Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Robbie has some very interesting theories about the the Cinelli Centurion

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Robbie has some very interesting theories about the the Cinelli Centurion

Old 12-21-09, 10:44 AM
  #1  
RFC
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
RFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 4,466

Bikes: many

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Robbie has some very interesting theories about the the Cinelli Centurion

Not to put you on the spot, but go for it, Robbie.
RFC is offline  
Likes For RFC:
Old 12-21-09, 11:58 AM
  #2  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
OK, some of it has to do with Centurion, in general, and most with that Italian-made model that generally drove me nuts until last night about 6:30.....

After reading a bunch of posts, a couple of old magazine articles someone sent, and some correspondence from a few folks via velospace, I'm coming at it from a consumer prospective, with a little intuition, hunch, and some plain guessing. Read if you want, and take shots, maybe we'll find out some better info than my assumptions.

Centurion was busy importing Japanese bikes. and about this time was dropping Suntour components to move to Shimano. They had just stopped spec'ing the beautiful Turbo model, had the '84 Comp TA coming off line for triathletes in favor of the '85 Ironman. They also had the Prestige coming out, basically a Japanese version of an Italilan bike (Prestige tubing years before other brands offered it). Other than the Prestige being a pretty blatant Tange version of the Equipe, there seemed to be no indications Centurion, or WSI (the importing firm) was even thinking of things across the Atlantic.

Cinelli had sold his factory, workers, and name to the Columbus family, who would continue to make the Super Corsa. Perhaps, but in my mind, probably, he had a non-compete clause. He also had, in the back of his mind, a bike he wanted to produce, and maybe in the front of his mind, dissatisfaction wtih the finish quality of the '84 Super Corsa that bore his name. A couple people mentioned to me that the initial reviews of the SC were not as favorable as hoped. I simply don't know. There had to be some kind of bike or frame in the works, because those things took time to plan. Mr. Cinelli never would say who made the frame. Someone at CyclArt, I think, spoke with him, and he denied being the producer of the frame.

Cinelli had to have been already talking to Centurion about producing a European version of what they offered from Japan: a quality bike for a reasonable price. Someone made the frame for Centurion, with the common Cinelli bottom bracket shell, the lugs from the Super Corsa (though not chromed at the seat post), and Cinelli-stamped brake bridge and seat stays. It shared the SL tubing with the Super Corsa, though the fork was lugged and 100% chrome, but painted, as was the chromed L chain stay. Anyone who keeps their hands on bikes immediately recognizes the Equipe as Italian, just as a Tange frame "feels" Japanese. It would be logical to have an Italian frame, with Italian componenents, be made in Italy, while those lavender decals, (as Centurion-themed as you can get, including the odd colors), had to be added there. It would make no sense to produce the bike in Japan, and even less to ship it from Italy to Japan just to get decals from an American importing firm. The cracking that occurred to the decals, almost unique to those decals, lends to the idea that they were made elsewhere. They didn't fall off like Italilan decals, they didn't hold up well like Japanese decals, but they deteriorated like the hood stripes on a Gremlin....so American.

Very likely to keep costs down, the Equipe's only Campy items were NR shifters, FD/RD. Ofmega supplied the headset, bb, crank set, Miche the hubs, laced to Fiamme Hard Silver tubulars. The saddle was Cinelli Volare suede, the bars/stem were Cinelli, and the seatpost was Gipiemme. The freewheel was 6-sp Regina, as was the chain, and the pedals were Ofmega Sintesi, composite mateirals that were also marketed by Avocet, (the composite was eventually used in Beretta pistol grips). I think the bike sold for $1195, and didn't do well. It was ugly by comparison to the Italian bikes at the time, was grey where the SC was red, and Centurion shipped it with horrendous lavender decals on the sides of the down tubes and the headbadge. Cinelli logo'd it as the Equipe on top of the down tube and on the L chain stay, and Made in Italy was labeled in 2 places.

Cinelli would never admit who or where the frames were made, but it was obvious the bike was made in Italy, and somewere along the line the Centurion decals were added. While it didn't sell well, the Super Corsa didn't, either, maybe because it was full Campy and therefore a lot more expensive. I also think it's safe to assume someone had to really convince an Italian builder to put those lavender decals on that bike. I can see no other way they would.

