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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-21-22, 01:31 PM
  #25626  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Thanks for those tips! Front and back actually have different issues (though I didn't pay attention to their reach when I removed them for cleaning; I guess that rear has the longer reach and my original pic confirms): Rear binds up. I've lubricated the brake bolt and played around with the tension between tightening/loosening the brake bolt and tightening/loosening the brake bolt nut, but something still isn't right. It's possible I reversed front and rear springs, but they seem to be sitting in the right spots. The front springs open and closed just fine, but now the pads are too close to the rim! It's possible I switched front and rear pad when reassembling, but they look equally worn to me (which is actually not worn at all). That's an odd one. I'm assuming the calipers just aren't opening as wide as they should.

When new tires arrive and I have a reason to pull the wheels, I'll also pull both brakes and see if I can figure out what's going on. Advice always appreciated!
If I were you I would not use the original pads- they are probably as hard as a rock and not good for much.

One thing I've run into on occasion is the spring for the brake can bend slightly over time. I've had to bend them outward on occasion to restore proper operation. The front and rear pads should be the same part, but on older bikes sometimes there is a bent bit of metal on the rear pad that prevents it jamming between the wheel and frame if the brake is poorly set up.
I would disconnect the cable from the brake and insure that it moves freely and easily in both directions. If the cable is rusty it might move reasonably well enough when squeezing the brake lever, even enough to convince you its just fine, but it may not release, especially when the brake spring is weaker from being tensioned over so many decades.
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Old 01-21-22, 02:26 PM
  #25627  
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@SirMike1983

On the tires, I really like the Michelins and the Schwalbes. No complaints so far, and those Michelins just look right on these bikes to my eye. The Panaracers gave me too many flats, but that may have been just my experience.
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Old 01-21-22, 08:34 PM
  #25628  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Thanks, all. This bike was clearly put away in dry storage for 60+ years. Barely any corrosion on the bright parts and just a bit of scraping on the main triangle. Interestingly, no evidence of ever having been fitted with a kickstand! Woohoo!



This is likely the third bike I've setup with a quadrant shifter, and they work really, really well. Less fussy than trigger shifters on the bars.
No kickstand....Now that's lucky. A while back, some guy on ebay got a hold of some NOS German ESGE stands made especially for Raleigh frames. I put one on my Rudge to cover up the chain stay carnage.
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Old 01-21-22, 10:56 PM
  #25629  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Here’s an update on my 1940 (most likely) Sports Light Roadster project. A pic from when I first brought it home:

The bars are alloy from V-O and the GB stem is likely a placeholder. I also have new Schwalbe tires on order as you can see that front tire that I had in the bin is too narrow. Haven’t taken it for a test ride yet as I did something wacky with the brake reassembly and now they don’t work very well! I’ll figure that out.
That's as perfect as a barn find spit-and-shine gets, Neal. Absolutely adore it.

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Old 01-21-22, 11:21 PM
  #25630  
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
Not to distract from the nice old Boston Sports above, but has anyone done a direct comparison of Panaracer Col de La Vie, Michelin World Tour, and Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires?
I have all three, but have only been able to ride the Michelin and the Schwalbe Delta Cruisers.

I honestly can't tell much difference between the two, but it could be because the Raleighs wearing them are radically different - my restomodded 1980 Sports wears the Michelins, while 4-speed Clydesdale of a '51 Sports wears the Schwalbes. In my experience though, the Schwalbes seem to coast a bit better; perhaps because of their fairly thick, hard tread. But that tread also makes them heavier than the Michelins, and I think one would feel the difference if running a Sports/Superbe/whatever-with-EA3s on aluminum rims instead of the stock steel anchors.

That said, the Michelins win out any day of the week on tread pattern alone, and no distracting billboard advertisements plastered all over the side of the tire. The only reason I run the Delta Cruisers on my '51 is because neither Panaracer nor Michelin makes their tires in cream.

Incidentally, Panaracer also offers a Kevlar-bead EA3 tire which is not the Col De La Vie in the Japanese market. It comes in a bag. Amazon has it, they claim it's the "Super Hard" model. Not sure if translation is correct or accurate: https://amzn.to/3Ku5sqx



The tread pattern on this Panaracer is traditional, but I've never held one in my hands to get a feel for it.



