Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I'm looking for a set of Brake Calipers for my '84 Team Miyata.

I've noticed most of the period correct Brakes are Single Pivot design. The more modern Tektro and Cane Creek brakes I see are all Dual Pivot.

Is there a big difference in stopping power/modulation?

it seems like I can get either Dual or Single Pivot for around the same price...and I don't mind the look of the sleek dual-pivot Tektro's. My main thing is I don't want to spend more money for a Period Correct Single Pivot caliper if it's gonna be far outperformed by a less expensive dual-pivot.

Any suggestions?

Steve530

I don't have a lot of experience with various calipers, but the 2007 Campagnolo Centaur dual pivot brakes (front only) stop noticeably better than my 1983 Campagnolo Super Record single pivot brakes. Although I do not have a reference, I think I've read that dual pivot brakes have a greater mechanical advantage.

You should be aware that most modern brakes are attached with recessed nuts. You can drill out the fork and brake bridge if necessary. You can also find some Tektro brakes with a long threaded stud for use with older bikes.

EjustE

Get dual pivots and use matching levers. Far better braking power. There is no question about that. If you want to go vintage look for a late 80s Shimano 105 SLR or just plain non-group SLR brake set.

strop

+1 Absolutely no comparison, the modern double pivots stop much better. I switched out Suntour Superbe calipers with Shimano Dura Ace AX levers for Ultegra-6600 calipers with Shimano BL-R600 aero levers and the difference was dramatic. Well worth every penny spent.

twoducks

Seconding the superior stopping power of dual pivot brakes, I picked up a nutted pair for my daily commuter and I love them. Very smooth, even, and responsive. I'm using them with 80's SLR levers like EjustE mentions. I'm not going to rush out and replace the brakes on all my bikes with dual-pivots, but I wouldn't hesitate to in the future if I ever needed replacements.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

AH HA! I didn't realize they made a non-group brakeset....This bike is a bit of a mishmash of nice parts so I've been having a tough time trying to keep it from becoming a frankenbike...that might be the ticket.

Thankfully the Fork either was built with a recessed front brake mount, or was drilled out very cleanly by the previous owner.

EjustE

I am actually using those in a tri-bike build (still work in progress, so excuse the filth, the mounting of the levers on bullhorns, and the indoor flash P&S photography) :





practically identical to the first generation 105 SLR brakes.

Oscuro

Built with, both my '85 912 and 310 use recessed.

I aim to get dual pivots for the 912 soon, because...well, it'll be better for descending mountains.

SweetLou

One of the first things I do to a new bike is replace the levers with aero levers and switch to dual pivot brakes. I sometimes leave the single pivot in the rear.

mkeller234

+1, dual pivots breaks are a real upgrade. You could probably test ride a new bike at your lbs to get a feel for the stopping power.

prathmann

I don't see a big advantage to dual pivots. On my most-used bikes I have: 1) Shimano 105 dual pivot, 2) Shimano 600 single pivot, and 3) Suntour Superbe single pivot. In terms of stopping power for a given force, the 600 single pivot seems best followed by the 105 dual pivot with the Suntour single pivot well behind. The 105 dual pivot is easier to adjust to be properly centered and retains that adjustment better than either of the single-pivot brakes. OTOH, the single-pivot designs do a better job in two ways: maintaining proper alignment to the rim wall as the brake shoes wear down, and tracking minor rim wobbles (untrueness) without grabbing.

But any of the brakes can easily be applied hard enough to either flip the bike over the front wheel or to initiate a skid - so getting more 'stopping power' isn't really an issue.

jan nikolajsen 

Facts: Dual pivot have superior stopping power. Thread-less steerer tubes with modern stems are stronger and stiffer. Indexed shifting is faster and more precise. Exterior BB bearings have less flex. New bikes are safer with a known history and fresh parts.

But, we're here at C&V. The old stuff works good too. And fits the bikes we're dealing with. Where to begin and where to stop?

Period correct calipers will still stop before an emergency or slow a 12% descent. I like them.

EjustE

Depends where you draw the line. Dual pivot brakes is a 20 year old technology (Shimano 1055 105 c.1990). Index shifting is a 25 year old technology (Shimano 7400 Dura Ace c.1985). So we are not talking about modern technology exactly, and I don't think that it would be a hubris to add either of these on a 26 year old bike (like the OP's). A lot of people upgraded their early 80s bikes with these technologies in the late 80s and 90s anyways... Serious riders used to take their brakesets out of fully equipt Dura Ace bikes in the early 90s and traded them in for 105s because they were superior.

jan nikolajsen 

True. Good point.

clubman 

I think a Team Miyata merits a quality vintage build especially if it's not your daily rider/beater/commuter. A pair of Diacompe NGC 400's with Mathauser pads will stop the bike very well and add period correct mojo to the bike. We don't swap out our old NR derailleurs (or brakes) just because a Suntour VX works better? Not on our Masi's anyway...(I wish)

To each their own...

Mos6502

Well actually, dual pivot sidepulls go way back to the 1970s:


But as the early designs weren't really any better than the single pivot side pulls, and centerpulls were still in fashion, dual pivot design more or less stagnated for about decade.

JohnDThompson 

No,they're much older than that. Gerry Burgess invented the dual-pivot brake back in the late 1950s and marketed them under his own brand ("GB" in England). He later licensed the design to Altenburger and Weinmann, who marketed dual-pivot calipers for low and mid-level bikes. They were never popular on high end bikes until Shimano introduced their dual-pivot models in the early 90s.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I'd swap out a NR for a Suntour CYclone or a Superbe though

I was looking at some Dia-Compe NGC's they seem very nice...

The bike was originally spec'd with full Dura-Ace, but this particular machine has a racing history and judging by the OMAS headset races it had left in it has worn a real mashup of high end parts throughout its racing life.
I'm still considering putting more Dura-Ace stuff on it, but right now I've got a set of Superbe derailleurs on it that I really like even if they are a few years to old for this thing.

Thanks for all the replies folks! Here's a crappy pic of the subject in question.

Dura Ace hubs on Mavic Open 4 CD rims

Suntour Superbe Derailleurs date codes WH & UH

Sugino Cranks, Sugino Stem on the way, Tange Levin Headset

trueno92

More info on this pls!

I stumbled upon this thread at a pretty good time.. i was thinking of upgrading my 105 single pivot brakes. They are the SLR's with ball bearings and thrust washers between each arm on the center pivot. I have reconditioned these and they work/look fantastic with minimal drag/friction for the entire assembly.

I AM using these calipers with much more modern Campagnolo 10sp shifter/levers, and was wondering what would look equally as elegant on my 80's Bianchi frame, and provide an improvement in stopping power/modulation.

Were these better than Dura-Ace at the time? they feel pretty light but I noticed Dura-ace had longer arms/leverage in their single pivots of the same era?

JohnDThompson 

No, the early dual-pivot brakes were more powerful than the sidepulls of that era, but as you note, centerpulls were the current fashion, and dual pivot brakes are no more powerful than centerpulls so fashion won the day.

EjustE

Here is more info from Sheldon Brown in a cycling forums post 4th post down in this thread

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Are those calipers Dual-Pivot or Single? I found a set i'm considering, but they look like single pivot....well they look like the ones in your pictures

trueno92

those are single pivot.

however, these are the best for singles, from sheldon brown... thrust washers and ball bearings are between both arms along the pivot.