Outer Limits of "period correct"
 

What does "period correct" mean to people? A component that was available in the precise year a bike was built? Within a few years after? Within a few years before AND after? As an example, I just built up a new set of wheels with NOS Normandy hubs from 1980 and Mavic G40 rims (also NOS) from around that same time. Even NOS galvanized spokes, actually. I'm using them as replacement wheels for a bike made in about 1964 that originally had steel Sturmey-Archer rims and Normandy hubs. That would not have been an unreasonable upgrade for a 16-year-old bike. So does that make it period correct, sorta, kinda? This is of more or less academic interest to me, but just wondering.

+1/-2 years, as that's what components would have still been laying around for the assemblers to put on the bike, and you might have had a frame left from the previous year w/a newer group available. Although some low production high$ frames might have been hanging around a shop for a few years, so on those you could have groups 3 years or newer than the frame.

But if you have a postCPSC frame ('78), then you couldn't put non-CPSC components on it, even only one year older, and be period correct.

YMMV.

And my bikes don't often qualify.

:thumb:

Within 1 or 2 years of the frames production. A 1985 frameset with 1980 components is NOT period correct.

Yeah, but it depends on the size (measured by output) of the manufacturer. The smaller the manufacturer's output, the greater the tolerance.

Case in point: I have a Counterpoint Presto, on which most of the components date to 1990-1991, which is approximately when the bike was made. But the brakes are from 1984. I have no doubt that some parts have been replaced (including one of the mismatched Sun Mistral rims), but I believe the brakes are original.

I'd say generally about 3 years, or what I'd hang on the frame when I bought it or as I
upgraded it (i.e. swapping to modolo brakes from the lamberts that came on my Aerospace Pro).

Marty

On the other hand, if the "new" hubs and rims look similar to the origainals I'd call it a "sensitive" update. My old Raleigh "Sports" 3-speed might just get new rims now that I feel adequate to building wheels myself. The weight diference will be nice and the superior braking will be very nice. Not much point to a bike with fenders you can't ride on wet roads! (Of course, the steel "Westricks" will be stored and not trashed ) :)

I still wouldnt call that period correct.

I tend to feel that until a product changes its look its still perfectly legit as being "Period Correct"

for example the 2nd Generation Suntour Cyclone Derailleurs were basically identical from 1976-1983. I'd consider any year 2nd Generation Suntour Cyclone derailleur to be period correct on a bike built during that time frame.

or another example might be the ever present Weinmann 650 and 750 "Vainquer 999" centerpull calipers. The things basically went unchanged for 15 years. Hell even the new Dia-Compe copies could be passed off as Weinmann's if you changed the sticker on em.

And then there's always the possiblilty of something being exactly period correct, but just looking wrong for some reason or another.

DI2 on a second-gen Paramount.

:p

Jokes aside, I'm pretty much content with components dated 5 years newer (or older) then the frameset, provided those components haven't changed from the year of the bicycle I'm working on. For instance, I'm reluctant to mount post-CPSC Nuovo Record components on a frameset made prior to 1978, or pre-CPSC components on a post-'78 machine.

I do "period customizing" a bit more leniently, so long as the components are unusually well finished and suited to the task - case in point, my 1982 Schwinn Superior with Dia-Compe NGC 450 brakes (which, from what I've heard, didn't debut until 1985).

http://www.jaysmarine.com/82_superior_11.jpg

-Kurt

Interesting! So a bike could be all original, and still not period correct. But yes, now that I think about it, you are right. When a bike leaves the factory it is original, but not necessarily period correct. When we C&V people restore a bike, we can chose to make it as close to original as possible, or period correct, or whatever.

Richard Sachs' restoration of his '71 Masi GC takes period correct (at least to me) to a whole new level.

"Because of my initial interest to replicate the original bicycle I only picked parts which were the exact one from the 1971 bicycle. Another one of my challenges was that each and every part to be placed on the restoration should be brand new and taken from its original packaging. "

Apparently even the patent logo is correct on his Campy parts:

"In all the correct places on these parts the words "Patent Campagnolo" appear rather than 'Brev. Campagnolo'."

And as Lotek pointed out, you may want or need to upgrade certain parts. For example, my 1980 Masi came to me with Super Champion rims, rather than the more-normal Martanos. Why? we really don't know, but if I had owned that bike as new and was (as my previous owner) using it in the local crit series, I would need to keep it running like a top. If teh Martano rims became trashed, I'd get a good quality but cost-effective rim like a Mavic or an S/C to replace the Martanos.

