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Schwinn Superior (1981-83) production per year - an observation

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Schwinn Superior (1981-83) production per year - an observation

Old 01-23-10, 11:58 PM
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Schwinn Superior (1981-83) production per year - an observation

When conversing with forum member knoregs following the entry of his 1982 Superior into the Paramount Registry yesterday, something interesting came up:

My own '82 Superior is serial #20609, headbadge date code 1232 (Blt. 123rd day of 1982).
Kelly's '82 Superior is serial #20620 - presumably 11 frames following mine - with a headbadge date code of 1372, that is, the 137th day of 1982.

There is a 14 day difference between the headbadge codes, with 11 bikes produced in that time period. Assuming a 5 business day schedule, and also assuming that this production rate remained constant throughout the entire 3 year run of Superiors, that would work out to be an average production rate of one Superior a day, or 330-350+/- a year (adjusted for holidays), for a total production of roughly 1,000 frames, give or take a few.

Plausible? Ridiculous? Interested to hear your thoughts. At any rate, that would be an extremely small production run. On the other hand, considering the fact that these things were built from leftover Paramount parts, 800+/- "left over" Nervex lugs* kicking around the Paramount cage isn't chicken feed either.

That said, as no thread is worthwhile without pictures:

My #20609/1232:


Kelly's #20620/1372:


-Kurt

*Some '83s supposedly did not use Nervex lugs. However, the only place I've seen this reference is in the '83 catalog, which also fails to mention that the Superior was available in blue metallic and black. That said, every '83 I've seen so far has Nervex lugs. If such a Superior was produced, I compensated by putting a guess that the batch of Nervex lugs ran out somewhere. I removed 200 lug sets out of the 1000. Again, it's entirely a guess.

Another thought to ponder: Since all Paramounts had been using Prugnat BB shells with Nervex lugs, Superiors followed a similar pattern, though with a generic Japanese BB shell. Were a few '81s produced with leftover Prugnat shells? Who knows?

Heck, the catalog bike for '81 (and repeated for '82) isn't even a Superior - it is a doctored up 1978/9 P-13.
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Old 01-24-10, 03:40 AM
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Kurt,

Considering that Superiors of any era or generation, rarely come up on ebay, I believe you have reached a very logical conclusion, that ultimately very few of your generation were built. The serial numbers help to verify this.

A possible explanation for the small difference in frames made between your date (approximately April 1) and knoregs' frame (approximately April 15), might be that Schwinn had a week long plant shut down over Easter (April 11, 1982). The country was at the end of a major recession and it was not unusual for companies to do this. My Dad's company did this regularly in the summer and the last week in December through the second half of the '70s and into the early '80s. This is just a guess.
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Old 01-24-10, 08:24 AM
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Kurt, every time you post that bike, I want it more and more. It's the right size, the perfect color, the Nervex lugged frame that I'd love to have in my stable, everything.
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Old 01-24-10, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
A possible explanation for the small difference in frames made between your date (approximately April 1) and knoregs' frame (approximately April 15), might be that Schwinn had a week long plant shut down over Easter (April 11, 1982).
An interesting theory - but remember that these frames were built by Don Mainland for Schwinn in Wisconsin. It brings up the question whether he followed the company workweek - or not.

Originally Posted by mudboy View Post
Kurt, every time you post that bike, I want it more and more. It's the right size, the perfect color, the Nervex lugged frame that I'd love to have in my stable, everything.
Then what's with the Rivendell avatar?

Jokes aside, they do pop up on eBay. Infrequently, but they do. I've seen one example go past the block that was most definitely refinished as a purple PDG Paramount. Let me know if you get your hands on one. Any additional S/N could be used to check approximate production numbers.

-Kurt
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Old 01-24-10, 09:45 AM
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Kurt my only comment/question would be I thought a lot of those frames were left over Paramount frames sitting in a ware house not newly produced frames. Also the head badge number is the assembly day not necessarily the date the frame was built. Schwinn did the same thing in 1976 with Superiors being built from left over Sports Tourer frames. Roger
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Old 01-24-10, 10:41 AM
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Superior from an auction last year:


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Old 01-24-10, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rhenning View Post
Kurt my only comment/question would be I thought a lot of those frames were left over Paramount frames sitting in a ware house not newly produced frames.
Granted, I haven't seen an early, early '81 Superior, so there is a chance that some of them were pre-built Paramounts (if so, however, I'd expect them to have Paramount serials).