I have no desire to try a pair - I can't see a folding Kevlar bead and a straight-side, non-hooked Raleigh steel rim ending in anything other than a blowout. In fact, one of the cream Wanda tires ("WD" on the sidewall) I had on my '51 blew off it's stainless Raleigh rims twice due to the wire bead not being molded absolutely perfectly into the rubber. Zero issues with the Schwalbes on the same rim with no "quick fixes" to the rim between the swap.

I'm itching to try out the Col De La Vies though, which came to me via @Ged117's Superbe. They look like fat high-end skinwalls, and of course, skinwall clinchers look like tubulars...

-Kurt
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Old 01-22-22, 08:32 AM
  #25631  
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In response to @SirMike1983 wondering if the rear dropout on the 1940 Sports was a different style than standard, I took some pics of Raleigh dropouts in the fleet:


1937 Sports


1940 Sports


1949 Clubman


1950 Lenton Tourist


1970 Sports
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Old 01-22-22, 10:15 AM
  #25632  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I have all three, but have only been able to ride the Michelin and the Schwalbe Delta Cruisers.

I honestly can't tell much difference between the two, but it could be because the Raleighs wearing them are radically different - my restomodded 1980 Sports wears the Michelins, while 4-speed Clydesdale of a '51 Sports wears the Schwalbes. In my experience though, the Schwalbes seem to coast a bit better; perhaps because of their fairly thick, hard tread. But that tread also makes them heavier than the Michelins, and I think one would feel the difference if running a Sports/Superbe/whatever-with-EA3s on aluminum rims instead of the stock steel anchors.

That said, the Michelins win out any day of the week on tread pattern alone, and no distracting billboard advertisements plastered all over the side of the tire. The only reason I run the Delta Cruisers on my '51 is because neither Panaracer nor Michelin makes their tires in cream.

Incidentally, Panaracer also offers a Kevlar-bead EA3 tire which is not the Col De La Vie in the Japanese market. It comes in a bag. Amazon has it, they claim it's the "Super Hard" model. Not sure if translation is correct or accurate: https://amzn.to/3Ku5sqx



The tread pattern on this Panaracer is traditional, but I've never held one in my hands to get a feel for it.



I have no desire to try a pair - I can't see a folding Kevlar bead and a straight-side, non-hooked Raleigh steel rim ending in anything other than a blowout. In fact, one of the cream Wanda tires ("WD" on the sidewall) I had on my '51 blew off it's stainless Raleigh rims twice due to the wire bead not being molded absolutely perfectly into the rubber. Zero issues with the Schwalbes on the same rim with no "quick fixes" to the rim between the swap.

I'm itching to try out the Col De La Vies though, which came to me via @Ged117's Superbe. They look like fat high-end skinwalls, and of course, skinwall clinchers look like tubulars...

-Kurt
The Panaracer Col de la Vie might be my favourite bicycle tire of all time. For an upright bicycle like an old Raleigh, it returns a very nice ride. I rode the Superbe quite often and for many kilometers over varied terrain beyond the city path network, including the odd dirt and gravel path. Never flatted once, but one can expect flats eventually with any tire. If I ever have a another three speed 650a or a 650b converted bike, I would 100% buy again. I'm building a new 700c wheelset for my Peugeot, and it's getting Panaracer Gravel Kings in 28 or 32mm. I could fit 35mm without fenders, but that won't do.
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Old 01-22-22, 04:06 PM
  #25633  
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I haven't tried a set of Panaracer Col de la Vie tires on a Raleigh Sports but had a set in 650B on a mid 80's Raleigh mountain bike that had been converted to a Nexus 7 speed hub for a while. The bike came to me with a Col de la vie tire on the rear, and a CST tire up front that had seen better days. I bought a new front tire and left the rear tire alone. I got a ton of flats with those tires, I ended up buying some Kevlar strips for the inside of the tires which ruined the ride. At max pressure they still felt soft under my weight. I eventually added a set of thorn resistant tubes and ran them over inflated to gain back to help with rolling resistance. While I think they're a well made tire, I don't think their a good choice for a heavy rider. Michelin World Tour tires have been my favorite lately. I've not had a set of Schwalbe tires yet though.
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Old 01-23-22, 09:01 AM
  #25634  
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Related to questions about tire brands….All of my older Raleigh/Hercules bikes with 26” wheels have 37-590 tires with at least a couple of different brands represented, though none of them the Michelin World Tours. When looking online at the World Tours for sale, they’re all listed as 35-590. Is that 2mm in width going to make a difference in their ability to be mounted on (and stay on) those older rims?
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Old 01-23-22, 04:49 PM
  #25635  
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sturmey am compatability?