The mix of parts, though, is in keeping with Centurion's character at the time, finding good components at a low price and getting them onto the frames. It's almost like someone went shopping for Campy substitutes. Whether it was specifically to keep costs down or just to distinguish it from the SC, I don't know. I also can't understand why they didn't go with red, which would have looked tons better, and sold more. I suspect the market target was a consumer who wanted an Italian bike and couldn't fork out the $$ needed to get most of them of a certain quaility level. The Equipe may have been intended as a "fall back" choice,...not the full Campy or the red flash of the Super Corsa, but for a grand less, a pretty darned good Italian bike. Centurion later used that strategy well, when they sold a load of Lemans bikes to folks who couldn't afford the Ironman. One wonders if the bike was produced, in Italy, with Italian components, so similar to the SC, and so much cheaper, to make a point? Or was it just to clean up inventory, help out some other manufacturers, or just keep the boys working?

Centurion dropped it after one production run, but there are some odd birds out there that seem to have the Super Corsa fork, Equipe frame, and are in blue. Definitely, that's an interesting connection with that fork, and that frame. There is no good reason to "fake" a bike at the level of the Equipe, or even the SC, for that matter. No one knows where the blue ones came from, but at least two are known out there, and they are very similar to each other.

(Centurion dropped other higher end bikes during that same period, the all-DA Prestige, almost identical to the Equipe, but very Tange. They also dropped the Facet, their aluminum model (though the girls racing them remain dear to me, heh heh). The Turbo, mentioned elsewhere, too. Perhaps Centurion was casting about, trying to get a grip on what was selling, and simply specifying some pretty nice bikes as a result.)

Over the years, the Equipe's either got ignored, especially with the ugly colors, or snapped up by folks who spotted the Cinelli logos stamped onto the frame and the SL tubing decals. One guy in Maryland has a bunch, and wants a dear amout of money for them. I know of several in BF (poprad, Jan Nikolsen, A. Winthrop, JunkYardBike, myself). Of those, I think A.Winthrop and a gentleman from Atlanta have OEM models, and the others vary in some degree of re-do. I know that CyclArt did one in orange, probably more, and they've got a decal set made. There's a red one out there in photos, the owner unknown to me. I have built 2 "up" from OEM, a red one that's been posted here before, and the one I just finished. The red one was a commission re-do, and he really likes it. I only know of 7 outside the dealer in Maryland.

Why should anyone care? Well, it's simply interesting, this is the internet, and RFC asked me. Centurion didn't build bikes, but their lineup is firmly entrenched among the high quality Japanese bikes that many of us are fortunate enough to have now. There were a lot of those bikes coming across the Pacific, and Centurion wasn't the only US firm importing bikes (Schwinn?). Why they brought a bike across the Atlantic is intriguing. I'd sure like to know.

I'd like to sit down with the principals behind the Cinelli/Centurion Equipe, and find out what really went on. I doubt they thought it would be a topic in 2009. Of course, after that, I'd find out who was in charge of graphics and colors during the '80's...and ask what they were smoking then.....

I've got two Equipes under my belt, and remain convinced that a truly outstanding bike can be made of them, even with a price tag approaching $1000.

I'm thinking the period of "C&V" frames being built to compete with modern frames, for a fraction of the price, is just getting underway, albeit slowly. I look at the wide range of bikes in the "retro with STI/Ergo" thread, and remember what dahossman told me about his significant re-do of an Ironman..."you don't want to know the cost...." I'm starting to think, or already do, that the cost is pretty reasonable when a Tiagra entry model is $1200.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 12-21-09 at 12:23 PM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Likes For RobbieTunes:
Old 12-21-09, 12:49 PM
  #3  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,577
Mentioned: 600 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4418 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,424 Times in 1,568 Posts
Weiner, the man behind Centurion always had a fascination with Cinelli, or so it appears. The 1970s Centurion Professionals were Cinelli clones, right down to the stay arrangement and three-holed lugs. The earliest samples were even made by an ex-Cinelli employee working for Acer-Mex, who had their own Cinelli clone in the Windsor Professional.

