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-   -   nomenclature pet peeves (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/602446-nomenclature-pet-peeves.html)

noglider 11-12-09 02:41 AM

nomenclature pet peeves
 
If you aren't a pedantic wordy like me, you won't find this thread interesting.

My first peeve: the word groupset.

If you're still with me, follow me a bit: a group is a set of items that belong together. A set is also several items that belong together. What is the difference? None! So when you combine those words, it's adding extra verbiage to add no meaning at all.

I think I'll take a drive in my automobilecar. Then when I go to bed, I'll take off my glassesspectacles.

Oh, while I'm ranting, the Italian word for group is gruppo. So don't add a letter 'o' to the English word group. There's no such word as groupo.

noglider 11-12-09 02:42 AM

And who was the ignoramus who called this thread "nomenclature pet peeves" when it should have been "pet nomenclature peeves?"

mkeller234 11-12-09 02:53 AM

You forgot to mention tipo hubs!

Metzinger 11-12-09 02:56 AM

Knock-knock.
Who's there?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4...ns/grouper.jpg

mkeller234 11-12-09 03:03 AM

For whatever reason when I really cannot stand something, like a commercial, I HAVE to watch it when it comes on T.V. or I won't stop thinking about it.

That said... internet forum chatter may be a similar situation for you.

noglider 11-12-09 03:04 AM


Originally Posted by mkeller234 (Post 10025042)
You forgot to mention tipo hubs!

I mentioned Tipo hubs in another thread. I'll repeat that rant for the benefit of those who didn't see it before.

Tipo is the Italian word for type. Campagnolo had some sort of hub, and I don't know what it was called, and when they came out with a new model, they called it Nuovo Tipo, which merely means "new type." It's a boring, generic name, but it meant something.

And when Americans refer to this model by calling it Tipo hubs, they are saying "type hubs". Sounds like a word is missing. Because it is.

noglider 11-12-09 03:05 AM


Originally Posted by mkeller234 (Post 10025057)
For whatever reason when I really cannot stand something, like a commercial, I HAVE to watch it when it comes on T.V. or I won't stop thinking about it.

That said... internet forum chatter may be a similar situation for you.

I'd be better off if these things didn't irritate me. But it is fun to write about it.

banjo_mole 11-12-09 03:13 AM

My least favorite thing of all time... Peddles.

Enough said.

old and new 11-12-09 04:04 AM

derailer NOT deuraliuerealer whatever the "correct" word is

mkeller234 11-12-09 04:39 AM


Originally Posted by old and new (Post 10025100)
derailer NOT deuraliuerealer whatever the "correct" word is

haha... I spell it both ways. I am not really sure why.

cyqlist 11-12-09 05:17 AM


Originally Posted by old and new (Post 10025100)
derailer NOT deuraliuerealer whatever the "correct" word is

I don't think we'll ever see that spelled the same way by everyone. The compromise version that I like and have seen used by some reputable sources is "derailler". Approved by Sheldon, too.

Trakhak 11-12-09 05:29 AM

Why not let the French, who invented the item in question, decide how to spell derailleur?

And on the topic of redundancies: Shimano SIS index system.

jgedwa 11-12-09 06:25 AM

How about "alloy" for aluminum?

j

cyqlist 11-12-09 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by Trakhak (Post 10025181)
Why not let the French, who invented the item in question, decide how to spell derailleur?

Then that would be "dérailleur".

And we should pronounce it "day-RYE-EUH", right?

(see http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer.html)

Metzinger 11-12-09 07:11 AM


Originally Posted by jgedwa (Post 10025270)
How about "alloy" for aluminum?

How about "aluminium" for aluminum?
As far as I know, only two backwards countries say 'num'. I'm from one of them.

akcapbikeforums 11-12-09 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by cyqlist (Post 10025280)
Then that would be "dérailleur".

This thread just keeps getting funnieur. :)

rhm 11-12-09 07:17 AM

Oh, boy!

The key is to remember what language we're speaking.

Let's take one of my favorite pet peeves, octopus.

It ends in -us, like many Latin words that form a plural with -i; thus one focus, two foci. Note, foci is an English word with a Latin etymology. Its Latin etymology is important because it explains the form of the plural, foci.

So some people think the plural of octopus is octopi. Ooops.

Octopus is derived from the Greek: octo (eight) + pous (foot) = octopous . If we were speaking Greek, the plural would be octopedes. And if we were writing it in Greek, we would use the Greek alphabet, which looks strange and has some letters we don't even have in English, like omegas and psis and all kinds of wierd ****.

But we're speaking and writing English here, so we use the anglicized version octopus, which takes an English plural, octopuses. Its Greek etymology is fascinating and all, but is completely irrelevant to the form of the English plural.

