How much is "Too much"
 

I had an interesting conversation with a friend who just aquired a crazt rare bike. The conversation went to would he be willing to flip it and how much would he want. That went to a conversation about how much is too much for a bike?

So I'll put it to you. How much is too much for a bike? And not how much you are willing to spend. Let's assume you are flush with cash ($50K in your checking account) and someone is willing to sell you your grail (Confente, 1950 Bianchi with first gen GS, 1968 Colnago, etc.). Or even if your grail is "low end" how much is too much for a "high end" grail?

You're right, it's a relative question.
You kind of have to eliminate the real steals (mint Pinrello Montello for $800) and the ripoffs (87 Lemans RS, butchered, for $275 delivered-eBay).
You also have to consider that some collectors only want bikes that happen to cost more. I understand that, completely.

For me, though, it's "at what level of spending does any more money really stop having an effect on my riding?" For me, it's a grand.

I may be able to outride a $1000 entry-level bike, but I sure can't outride any build I've done for $1000, ...
...and I see darn few used bikes over $1000 that would significantly improve my riding ability based on their components and frame alone, compared to those available at or below $1000.

I'm probably as fast on a $1000 used/built bike as I am on anything more expensive.
I'm probably as comfortable on a $1000 used/built bike as I am on anything more expensive.
I'm probably as good looking on a $1000 used/built bike as I am on anything more expensive, because face it, bikes can't produce miracles.

I can't see anything out there over $1000 that improves anything but my ego, and maybe not that, because my friends would give me a pretty hard time, and my wife, well....let's say I'd suffer.

$500 to $1000, there's room for improvement.
The vast majority of my bikes are $500 and below, well below, but you can get some real nice stuff between $500 and $1000, so I voted $1000.

I'd have voted for $500, but the few bikes I have that go above that, well, they are pretty darn nice.

I see riders, especially triathletes, buying speed, or they think they are. Once you go aero, though, you still have to turn the cranks.
Good conditioning costs less in terms of money and works better. If I was gonna spend over $1000 to get speed, I'd try EPO.

Are we talking Coppi's TdF Bianchi/Merckx's hour record bike, or a bicycle without the provinence of a rider/event attached to it - say a 55cm Confente? That makes a big difference, IMO. I'll presume the latter... and it looks like I'm alone here at Club Med. :lol:

I kind of have to agree with Robbie. there is a point for all but the top echelon riders/racers where spending money is futile. however on classic / vintage bikes Beauty and Value is srtictly in the eye of the seller and buyer.

if I came across a good deal on a DeRosa 35th Anniversario for say 800 and a few weeks later I was offered 1000 I would likely sell it, depending how much work I put into it.

howver if I found a '85 Bianchi Centenario in VGC (my size) I may pay close to 1500 (if I had the cash) but if offered 2000+ I would have trouble parting with it.

both bikes are very similar, SLX Campi Corse Record, but to me the Bianchi is more valuable because it is a Bianchi.

soo over all I think putting a value on a used bike is just very subjective, and simply comes down to how much the seller really wants to part with it.

If I'm afraid to ride a bike, then I spent too much on it. IMO I can buy a really nice riding bike or build one from frame up for $500, so that's wear my vote goes. I can't imagine a $1k bike being that much more comfortable than my $200 Trek. Maybe if I had $50,000 sitting around I'd spend a few thousand on a sweet looking bike that I'll ride once a year, but I keep telling myself that I wouldn't waste that kind of money on things like that.

Edit: I should say that I'm not a racer. Perhaps if I were I would be willing to spend ludicrous amounts on a bike that could potentially help me win a race.

More than one mortgage payment is too much. :thumb:

I based my vote on an assumption that the bike in question is unusually hard to find.

For example, my Counterpoint Opus II tandem:http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/...f9f83c8b_b.jpg
Condition is as close to 'mint' as one can reasonably expect. Components date 1983-4, so there's little doubt the bike dates to 1984. Serial number, if I recall correctly, 21. Phil Wood hubs and BB's give some idea of the level of quality. The frame is clearly hand made and beautifully done, combining custom cut lugs and fillet brazing. It even has its original Zefal hp pump, factory painted to match the bike frame. This is one of the first Opus II's made; and not that many were made before Counterpoint went out of business in the early 90's. It is definitely a classic, definitely vintage.

I'm not saying this is the bike for everyone, but three times in the last year I have had to take a week off from work when one or the other of my children had a week of vacation when my wife had none. This bike enabled me to spend each of those weeks on a multi-day bike tour --two with my daughter (age 10), one with my son (then 12). Without this bike, we would have been stuck at home.

Bear in mind that a new bike along these lines costs somewhere around $5000 from Bilenky or Angletech; the somewhat similar Hase Pino is in the same ballpark. The made in Taiwan Performer Family Tandem can be had for a bit under $2000.

