Quiz: what is this frame designed for?
 

I recently acquired a frame. Now the first thing most everybody does in that situation is take pictures and post them to C&V along with the make, model, year, etc. I'm not going to do that. Although I know all that, I will instead provide you the vital statistics - measurements, geometry and all - and see if you can guess what this frame is designed for, what era it comes from, and what it's country of origin is (and no I'm not going to tell you what bottom bracket threading it has :) ). Seems more interesting than just posting pictures. Let the analysis begin. Feel free to ask any questions.

Size, CTC, cm: 58.5cm
Seat Post Size, cm: 27.2
Seat Tube, cm: 58.5
Top Tube, cm: 58.5
Chainstays, cm: 43.5
Wheelbase, inches: 41.0 (104.1cm)
Head Tube Angle: 74°
Seat Tube Angle: 73.5°
Trail: 43.0mm
flop factor: 11.85 (low)

Weight is kind of tricky since it has the crank, bottom bracket, and headset still attached and I have neither the appropriate thin walled socket nor a headset remover to take them off but at any rate, the frame, fork, crank without rings, bottom bracket, and headset weigh 7.92-lbs.

Very interesting challenge...

Based on this, if I had a frame like that I would designate it and use it as a "Sports/Touring" (in my book) or a do it all bike. S/T or T proportions, shorter WB, which makes it S/T vs T. Not sure what it was marketed as, though ;)

and I am sure that it is not

But...
here lies the curveball you threw:

equal ST and TT (like a 70s italian racer), steeper angles (but both ways) and huge chainstays.

Unless this is a modern job, my first guess would be a french randoish type of bike and my second guess (am I allowed) would be a british "gentleman's" bike with a "touring" or "sports" designation.

yeah sports tourer and or randonneur style bicycle?

So I will ask

1. what size wheels
2. what is the headtube length
3.what kind of brakes is the frame designed for? (this might be giving away too much)

Braze on's? How many water bottle boss', does it have rack/fender eyelets? So far, it sounds like a mid/late 80's mountain bike.

are you sure the fork trail is 43? and that is not the rake? 43 for trail seems very small I have not looked at anyones answer yet. just the question

Not with equal size ST and TT... a hybrid maybe ;)

1. what size wheels: Original wheels would have been tubulars

2. what is the headtube length: Never thought to measure that before - 160mm

3.what kind of brakes is the frame designed for? (this might be giving away too much): haha, yeah, giving too much away. I'll give the reach - very roughly, 52mm reach in front and 60mm reach in rear so they aren't cantis

Yeah, I believe trail is how far the actual contact point of the tire sits behind the theoretical contact point of a line along the steering axis to the ground. I set the bike up, placed a big sheet of paper under the front wheel and fixed a straight metal rod along the upper part of the fork to the groud and marked that. Then used a straight edge and 90 degree angle to mark the position of the axle and thus the contact patch and measured it at 43mm.

No braze-ons what-so-ever. Single set of eyelets front and rear.

oh RATS I got booted off line. my guess was for a track bike. I still have not actually seen any answers I did however see your reply to my question plus the one about brazeons. but I was leaning towards a older track bike before I saw that.


OH ---- I didn't see the eyelets! :( :( see that is what I get for being honest *giggle*

OH yes I missed the brakes too :(

OK, some more clues...it's not modern and it is a road bike of some kind so you can rule out the MTB, Hybrids, Track and all that.

Edit: Oh, one more thing...chain stays are round (not oval) and slightly crimped for tire clearance. Max space between the stays where the tire passes through is 40mm so you could fit a 35mm tire in there but oem was tubular, probably 23-25mm.

Porteur?

Dude, you are waaaay off. :)

British Road-path?

So the complete opposite of a working bike, eh? Geometry seems about right for a porteur, and I could just picture you toting loaves of bread on your front rack!

im guessing old 60s or 70s french road racing bike.

I'm facinated by the many responses from those thinking it's a French bike of some sort. The initial respondant was closer to the mark.

ok. Then let me try to nail it a tad more:

70s
Raleigh
Competition/(Team)Professional/International

Nope.

OK, next clue...it's Italian.

is it a randonoweurere? How is that spelled again?

Italian? With that big of a tail?

Patteli? or a Bianchi Turismo/super Turismo or a weird a$$ Olmo. All I can think right now

Hmmm...I went back and checked it again to be sure and this time I measured 43.2mm for the chainstay which could just be a matter of where I have the axle in the dropout. A mid-60's model of the same bike has chain stays of 45.7mm (it's sitting in the garage).

this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3503/...05f781a0_o.jpg

which, is the same bike as the following, albeit hipsterized

http://www.twistcomm.com/Bikes/Botte...aRightSide.jpg

We have a winner! It is that exact frame! (Well, not that EXACT frame but the same make, model, general time period). A '69 - '74 era Bottecchia Professional. As Italian as possible. I'm surprised at how many people guessed French.

But not the same as the second bike you showed - the frame in question was built as a Professional Model but was also used for the Giro d'Italia and 2nd gen Gran Turismo. The other frame you showed was used for the De Luxe, Special, and 1st gen Gran Turismo. I have a couple of those too but haven't taken the measurements in any detail yet. I believe they are a bit more relaxed in geometry.