Now, in English, we have a word for a certain type of second rate Campy hub that has eight round holes in the flanges and no oil port. The word is tipo. It is derived from the Italian, and the cognoscenti can explain its etymology (see above) but we need call it the nuovo tipo only if we're speaking Italian. Sorry, Tom!

We also have a word for that crazy machine that moves the chain around. Being a French invention, we use a word derived from the French, derailleur. Since we are speaking English, we pronounce it in English, with no "you" in it, unless we are feeling pretentious, in which case we put in the "you" to show how smart we are (I always put in the "you"). When we write it, we write it in the English alphabet. If we were speaking French, we would pronounce it the way the French do, and if we were writing French, we would write it in the French alphabet, which as accents and cedilles and whatever.

Originally Posted by cyqlist (Post 10025280)
Then that would be "dérailleur".

It's not a big deal, of course, so out of respect for Sheldon "the infallible" Brown (may peace be upon him), we try to look the other way when we see derailler and other misspellings. This is the internet, after all, and not everyone is infallible.

There are, sadly, some English speaking people who feel insecure about our language's bastard heritage, and want to deny the foreign origin of words, and so try to change their spelling to hide it. So, for example, the word provenance, a perfectly good English word with a French etymology, sometimes becomes provenience. There is only one good reason for this, namely to provide a convenient rhyme for convenience.

norskagent 11-12-09 07:31 AM

1" threaded stem, 25.4mm clamp.

Bianchigirll 11-12-09 07:48 AM

WOW I thought this was going to be a rant about things like calling a stem a gooseneck or refering to the deerailluereres as gears. perhaps we should has glossary thread somewhere.

actualluy I am sometimes guilty of quickly typing 'Alloy' when refering to Aluminium although I do know that almost all metals are an alloy of some type.

one thing that really bothers me is when someone says Aluminum does not rust. rust and corrision are very similar just like a purse and 'European Shoulderbag'


Tom I suspose there is no chance that "Macho Man" is your favorite song? *giggle*

Oldpeddaller 11-12-09 08:04 AM

Just so long as someone doesn't try to use the "breaks" on their bicycle to slow it down. Taken literally, that could be a hazardous thing to do.

cyqlist 11-12-09 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 10025375)
We also have a word for that crazy machine that moves the chain around. Being a French invention, we use a word derived from the French, derailleur. Since we are speaking English, we pronounce it in English, with no "you" in it, unless we are feeling pretentious, in which case we put in the "you" to show how smart we are (I always put in the "you"). When we write it, we write it in the English alphabet. If we were speaking French, we would pronounce it the way the French do, and if we were writing French, we would write it in the French alphabet, which as accents and cedilles and whatever.

It's not a big deal, of course, so out of respect for Sheldon "the infallible" Brown (may peace be upon him), we try to look the other way when we see derailler and other misspellings. This is the internet, after all, and not everyone is infallible.


I solved the problem by converting all my bikes to hub gears. :)

Reynolds 11-12-09 08:14 AM

"Selle" saddle.

rhm 11-12-09 08:15 AM


Originally Posted by cyqlist (Post 10025566)
I solved the problem by converting all my bikes to hub gears. :)

+1

But then I rescued a PX-10 that was headed for the recycler, and I decided to try that crazy French stuff again anyway!

bbattle 11-12-09 08:19 AM

"irregardless" people who use this non-word should be shot.
"loose" instead of "lose"
"breaks" instead of "brakes" Hooked on Phonics = can't spell worth a flip

"So I bought this here pista track bike the other day." :(

Not only was it the same thing, it was the exact same thing. ??

Today's tendency to turn nouns into verbs is quite annoying. "Incentivize"? But in Shakespeare's time triple negatives were common.

"alot" It should be two words, not one. A<space>lot.

Quite putting apostrophe s after a word to denote the plural form. Just an s or es is needed. Apostrophes indicate possession or a contraction.

The correct phrase is "I couldn't care less". To say "I could care less" indicates one does care somewhat; the opposite of what the writer wishes to convey.

The bottom bracket is somewhat confusing as it refers to a particular section of the bicycle frame as well as the component that goes inside(of itself?).

Is it an axle or spindle? I've always used spindle to describe the metal rod to which the crankset is attached but othes use axle.

Group, groupe, gruppo? I suppose it depends upon whether one is talking about Shimano, Huret or Campagnolo.

One nice aspect of English is its ability to simply acquire any word it wants from any other language and make it part of the English language. The French find this to be a horrible concept but they'll still order a 'hamburger' in Paris. But not if the language police are around. ;) It is perfectly acceptable to use the word derailleur instead of derailer, provided it is spelled correctly.

joe v 11-12-09 08:25 AM

Wasn't it Steve Martin who said 'Weird guys, the French, they've got a different word for everything!' :roflmao2: (or something along those lines)


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