I think the thing to remember is that the C&V threshold is a rolling threshold. Anything older than about 20 years is C&V material (at least potentially). The first generation of mountain bikes and hybrids are at the edge of that threshold. I have a 1994 Nishiki hybrid that seemed thoroughly modern when I acquired it only last year, but seems to be slipping into C&Vness before my eyes. I posted a thread not long ago discussing whether first-gen hybrids might be the next wave in the C&V world.

There will always be guys coming into middle age that pine for the bikes of their youth.

Dude, you're the Henny Penny of C&V, and you're not even 20!

This is true for just about any hobby/interest I've ever pursued.

This is part of the equation, certainly, but it makes me wonder.

I'm 28, and I don't lust after anything but sweet C&V rides. Sure, I'm fast and skinny (currently) so when I looked at the $6400 di2-equipped Specialized at the bike store yesterday I certainly had the thought of "man, I could crush my friends on that thing". But it was lust of a purely functional variety. I thought the bike was more than hideous - and the new Dura-Ace looks so plasticy now that I far prefer (the look of) earlier incarnations.

I didn't grow up on old roadbikes and one day awaken to find the bikes of my youth replaced by crabon fibre jewelry-machines. And while I remember reading a post here yesterday about there being no soul or value inherent in intimate objects, I disagree. I want to live in an old house. I listen to vinyl. I refuse to write songs on anything but old guitars. I read history.

I figured that this anachronistic desire was something of my own, part retrogrouch, part nostalgic sentamentalist, part visual artist. From my perspective, the bicycling industry peaked in the early 90s: the bikes looked cooler, and before hybrids and MTBs took over, it seemed that you could get a pretty-decent entry-level roadbike (again my nostalgicism gets the best of me, I'm sure entry-level roadbikes are probably cheaper and better now).

I have the Felt catalog at my computer currently, and looking through it just makes me mad. (The more I type the more I realize I'm a fact-averse class-envying retrogrouch, like most retrogrouches). I just don't want to be a part of that material-based subculture.

What makes me think I'm not totally off my rocker here is my friend network and an experience I had last week. I have one friend who is wholly into modern bikes - and is not a huge fan of C&V. His dad runs a bike store. He's a seriously competitive athlete. But all of my other friends are way into old lugged-steel. I took my 88 Schwinn Circuit and 88 Trek 360 into my LBS last week and the entire service department was enamored with both bikes. I mean, totally enamored. They all were talking amongst themselves about how great the bikes were, even the lowly Trek 360. "Lugged steel!" They said. "Can't get anything like that now!" they said. And certainly, you can, but you'd pay more than I did for the Trek...

Bicycling has gotten too tech-oriented. Reading about bikes and doing your due-dilligence now is like preparing to buy high-end audio equipment. And priced similarly. Why do you think a "brand" like Surly has been so ridiculously successful?

Apologies for my long-winded observations. What I'm trying to say is that bicycle manufacturers are missing out on a large part of their potential audience by being so technocratic. Maybe no bicycle manufacturer can fill the niche people like myself fit into. I think we'll find out with the pre-fab fixed-gear market-grab.

Ever since I had to give up buying bikes and parts over the past few months, I've found that people in the village have been giving them to me,rather than hire a skip to clear that old shed or bother loading the car with all that dirty stuff and taking it down the tip. Last weekend I filled my estate car (station wagon) from floor to roof with frames, wheels and boxes of bits - only a few high end parts and all really grimy but enough to keep me wrenching for months without troubling e-bay. "Free-bay" is much more fun!!!

You haven't been keeping up with the vintage MTB scene. Why not do some research first. I'll help you

An excellent forum on high end MTBs

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=39

Here's a thread on a MTB that recently sold for over $12K, more than any Vintage Campy equipped bike I've seen.

Here's a link to the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Remember, that's a frame only.

Vintage MTB prices are just soaring. Sure there's some garage sale deals but they're few and far between.

I haven't a clue. As far as the market for C&V road bikes, we drive it up ourselves with our own enthusiasm, but that's the way it is. If we want to communicate with each other, we'll have to deal with more people becoming aware of C&V. I'm sure not planning to go back to where there was almost zero information, zero parts, zero bikes, and so on.

Blame the internet, or thank it.

Still plenty of bikes out there.

+1. Nicely put.

Yep, Nick, it is. The move to snipeing low priced Postal OCLVs has already started.

tcs

With this new forum skin, it is. :p

-Kurt

I think the real sweet spot right now is in mid-level stuff- both bikes and components. You can still get pretty good deals on Shimano 105/600/RX100 drive trains and brakes (and their Suntour counterparts), decent steel and aluminum frames, wheelsets and whatever.

The high end stuff is stupid crazy- too many ignorant people selling filthy & abused junk for way more than it's worth just because it says DA or Campy, priced at the same level as the guy who put together a meticulous restoration. And at that (as others have said here) it's geeting hard to find exactly what you want.