However, every Superior I have seen shows all evidence of having been built from leftover lugs and tubing by Don Mainland. The BB shells on these Superiors are generic (not Prugnat), the tubing isn't mitered in the BB, and the serial numbers are unique to the Superior.

Originally Posted by leftthread View Post
Superior from an auction last year:
I wish I got the seller's name, the serial #, and the headbadge code from that one.

-Kurt
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Old 01-24-10, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I wish I got the seller's name.
PM'd.
Hey, I just had one of those lightning bolt ideas!

Last edited by leftthread; 01-24-10 at 11:19 AM. Reason: insight
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Old 01-24-10, 12:10 PM
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That is simply one beautiful bike! I have always thought of Schwinn in a negative way. Thanks to you C&V folk i have been proved very wrong!
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Old 01-24-10, 01:02 PM
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My Superior is black with SN 20917. There is no date on the head badge and I think the black ones were available as 'frame only' so maybe this one came from the end of the production for that year.
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Old 01-24-10, 01:09 PM
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Did Don Mainland build and paint the frames and build up the bikes, or just build the frames and send them to Chicago for painting and building?
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Old 01-24-10, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by leftthread View Post
PM'd.
Hey, I just had one of those lightning bolt ideas!
I don't know what you have in mind, but a PM has been sent your way.


Originally Posted by Iowegian View Post
My Superior is black with SN 20917. There is no date on the head badge and I think the black ones were available as 'frame only' so maybe this one came from the end of the production for that year.
Interesting. Do you have a photo of it, and would you be willing to let me add it to the Schwinn Paramount Registry? I have a section for '81-83 Superiors.

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Did Don Mainland build and paint the frames and build up the bikes, or just build the frames and send them to Chicago for painting and building?
Chicago painted them. The finish is unmistakable.

-Kurt
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Old 05-17-11, 05:52 PM
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Late to this post

I can add my frame to this post and confirm that my headbadge is also 1232. It is called a 19" frame with a whopping 55" top tube! I will try to get picks up, the first will be from my cell phone. My regular camera is on the fritz.

My frame is partially paint stripped and has no decals. I have successfully found most of the decals I need, I even found a couple of period-correct "Superior" decals on eBay, but the the block letter "Schwinn" on the downtube still alludes me. Any suggestions?

The frame will be going for paint in the next month and cannot wait to build it up with period correct components.
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Old 05-17-11, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinjg View Post
Late to this post
Thanks for dredging up this post. I somehow missed it the first go around and my bike is even pictured.

~kn
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Old 05-17-11, 07:17 PM
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A couple thoughts on the headbadge stampings:

It's possible that the headbadges were stamped after the bikes were partially assembled and ready to be boxed up. That would give you the close date codes and the bikes were probably done in runs of like models.

Back when Schwinn was still Schwinn, our rep could not tell us the meaning of the four digit codes but we always needed to provide it with a warranty claim. The same number was written on a little white sticker on one of the dropouts and stamped on the box.
Another thing was that we had a lot of bikes with the same date codes and these came in throughout the year. This was at a time when Schwinn bikes came from Greenville, Giant, Merida (?), China Bike, and Csepel.
These codes could have been different in the Chicago days but on the newer stuff, I'm not sure that the first three digits represented the day the bike was "built". However, the last digit has always remained consistent with the model year.
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Old 05-18-11, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by knoregs View Post
Thanks for dredging up this post. I somehow missed it the first go around and my bike is even pictured.

~kn
Knoregs,

How about some updated pictures of your Superior? Especially now that the snow is gone and the trees are green!

Have I ever mentioned your Avatar spooks me every time I see it?
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Old 05-18-11, 09:51 AM
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Here are some crappy cell photos to start. Also, my Headbadge is stamped with #1372, not 1232. In the shape it was in, it was quite a forensic adventure because the place I bought it from had temporarily missplaced the headbadge, so I only had the lugs, tange fork and suntour dropouts to go on. Headtube photo to follow:


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Old 05-18-11, 10:12 AM
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Since these were produced by Don Mainland for Schwinn in Wisconsin I suppose the headbadges, along with the painting was done back in Chicago. So if they were date stamps it would reflect when they were finished up in Chicago. It appears that Schwinn headbadge stamps are based upon final assembly date, not the manufacturing date.

As I understand it, since Mainland was also contracted to do chrome Paramounts, it stands to reason that his work was incorporated into the main facility numeric system. However, the Superior's he produced did have there own serial number series.