While the Japanese were able to wrestle the low and mid range markets from the European in the 1970s, they encountered much more resistance trying to crack the high end market. Consequently, during the mid-1980s a number of US marketing brands including Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki contracted Italian manufacturers to build high end models, in an attempt to gain stronger foothold in the upscale market.

I don't know who built the Equipe but period ads clearly state that Cinelli employees supervised the production. Ashley and myself have debated what this actually means, with it being anything from having a Cinelli employee reside at the framebuilder's site and supervise all operations, right down to simply inspecting the finished product.

As noted, the paint and decals on Italian models had a poor reputation. Around this time, Ten Speed Drive started importing unfinished frames and had them painted and decaled in the USA. WSI may have used the same approach, though I have no objective evidence.

The Equipe's market objectives were a high end, all Italian bicycle for under $1000 US. To get Cinelli on aboard, offer all his bits and pieces and hit the target price, WSI could not offer an all Camapgnolo NR/SR bicycle. This would have cost several hundred dollars more. So they chose components from secondary manufacturers such as Ofmega and Universal. While some may argue that they are not as good as Campagnolo, they were at least very close and definitely a better bargain. Unfortunately, the area were it could have benefited most from Ofmega components were the derailleurs. The spec'd Nuovo Record were old and sub-performing compared to Ofmega's offerings of the period. However, customers often look only at derailleurs and assess the overall level of the bicycle based on them. WSI knew this, and rightly assumed that a Campagnolo Nuovo Record would bear more weight with the average customer looking for his first upscale bicycle. personally, I thought the bicycle was intelligently spec'd.

Sales however, are the prime indicator of success, and the quick disappearance of the Equipe from the lineup indicates sales did not go as well as hoped. The Italian bicycles from Lotus and Nishiki apparently did not sell well either. The general public erroneously considered them to be Japanese brands and were reluctant to buy anything other than what they considered to be the genuine article.

Last edited by T-Mar; 12-21-09 at 12:54 PM.
T-Mar is offline  
Likes For T-Mar:
Old 12-22-09, 04:11 AM
  #4  
dahoss2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bossier City, La
Posts: 628

Bikes: 70's Motobecane, 89 Centurion Ironman

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
I'm thinking the period of "C&V" frames being built to compete with modern frames, for a fraction of the price, is just getting underway, albeit slowly. I look at the wide range of bikes in the "retro with STI/Ergo" thread, and remember what dahossman told me about his significant re-do of an Ironman..."you don't want to know the cost...." I'm starting to think, or already do, that the cost is pretty reasonable when a Tiagra entry model is $1200.
To make my 89 Ironman modern 10 speed cost about $750 for a cheap set of wheels and a veloce group. I was in about $150 for the ironman so I ended up with a nice steel frame bike with Veloce for $900. I have about 4k miles on the bike since the upgrade and it is still going strong. Although I love the convenience of the brifters, the bike was just as good with the original downtube 7 speed shifters and components. Now I gotta find another vintage centurion frame to put that Suntour GPX set on lol!
dahoss2002 is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 07:24 AM
  #5  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,091

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1114 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 284 Posts
Now you guys almost have me wanting one. Shame that I'm not much younger than the shop owner in Maryland. He probably wants over $2K for one.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 07:30 AM
  #6  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,091

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1114 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 284 Posts
Now you guys almost have me wanting one. Shame that I'm not much younger than the shop owner in Maryland. He probably wants over $2K for one.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 11:49 AM
  #7  
Oregon Southpaw
Larger Chainring
 
Oregon Southpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Posts: 1,231

Bikes: 1988 Schwinn Circuit. Bike-Boom-Puegeot. First "real bike" Trek 720 Hybrid in gross disrepair.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I read this entire thread.

And there are no pictures.