3-speed related question that hopefully someone can help me with...
i know (from my readings of this great forum) that s-5 hub internals will fit into aw hubs shells, and that am internals will fit into aw hub shells. what i need to know is whether s-5 internals will fit into am hub shells? and failing that, will a 40-hole s-5 shell use the same spokes as a 40-hole am hub? i figured that if anyone would know it'd be the people on this thread.

thanks!!!!!
rob
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Old 01-23-22, 05:00 PM
  #25636  
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Originally Posted by Rherdegen View Post
Related to questions about tire brands….All of my older Raleigh/Hercules bikes with 26” wheels have 37-590 tires with at least a couple of different brands represented, though none of them the Michelin World Tours. When looking online at the World Tours for sale, they’re all listed as 35-590. Is that 2mm in width going to make a difference in their ability to be mounted on (and stay on) those older rims?
They'll be just fine.
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Old 01-23-22, 05:56 PM
  #25637  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
They'll be just fine.
Thank you—good news!
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Old 01-23-22, 07:20 PM
  #25638  
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I just bought some Kenda tires listed as 37-590, but I’ll be really surprised if they end up that wide once mounted. They feel stiff and narrow out of the box.
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Old 01-24-22, 06:56 AM
  #25639  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I just bought some Kenda tires listed as 37-590, but I’ll be really surprised if they end up that wide once mounted. They feel stiff and narrow out of the box.
If they are the K40s then they will feel stiff and narrow when mounted too! But they are cheap and available so......
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Old 01-24-22, 08:06 AM
  #25640  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I just bought some Kenda tires listed as 37-590, but I’ll be really surprised if they end up that wide once mounted. They feel stiff and narrow out of the box.
I had a set of Kenda 37-590 tires from 2004 that ran on a Sports until a few years ago. That's pretty much the feeling I got from them. They lasted a pretty long time for a set of cheaper tires, but the Panaracers were a definite upgrade. I've had one flat in the Panaracers, so nothing extreme. The only thing I don't like about them is the fact that you pretty much max out your fender clearance and there's no wiggle room left when you're done. I may try the Michelin World Tours next. I will say that if you are good at getting tweaking fenders and getting the most out of the clearance, that the Panaracers have a very forgiving ride on bumpy pavement.
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Old 01-24-22, 10:48 AM
  #25641  
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Older chaincase stepthrough for $295 in VA.

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Old 01-24-22, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by quakerparrot67 View Post
3-speed related question that hopefully someone can help me with...
i know (from my readings of this great forum) that s-5 hub internals will fit into aw hubs shells, and that am internals will fit into aw hub shells. what i need to know is whether s-5 internals will fit into am hub shells? and failing that, will a 40-hole s-5 shell use the same spokes as a 40-hole am hub? i figured that if anyone would know it'd be the people on this thread.

thanks!!!!!
rob
bump
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Old 01-24-22, 01:18 PM
  #25643  
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Originally Posted by quakerparrot67 View Post
3-speed related question that hopefully someone can help me with...
i know (from my readings of this great forum) that s-5 hub internals will fit into aw hubs shells, and that am internals will fit into aw hub shells. what i need to know is whether s-5 internals will fit into am hub shells? and failing that, will a 40-hole s-5 shell use the same spokes as a 40-hole am hub? i figured that if anyone would know it'd be the people on this thread.

thanks!!!!!
rob
S5 and AW shells are the same in every way except for the model name stamped onto them.
Both share the same hub flange diameter as well. Either shell can take either internals.
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Old 01-24-22, 03:02 PM
  #25644  
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Originally Posted by vintagebicycle View Post
S5 and AW shells are the same in every way except for the model name stamped onto them.
Both share the same hub flange diameter as well. Either shell can take either internals.
got that part. what i would like to swith the s-5 internals into is the am medium ratio alloy shell, if it is the same as the aw shell or close enough. thanks for responding, man.

cheers,
rob
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Old 01-24-22, 03:09 PM
  #25645  
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Originally Posted by brianhamp View Post
I would try asking this question on the Sturmey Archer Facebook group. They are everything Sturmey Archer.. Mostly older stuff.
I have all these hubs however I do not mix them into different hub shells so I cant honestly answer your question for you. Sorry
i'll have to check them out. i got a good deal on a pair of built sun 18 alloy wheels, built around a front dynohub6 and a rear am 3 speed. i have an unbuilt s-5 hub and would like to use it in this wheelset without rebuilding (having rebuilt by a shop) the whole wheel. beginning to wonder which actuallly would be more complicated, lol.
thanks!