I just found another Superior on eBay, I think it is wrongfully attributed to Waterford/Richard Schwinn produced frames. It looks like a last-year production by Don Mainland:

https://cgi.ebay.com/vintage-Schwinn-...item51981ff5f8

Originally Posted by kingsting View Post
A couple thoughts on the headbadge stampings:

It's possible that the headbadges were stamped after the bikes were partially assembled and ready to be boxed up. That would give you the close date codes and the bikes were probably done in runs of like models.

Back when Schwinn was still Schwinn, our rep could not tell us the meaning of the four digit codes but we always needed to provide it with a warranty claim. The same number was written on a little white sticker on one of the dropouts and stamped on the box.
Another thing was that we had a lot of bikes with the same date codes and these came in throughout the year. This was at a time when Schwinn bikes came from Greenville, Giant, Merida (?), China Bike, and Csepel.
These codes could have been different in the Chicago days but on the newer stuff, I'm not sure that the first three digits represented the day the bike was "built". However, the last digit has always remained consistent with the model year.

Last edited by kevinjg; 05-18-11 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Added eBay listing
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Old 05-18-11, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Knoregs,

How about some updated pictures of your Superior?
I'll have to rebuild it. It's stripped down to frame. All looks good though. I think I'm going to lace those sweet Campy hubs to some NOS Mavic clincher rims. I should also acquire a Brooks to match the leather bar wrap. Then it'll be ready to ride... and photograph.

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Have I ever mentioned your Avatar spooks me every time I see it?
Sorry about that... It has to do with my wanting to build a shack out in the remote Vermont woods... probably off the grid. My brother calls it my 'Kaczynski shack'.

~kn
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Old 05-18-11, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by knoregs View Post
...Sorry about that... It has to do with my wanting to build a shack out in the remote Vermont woods... probably off the grid. My brother calls it my 'Kaczynski shack'.

~kn
I have a couple in the church who have a place up near Topsham, VT that is off the grid. Even cell phones don't work there. The place is heated, lighted, and the food is cooled via propane. The water comes from a spring located up the mountain. By the time it reaches the house it is at about 70psi, so plenty of pressure.

It is really quiet there.
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Old 05-18-11, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
I have a couple in the church who have a place up near Topsham, VT that is off the grid. Even cell phones don't work there. The place is heated, lighted, and the food is cooled via propane. The water comes from a spring located up the mountain. By the time it reaches the house it is at about 70psi, so plenty of pressure.

It is really quiet there.
Sounds like my kind of place.

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Old 05-18-11, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kingsting View Post
A couple thoughts on the headbadge stampings:

It's possible that the headbadges were stamped after the bikes were partially assembled and ready to be boxed up. That would give you the close date codes and the bikes were probably done in runs of like models.
Originally Posted by kevinjg View Post
Since these were produced by Don Mainland for Schwinn in Wisconsin I suppose the headbadges, along with the painting was done back in Chicago. So if they were date stamps it would reflect when they were finished up in Chicago. It appears that Schwinn headbadge stamps are based upon final assembly date, not the manufacturing date.
Good points.

Mind you, that '83 on eBay isn't the latest you'll find - the last Superiors were built up with plain lugs.

-Kurt
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Old 05-19-11, 04:07 AM
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Don't you think the one on ebay is way over priced? Of course all the bikes that seller lists are way over priced.

Also, for that price they should detail the bike and remove the rust! Sheesh!

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Old 05-19-11, 09:51 AM
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That looks like surface rust on that headset and much of the bike. Oxalic acid crystals (aka wood bleach) in water overnight will dissolve that away and just rebuff it and use a wax polish on it - like new!

Yes, that bike is abused and overpriced. Even with all the original components, maybe start at half that price. I pretty much have all I need to restore but wish I had some of those old Gentlemen rims, will have to get by with the successor Mavic MA2s.
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Old 05-19-11, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinjg View Post
That looks like surface rust on that headset and much of the bike. Oxalic acid crystals (aka wood bleach) in water overnight will dissolve that away and just rebuff it and use a wax polish on it - like new!
My point was that if the seller really wanted to get that asking price of $950 BIN (+shipping at $180), any buyer would expect (even demand) the bike be pristine. No rust, no dust, no grease, not even fingerprints in a first class top of the line wax and polish job. Yet week after week the same Superior is listed with the same dirt and grime. Pathetic!
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