Oregon Southpaw is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 12:17 PM
  #8  
poprad
Senior Member
 
poprad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In transit
Posts: 1,794

Bikes: 07 Vanilla, 98 IRD road frame built up with 25th Ann DA, Surly cross check with 105 comp, 78 Raleigh Comp GS, 85 Centurionelli

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 615 Times in 117 Posts
Hmmm...now I have to post mine again. A blatant ripoff fake Cinelli paint job, but a gorgeous one at that. I rebuilt it last year and went with the Campy monoplanar brakes, a unicanitor saddle and campy post, and the excellent Ofmega rear D. It's truly a cobble job of a build, but I love the look and ride of it.





[IMG]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/3264519263_c1a96c8e88_b.jpg[/IMG





[IMG]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/3120268308_8376f86270_b.jpg[/IMG

[IMG]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3253/3136836256_6676e4ba87_b.jpg[/IMG

So there you have it; certainly not a purebred Cinelli Italian race bike, defintely not Japanese design. She's kind of a weird hybrid and my only bike with tubulars, and I love it. I love the Ofmega parts, the pleasing lines, and the silky ride. I love that they only made them one year...and I love that I think I can claim to have coined the term "Centurionelli." So I don't have any hostorical info of worth to add, just some pics of a bike I ran across and spent way too much money on to keep...kind of like a beautiful woman.
poprad is offline  
Likes For poprad:
Old 12-22-09, 12:19 PM
  #9  
poprad
Senior Member
 
poprad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In transit
Posts: 1,794

Bikes: 07 Vanilla, 98 IRD road frame built up with 25th Ann DA, Surly cross check with 105 comp, 78 Raleigh Comp GS, 85 Centurionelli

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 615 Times in 117 Posts
It appears I am limited on pics, so the final ones:








Last edited by poprad; 12-22-09 at 12:22 PM.
poprad is offline  
Likes For poprad:
Old 12-22-09, 01:33 PM
  #10  
Rammer
Texas Sec. 545.401
 
Rammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: DFW, TEXAS
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Too bad you aren't selling. Posts like these are likely to drive up interest.
Rammer is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 01:49 PM
  #11  
JunkYardBike
Dropped
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Posts: 6,229
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Rammer View Post
Too bad you aren't selling. Posts like these are likely to drive up interest.
I think that may be the downside of all this chatter. Someone who turns up a Centurion Cinelli googles the words on the decals and comes up with these glowing threads, then sticks a $1000 price tag on the bike! We should communicate in secret until we own all known units (actually, we probably do, because we don't really know how many were produced, do we?), then talk them up and methodically release them for sale to the public.

Here's my 62 cm version, which came to me altered, and which I altered further. I'm beginning to think it's really too big for me. Anyone with a 60cm want to trade frames?



The 'rare' orange decal set:



JunkYardBike is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 03:45 PM
  #12  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
OK. Pictures.
This has a later generation Chorus, 2x8 Ergo.










Last edited by RobbieTunes; 12-22-09 at 05:43 PM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 05:41 PM
  #13  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
OK, more pictures.
This has an '89 2x7 Chorus group with the monoplaners, levers set to aero.




OK, pictures
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 05:48 PM
  #14  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
Some more pictures I found, courtesy of A.Winthrop, I think.

I believe this is one from CyclArt
Note the fork is different, more like the Super Corsa.
The odd blue Equipes that I've seen had this fork.
Likely, the fork was stripped to add the extra inch of chrome.
Every Equipe fork I've seen was all chrome (as is the Turbo and Prestige fork)

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 09-24-20 at 10:22 AM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 05:56 PM
  #15  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
A. Winthrop's OEM Equpe.
This whole thing is his fault, he told me about the one that became the red rebuild.
I saw the grey one I did on the BF Vintage Appraisal thread....

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
C-equipe.jpg (89.7 KB, 226 views)
File Type: jpg
Eqp_frnt.jpg (91.5 KB, 204 views)
File Type: jpg
Eqp_Crnk.JPG (77.5 KB, 208 views)
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 06:01 PM
  #16  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
The red one, "before"


The grey one "before"



All we're missing is Jan Nikolsen's red one. Atlanta Robert is not a BF member, but his is 54cm and OEM

I used JYB, poprad, and Jan Nikolsen as examples for my builds.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 09-24-20 at 10:22 AM.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 06:47 PM
  #17  
Oregon Southpaw
Larger Chainring
 
Oregon Southpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Posts: 1,231

Bikes: 1988 Schwinn Circuit. Bike-Boom-Puegeot. First "real bike" Trek 720 Hybrid in gross disrepair.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
WOW.