It wasn't normal back in those days for owners to just buy the part the factory had used, no matter who the builder was.

The builder could even have been the LBS, since Masi sold frames from time to time, rather than bikes.

In the same vein, it would be less appropriate but at times necessary, to use a modern rim on this bike, like a Mavic Reflex rather than the Martano or a S/C -- but Mavic GP4's turn up with fair regularity.

There's period correct and there's matched dates. If a bike has matched dates, the components would be very close to the year of the frame. I look at period correct as being "around that time". The three to four year time frame seems reasonable to describe a period.
Within the timeframe of the manufacture of the bike comes under matching the dates so that it appears it was manufactured that way or modified by an LBS at or before time of sale.

Different people have different definitions on what is "period correct". My personal take on it is, it's OK to put it on my bike as long as it was available within the 5 years before or after the bike was built. I also like to have a bike that is modded up period correct instead of stock period correct. Most "serious" bikers do mods to their bikes anyway, from the day they roll it out of the dealer's shop.
Here my "period correct, modded 84 Peugeot PSV"
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44...R/DSC02003.jpg
All parts on the bike, except for the pedals, tires, and bar tape is what was available between 1980 to 1990.
This bike just wouldn't look right with components like deep section aero rims, Carbon flite saddle, Ergo shaped handlebars (although Modolo did come out with them in the late 80's....but they're so damn ugly IMO!).

Chombi
84 Peugoet PSV
85(?) Vitus Carbone Plus 7 (coming soon!):rolleyes:

Nothing unusual - I do this too, especially when it comes down to the crankarm dustcaps and chainrings.

-Kurt

Tolerance is needed. My Colnago is mostly period correct as purchased, but the crank arms are different date codes! I liked the first response. I would think that any part that was 3 years older would be OK but newer bothers me as how would it get put on the bike at production?

There seems to be a general agreement that "period correct" means "okay to have components a little older than the manufacture of the frame/bike, but nothing newer." Is that about right? Of course, things do break and wear out over time, but if someone--say a previous owner--replaced a derailleur with a newer/better/different model then the bike is no longer period correct? Even if it's an upgrade made just a few years on? In other words, PC means "what it it looked like the day the original owner brought it home, or might reasonably have looked like if there had been some fiddling with or substitution of some components either before it left the bike shop or in the owner's garage or basement immediately thereafter?"

I try to be mostly PC with my bikes, but since they are riders I make concessions with some of the consumable parts - chain, tires, etc. I prefer clipless pedals also. But most/all of the main components are both PC and appropriate to the make/model (campy w/ bianchi and paramount, shimano/suntour w/ fuji, etc.)

Factories sometimes shipped bikes with different date codes, Campy crank arms seem to be among the worst "offenders", or at least caught and reported as such.

Ok now I am going to contridict myself! There may be room for products that are newer that look like the old stuff. VO Alum Clincher rims that look like knock offs of the Rigida rims. We could get really anal and say the brake pads should be period correct. The counter argument might be the products KoolStop offers that are direct replacements. In many ways these last two examples could be argued as period correct but not period exact.

There is the other side of called restoration which would be like Sach example stated previously. So an extreme might be that any componants used that were available in the period would be acceptable.

I tried that, but there's too much kid in me, and not enough patience for period-correct.
If it fits, and I like it, it's on it, especially wheels.

And as an investment they were a failure, well at least the one he sold. That is typical for Vintage bikes though, they are rarely worth the cost of comprehensive restoration.
I like them a lot, and most of mine are fun to own, but as investments? Not very good.

so is it against the law to put carbon wheels and record 10speed + campy deltas on a early 90 al cdale frame?

Damn it Cudak...Are ever going to stop flaunting your Paramounts? I'm glad you don't boast. But you sure do a damn good job flaunting them. I was going to buy a pair of those Diacompe brakes you have but the price was 30$ and they weren't in pristine condition.

Never ;)

Might as well compensate for all the newbies who don't post pics, eh? :p

I'd use them in a heartbeat.

The Schwinn Stingray collectors already do that nonsense. They also invented the concept of using NOS, galvanized Union spokes on the "best" of their restorations. Bring the smelling salts.

-Kurt