Of course, the new bikes offer advantages over this one; a new Bilenky would be a custom bike to suit me, which would be very nice; the Hase and Performer versions would be quite a bit lighter; and so on. Even so, I consider the Opus II to be highly desirable and unusually rare. Finding one would be much more difficult than paying for one.

I think, as usual, Robbie and Bianchi are right on the money. Assuming I had the expendable cash, it would really depend on the bike. Robbie is 100% correct...I'm not at the point where my Bauer Merckx really makes me a better rider than my old Miyata 916...but I sure enjoy owning the Bauer bike more, and it's ego and aesthetic related. It's just cooler to ride a De Rosa than it is a Miyata, even thought the truth is that the Miyata really wasn't much different. The amount I'd be willing to pay has less to do with a bike's inherent value and more to do with my perception of it.

In BG's example above, I'm exactly opposite. I have almost no interest in Bianchis but love De Rosas. The reason is pretty simple...when I rode as a kid, my friend had a De Rosa that I drooled over. I'd flip a Cinelli track bike with no hesitation because I'd have no interest in it. It wouldn't matter who rode it either....I don't like track bikes and it's only value to me would be in profit. Same with any mixte or bike that wasn't sized for me. I won't keep a bike that I don't want to ride...and it doesn't matter what bike it is. If Coppi's bike didn't fit, I'd sell it the next day. I'd have zero interest in a NOS Confente that was 2cm too large...except as resell value.

The most I've ever paid up front for a bike was $1,000...that was for the JTS, which I bought new. In retrospect, I could have gotten a LOT more bang for my buck buying vintage/used...I got a Merlin butted ti bike with 9sp Dura Ace for far less than that. I think my high limit for a bike I intended to keep would be about $2000...but for $2000 it had better be something SERIOUSLY crazy...like a Hetchins. It would also have to be something I KNEW I could get my money out of should I chose to sell later. The only exception I could think of would be for something custom made...if money was absolutely no object, I could get a custom fit Spectrum or Independant.

I'd spend far more than that for a flip so long as I knew there was profit on the other side to make the expenditure worthwhile.

Since I am not racing, and only ride for fitness, its all about staying within my bike budget. With my engine, you can forget about speed. My limit is not about what I can afford, its all about what makes sense given what I use a bicycle for.

My limit on a keeper bike is that I will not spend more on a keeper (used of course) than my local LBS charges for their entry level racing/road bike. My rationale is that as a fitness rider, a good solid name brand entry level bike is more than adequate. So that sets my limit at about $750.

The good news is that you can find some pretty nice bikes at that price level, so even when I got a case of bike envy, there was no reason to go higher.

The most I have paid to date for a flip is $200. I rarely if ever find higher end stuff (I must be looking in the wrong places) and I do not have enough knowledge about the really high end stuff to dabble in that market anyway. I would probably cross that $200 mark for the right bike, but not the $1000 mark.

And go figure, the bike I ride the most right now is my $16 Lotus Classique.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/...c22e034040.jpg
thrifty bill

If I was as you say "flush with cash" then maybe 2k or 2.5 tops. (but I'm tight as a camels ass in a sandstorm) I voted 2k.

I'dalso agree with the $1000, with the improviso that that's covering the frame, not any upgrades. I only spent $250 for my most expensive bike, but I then put easily $500 in upgrades on it.

If I hd a shot at a really nice frame (with whatever parts it came with) that really appealed to me, then I think I would go as high as $1000. I'd then probably want to make some changes here and there...after my wife forgets...

Here's my reasoning for saying $15,000.

I am a bit of a tightwad - and it appears I'm not alone. I have never spent more than $1,500.00 for a bicycle, and that was for a completely new one a couple years back. Most of mine would come in for under $500.00, and I do have some very nice bicycles that I have acquired in this price range. That's my present reality, and I don't count on that changing.

However... I know there's no way in the world that I would be able to acquire an all-original, top of the line, late 50's Cinelli, or a Rene Herse for under $3,000 - ever, and would consider myself lucky to find one for under $5,000. Now imagine one in near mint condition. I wouldn't consider someone to be "nuts" buying one until they've shelled out over $10,000 for one.

Pesonally, The most I have ever spent is 150 euros, ($218) and for the time being I wont be spending any more than that.

If I was flush then I would be buying the rene herse's of ebay because I feel that they will continue to rise in value and would be able to re-sell if needed.

I think your poll choices are too high. Many of us ride vintage because let's face it, vintage is usually cheaper that new.

My personal high would be about $750. After that I would be too affraid to ride it. If I am spending 1 or 3 grand on a bike, I would have to ride it. Otherwise it is just art, and I never spend that much on art.

<<<<turns down the lights and closes the blinds..... I can't answer this pole or question for fear my wife may have a keystroke tracker on my computer.:p

I understand the attitude of people who are afraid to ride pricier bikes, but insuring the bike alleviates a lot of that stress. My home owners covers most things that happen. The majority of things that can go wrong on a bike can be fixed or replaced.

