Identify an old road frame
 

hello to all of you i need all the help you can to identify this frame please.It came to my hands some days ago,i know it has nervex lugs and i have read some things abaut it,it looks like a peugeot to me but i can´t find any peugeot with this quind of drop auts and with this exactly nervex lugs can you all help me to identify this one?Thanks best regards.















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More photos.....



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Do you have any of the components that came on it?

It must be really old, like 1940's or early 50's, with those dropouts....

No i dont have my friend not even the fork just the frame why do you say it´s 40 or 50 because of the dropouts?Does they identify one era?Thanks best regards.

I'm thinking the dropouts might be specific to an internally geared hub or some early type of derailleur. Most high end modern bicycles have a derailleur hanger on the right rear dropout; and these haven't changed much in the last 40 or 50 years. Before that, there were a lot of innovative designs, most of which were produced only for a few years.

To be sure, I don't know what yours is, but I think it must be from before the 60's.

Very nice, too. The lugs are beautiful.

I olso have this other one with the head badge this i´m all most sure is a peugeot cause it has the chainweels mounted but dont know the year to i wold like to rebuild them but i wold like to see some photos of catalogs or anyone that has one reconstructed.Thanks best regards.



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More photos with the chainweels.



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that dropout (8th photo) almost look like an Osgear variation to me.
I'd say 40's or 50's at the latest.
Here's an example of one
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...osgear-hs3.jpg
there are some old (1930's) Peugeot catalogs here:
http://www.peugeotshow.com/

Marty

Is it possible that the frame is a pc10?The only thing that does not point this way is the lugs that by that time were not nervex i think.Thanks best regards.

here's a clue. That is an osgear dropout.

<edit> Well, duh. Marty has that covered</edit>

what are the bottom bracket cup sizes?

Wat do you mean with bothom braket size?Like we use to say today 68mm or 73mm or in some road frames 70 mm,is that you ask me?Thanks for helping best regards.

Luker, yours is a better illustration of the Osgear. more like the Op's bike.

Yes I think he means exactly like 68mm, or 70mm etc.

really interesting frame, but I've never seen long spearpoint Nervex lugs that look like those (and they are very impressive, too). Clearly the BB shell is marked "nervex", and it's undoubtebly 68mm wide, tho it could be French or British threading (you may have to remove the BB unit to find that out). Until that threading is known I wouldn't rule out it's being British (but I'm sure no expert on bikes this old). I associate lug work like that with olden British builders.

I think those are Nervex Serie Legere lugs with bilaminate for the spearpoint (I think that's how they
did that). Fairly common procedure on old british bikes, viking, claude butler and gillot all used this
technique.
I really think you need to contact Hillary Stone (he's a member here, same username) or
Norris Lockley on Classic Rendezvous List about this one, as they are authorities on British bikes.
The other group you might contact is http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/index.html

Marty

It's old for sure. 1940's early 1950.s latest. Kinda looks french to me.

Good advice, and Norris also has posted to this forum, tho he hasn't been active in ages...both of them are very well-versed on old French bikes, too...I'm sure it could be either FR or UK.

Hello in fact the frame is a 68mm bottom bracket and the only cup that was on the frame the drive side one tighth to the left in the direction of the rear weel.Thanks best regards for you all thanks for the help.

based on this^ it sounds like the fixed cup is LH thread. If so then it's British and so's the frame...I'd still throw this to Hillary and Norris, they could have a lot more info for you.

I was thinking British as well. I could swear that I've seen those extra long lugs somewhere when I was researching the Claud Butler, but after I retraced my steps as well as I could last night, I came up with nada. Sorry.

Pump peg behind the seat tube, that's old.

Interesting bike.

Hello my friends i`ve been looking all over the internet in all the places you indicate to me an the more similar frame i can see is the 1936 peugeot pc10,the reason i say this is because of the pump pegs behind the seat tube an the drop auts format,but the catalogs i´ve opened from that time were not a photo but only a drawing the only thing that i cant see are the lugs so i don´t know if it matches or no.best regards for you all thanks for the help.

The first frame is not I think British, the brake bridge is unlike anything I have seen on a British frame. My suggestion is that it might be Swiss - many Swiss frames incorporate slightly fancy lugs...

very good point^ I had not considered it, but it's convincing to me: same LH thread on the fixed cup as British, but now the OP should check things like the OD of the tubes and get a true reading of the thread pitch in the BB shell...tho I wonder if, being this old, that "metric tubing standards" might not have applied (?).

Thanks my friends i will go to measure the od of the tubes,and post here later,the bothom braket lugs have engraved nervex but evething i have seem from nerver doest have that spearpoint i i didn´t see any welding at the lug to do tht spear to,another thing that is strange are the uper stays at the end in bullet shape the moast part of them are faced moast usualy painted at that area,what do you think i´ts aut of question that cold be that peugeot i mention above,dos anyone as a photo of that model restored?Thanks best regards to you all.