Not only was this thread an education, it was a gorgeous one at that.

[me want!]
Oregon Southpaw is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 07:05 PM
  #18  
RobbieTunes
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,384 Times in 894 Posts
Then, to add to the confusion, there's this model... https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ject-centurion

...which compares to the orange one above.... this may be the first one CyclArt did, prompting a call to Cinelli about it. .Imagine that.

The orange one, and a couple blue ones that have passed through eBay, could be early versions. I simply don't know. As Forrest would say, "and that's about all I have to say about that..." Probably more than enough, and thanks for listening.

RobbieTunes is offline  
Old 12-22-09, 07:23 PM
  #19  
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,091

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1114 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 284 Posts
Originally Posted by A.Winthrop View Post
.
Hi USAZorro,
.
Well, if you decide to bite the bullet, here's Larry Black's
contact information. ...
.
Thanks. I already knew who you meant, and know where his shops are. He is famous after all, and a businessman who knows how to look after his best interests. I think I said it nicely.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Old 12-23-09, 01:40 AM
  #20  
jan nikolajsen 
Mostly Mischief
 
jan nikolajsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 1,500
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 19 Posts
I have one also, as Robbie mentioned. Somebody redid it as a blatant copy of a contemporary Super Corsa, a fact I find somewhat embarrassing.
Currently it is sitting in the attic as a bare frame, while I ponder its future.










Last edited by jan nikolajsen; 12-23-09 at 01:48 AM.
jan nikolajsen is offline  
Old 12-23-09, 01:42 AM
  #21  
jan nikolajsen 
Mostly Mischief
 
jan nikolajsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moab, Utah
Posts: 1,500
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 19 Posts
..more images:









jan nikolajsen is offline  
Old 01-06-13, 08:03 AM
  #22  
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
randomly found this old thread.. despite missing some pictures, definitely worth a bump for new peeps

Any new theories or info about this model?
frantik is offline  
Old 01-06-13, 08:39 AM
  #23  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,225
Mentioned: 172 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2435 Post(s)
Liked 2,026 Times in 871 Posts
Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Cinelli had sold his factory, workers, and name to the Columbus family, who would continue to make the Super Corsa. Perhaps, but in my mind, probably, he had a non-compete clause. He also had, in the back of his mind, a bike he wanted to produce, and maybe in the front of his mind, dissatisfaction wtih the finish quality of the '84 Super Corsa that bore his name. A couple people mentioned to me that the initial reviews of the SC were not as favorable as hoped. I simply don't know. There had to be some kind of bike or frame in the works, because those things took time to plan. Mr. Cinelli never would say who made the frame. Someone at CyclArt, I think, spoke with him, and he denied being the producer of the frame.
Where I am confused is here. When you write "Cinelli" later in your post, do you mean Cino Cinelli or Cinelli the company?

In my mind there is no way Cino had any deal with Centurian. Cino was out in 1978. Done. He certainly had no rights to the Cinelli name. He didn't like the new logo and couldn't do a thing about it. Any deal to put the Cinelli name on a Centurian bike had to go through Colombo. That's the only business deal that makes sense.
iab is offline  
Old 01-06-13, 10:07 AM
  #24  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,577
Mentioned: 600 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4418 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,424 Times in 1,568 Posts
Per further cprrespondence with Ashley, the Centurion Cinelli Equipe deal was brokered between Allan Goldsmith, who was working for WSI at the time, and Andrea Cinelli, who was managing the Cinelli company for Antonio Columbo. Goldsmtih already had the basic design, which was finetuned in collaboration with Andrea and the members of the Chririco family, who handled the manufacture at their shop. One of the Chirico family, Claudio, also built frames for Cinelli at the time. So, despite the WSI advertising copy, Cino himself reportedtly had no direct input.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 01-06-13, 10:33 AM
  #25  
Otto Rax
Amazing, but true...
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Hey Robbie, when are you going to do a book on the history of Centurion?
Otto Rax is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.