The low end stuff is way overpriced for what it is (if it says Shimano, it MUST be worth a bundle) and is often tied to a Wally World bike or something that's been left out in the rain for years.

But the mid level stuff is...sweet. Been buying as much as I have room for in parts and pieces and then matching them all into groups for future frame -up builds. Lots of good 105 and 600 out there from the late 80's that looks nice and works perfectly if you're into DT shifters and freewheels.

I've got enough bikes and parts right now to do 9 or 10 builds. Probably half of them are pre-sold to buyers who like the idea of a 20+ year old bulletproof road bike that rides as good as a new bike costing three or four times as much as I charge. Plus they get to mix and match components or upgrade to a level of component that wasn't available on the bike when it was new.

+10 And other than a few really high end vintage brands, most mid grade vintage bikes are still a compelling bargain compared to new bikes. A bubble is when the classic far exceeds comparable modern alternatives. Like the Hemi 1960s cars, which all of a sudden were selling for $250K, when a state of the art brand new Corvette can be had for $65K.

You can buy a really sweet vintage racing bike for $200 to $300, a bargain compared to entry level new bikes that start at $800 or more. Mid grade vintage bikes can be had for just slightly more than a cheap Xmart bike. When the mid level vintage bikes sell for as much or more than a mid grade modern road bike, then we are certainly in the middle of a bubble.

Agreed. I stopped in a LBS today and took a minute to check out some of the new bikes in the $800-$1200 range. That's two or three times the price of one of my very nice late 80's totally rebuilt bikes with mid level components- and maybe an extra $100 or so for a fresh powder coat and decals if it needs it.

Got to be honest...I wouldn't take one of those new bikes home. Took a close look at the finish work -more paint than polished alloy- and the details just aren't as compelling. If it doesn't make you want to polish it, I'm not interested.

I think the evolving technology tends to scare poeple away from mountain biking, it requires deep pockets to keep pace with the latest and greatest 29ers, hydraulic discs, unobtainium frames and full suspension xc rigs. Most of the guys I ride with have kept pace with that. I tend to be the C&V guy with turn of the century steel frame (Reynolds 853), 26" wheels and rim brakes.

As for the C&V road bikes, prices will continue to go up as our "hot spots" for finding bargains become more popular. I truly believe that this is an exciting time to be involved with bicycles due to the current face of our worldwide economy, as many people are expiriencing radical lifestyle changes.

Yes, shiny polished bits look great and I love them. BUT!!!! My newer bike has painted shimano 105 parts and I love them.... a whole whole whole lot. They are not as pretty but they are so easy to wipe down after riding. They get the most mileage and I don't fuss over how shiny they are.

My local bike club has members with some very pricey rides, things I can hardly afford to lay my eyes on. I have to admit, there are a few I lust for. Modern bikes are not all ugly in my opinion.

I know for a fact that the reason why road bikes are going up in price locally is because a new generation of twenty/thirty somethings who never have ridden any of them before (grew up in the mountain bike fad era) have gotten on one and freak out because of how effortlessly fast it seems you can go in comparison with the ol' cruizer/clunker/mtbs.

Couple that with how hot these rocker chicks look in short skirts riding fixed gear road french bikes from the 70's and it seems everyone wants one.

True, Matt. The high priced stuff is very compelling. I was referring to the mid-level (or what's considered mid-level in today's market) bikes. And I understand that not everyone is turned off by painted components. It will be interesting to see what they look like 20+ years from now...

Ah! I can show you... here is my 20 year old Shimano 105 brake caliper. Granted, I think it was fairly lightly used at the time that I bought it. You are probably right though, once they are scratched its all down hill from there.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/...d95ae8a1_o.jpg

Theres no use selling if the value is going up, I might regret it in the future. Minty suntour?

http://www.prettyshady.com/upload/fi...n/DSC_0143.JPG

While I think the trend is generally upward, I don't think that the bicycles that are the most valued today will necessarily be the most valued 15-20 years from now. If you look at the "crown jewels" of serious collectors' hoardes, they tend to be the bicycles that were at the pinnacle when they were in their teens and twenties. Sure, the Cinellis and Confentes and Herse's are going to remain expensive, but there will be some that become less sought after, and not command such high prices once their target market begins to expire.

Yup, the world is definitely coming to an end when that happens.

Sure, I have some of those too (and a box full of 600 Tricolor that look just as nice). No question that the stuff that was made 20+ years ago, painted or polished, is holding up fairly well (although it breaks my heart to see the condition of some of the RD's I come across- they look like they were dragged through a cornfield behind a truck). But it will be interesting to see whether what's being produced today looks as good in, oh, say 2030.

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old coot.

If you think road bike derailleurs look bad, take a look at some vintage XT derailleurs. That black finish looks terrible with a few scrapes on it.

Yeah, I have had some pretty crusty painted derialleurs. It is a same that there is nothing you can do to improve their appearance. I suppose if you don't care about originality you could just strip the paint and polish it up?

PS. I have been meaning to write back about the saddles but I have been working like a dog on my kitchen.