I am not afraid to ride pricier bikes, I just don't want to pay to acquire them :)

I think that a lot of us C&V bike nuts like to hunt for bargains and then morph them to fit our riding goals. For me, this is a lot of the fun in the equation: building and putting together something just for you. On the other hand, if a Gios Super Record pantographed everything in showroom-like condition and all original, was withing whiff distance from me and was offered for around $2K, I'd pay that in two heartbeats. Could I build that bike in that condition for that price? No way... so...

just for clarification, no matter how much I spend on a C&V bike, I don't get better
performance from it. These aren't 'road forum' type bikes, If I were competing (and that
is a big IF) I could see spending a lot on a carbon fiber 11 speed all the bells and whistles
modern bike. But I'm not competing so the point is moot.
If we are talking 40's or 50's Bianchi, mid to late 60's Colnago, Singer or Herse yes
I could see spending up to $15K for a bike. These bikes are few and far between, and should
command a high price.
That said, I've yet to spend more than $250 for a complete bike, or frame, thats part of the fun.

Marty

I really don't have a dog in this hunt- as my most expensive bike was $250 20 years ago (I just found the cancelled check last week when cleaning out the basement!)

It's entirely subjective as to what is "too much."

I'm new to this "bike" thing- but I've been into the "guitar" thing for the past 30 years or so. It's interesting that guitars that were $200- $600 20 years ago are $5,000+ these days (or really about 2 years ago). As far as guitars go- to find "the one" that has the features you want, the feel you want, the sound you want and the look you want... depending on what those are- it can be cheap or expensive depending on your taste. So for me, a $3000 LP reissue was a deal to me for getting a guitar that has a whole lot of the feel of a neck of a 50s LP Jr, the versatility of 2 pickups, the feel of good wood and the security of not dragging around a $100,000 guitar. Would a LP Standard, or Studio, or Epiphone or some knockoff be less expensive? Yes. Would I get all the things I'm looking for- to include potential resale value down the road? I don't believe so.

Right now, for what I think I'm looking for in a bike- $200 seems to be the area where I'm seeing the bikes I'm interested in- 80s and early 90s MTBs. That may change sometime down the road- my interests and tastes may change.

A better question might have been "How much is too much for you?". In my present economic condition, I could see spending $2K (although I'm sure my wife would not agree with that statement). However, if I were in a different economic category (say my dear sister's as an example), $25K, $50K or more would be inconsequential if it was something I wanted.

The question by the OP is "How much is too much?" I went with the same figure,($1000) as Robbie to answer that question. It seemed to me there is another side to this, How much would you spend just because you like a bike and want it? I thought about that one and realized that I have put a figure of $300 as the price I would fork over without hesitation if a Celeste Bianchi or Nishiki Corvino popped up that I wanted.

Generally, the answer to the initial question is subjective and of little use to others. My opinion,of course, but it is interesting to hear what others say.

Having recently been given a nice chunk of change, I allowed my fantasies to run wild - well, some fantasies anyway. I seriously entertained purchasing a lovely Bianchi on Ebay. The listing title is Vintage Road Bicycle 1940 Bianchi Folgorissima. Buy It Now price is $5,250.00 USD plus shipping. My wife even encouraged me to buy the bike. And I did, and still am, thinking about it but I am pretty sure that I will not.

For me there is no limit. If I want the bicycle badly enough, I will buy it. If I don't want the bike personally, but know that I can make a profit if I choose to sell it, I will pay the price. Again, "pay the price" knowing that there is a profit to be made.

Probably not the best answer, but it is how I make purchase decisions when it comes to vintage road bicycles. And is so doing, I have managed to share over five hundred bicycles so far.

I think it depends on whether you are primarily a collector, rider/racer or investor.

For a true collector, there can really be no limit. How can you put a price limit on a very rare antique?

For a rider/racer, the limit is determined by the point of diminishing returns.

For an investor (aka flipper), the issue becomes one of potential profit.

I'm primarily a rider/racer and most of my vintage bikes are the result of accumulation rather than collection. Several are built on beautiful custom-built frames and would probably cost more than $5K to duplicate today. My modern high-tech bike with its carbon wheels also cost about $5K to build. So does that mean my limit is $5K? Not really, I could afford to pay more, and would be willing to do so if it were necessary to get what I wanted.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. This should probably be three separate polls.

Bingo!

I wouldn't hesitate to pay a small fortune for an 1890s Wright "Van Cleve" or "St. Clair"... They are extremely rare and were built by two brothers who built and flew the first heavier-than-air flying machine, so they are historically significant.

Would I ride it? Probably, but only on special occasions.

I took this photo at the Wright Brothers exhibit, Smithsonian Air & Space Museum.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...tStClairsm.jpg