cheers,
rob
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Old 01-24-22, 04:38 PM
  #25646  
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Originally Posted by vintagebicycle View Post
I haven't tried a set of Panaracer Col de la Vie tires on a Raleigh Sports but had a set in 650B on a mid 80's Raleigh mountain bike that had been converted to a Nexus 7 speed hub for a while. The bike came to me with a Col de la vie tire on the rear, and a CST tire up front that had seen better days. I bought a new front tire and left the rear tire alone. I got a ton of flats with those tires, I ended up buying some Kevlar strips for the inside of the tires which ruined the ride. At max pressure they still felt soft under my weight. I eventually added a set of thorn resistant tubes and ran them over inflated to gain back to help with rolling resistance. While I think they're a well made tire, I don't think their a good choice for a heavy rider. Michelin World Tour tires have been my favorite lately. I've not had a set of Schwalbe tires yet though.
When I got my first set of Col de la Vies, I didn't like them that much. They looked good, but I did get a number of flats (especially slow leaks of unknown origin.)

The Col de la Vies are rated at a max of about 45 psi. Like you, I'm not on the light side, and that just seemed to be too low a pressure. On the advice of someone else who used these tires, I over-inflated to about 50-55 psi, and had frequent flats.

But on my second set, I decided to try something different: I inflated them at 40-45 psi. And guess what? Barely any flats, and the ride quality felt a lot better. They're just fat enough that running them at lower pressures work.

So if you try another set, try them at 35-45 psi and don't use any flat liners or thorn resistant tubes. And if you still can't wrap your head around that idea, just go with Schwalbes instead.
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Old 01-24-22, 11:19 PM
  #25647  
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
When I got my first set of Col de la Vies, I didn't like them that much. They looked good, but I did get a number of flats (especially slow leaks of unknown origin.)

The Col de la Vies are rated at a max of about 45 psi. Like you, I'm not on the light side, and that just seemed to be too low a pressure. On the advice of someone else who used these tires, I over-inflated to about 50-55 psi, and had frequent flats.

But on my second set, I decided to try something different: I inflated them at 40-45 psi. And guess what? Barely any flats, and the ride quality felt a lot better. They're just fat enough that running them at lower pressures work.

So if you try another set, try them at 35-45 psi and don't use any flat liners or thorn resistant tubes. And if you still can't wrap your head around that idea, just go with Schwalbes instead.
My first attempt at getting Col de la Vie tires to survive was running them a the recommended pressure, but they sat so low under load I would have damaged the rims. The roads around my neighborhood here are rough, lots of oil and stone roads, rough shoulders, and small curbs and driveway aprons with 1" curbing. Pinch flats and rim dents are the biggest concern.

What I noticed was that those tires would pick up small bits of stone or even sand and those bits would work their way deep into the tread. Other, harder compound tires don't hold onto those small pieces.


Here's some mounted widths of various Kenda tires I have here right now:



K103 - 37-590 - Used, 5 years or older on Endrick rim, these are very similar to the original Raleigh Record tires but a good bit narrower.



K40 - 37-590 - used, older tire on Endrick rim, this is the widest one I have that's mounted on a wheel, its an older Kenda tire and a bit wider than the newer versions. This set was on a Raleigh LTD that i rode for a few seasons sparingly, they have a ton of small cuts and chunks missing but I don't think they ever had a flat. I avoid these now because I dented the rims up pretty bad with these tires, even at full inflation. I tried running thorn resistant tubes but the small size of the tire on the Endrick rim made them nearly impossible to get on and off. The tire doesn't fit that tight to the bead seat area but its so small, the thicker tube made it a real pain to mount and dismount.
The K40 and the older CST versions of this tire have evolved over the years each time getting thinner or smaller overall.

Michelin tires are a tight fit, often requiring tire tools but they inflate well, wear well, and the ride is very acceptable.
I found the Col de la Vie tires harder to pedal and the bike didn't coast as well as with the harder tires. The Michelin tires were the best when it came to rolling resistance. I've not had a chance to try Schwalbe tires or the other various Kenda 590 sized tires. I did have a set of K803 tires on a used bike, they were a bit noisy and didn't look right on an English bike. I sold that bike fairly quickly so I can't comment on those.
I did have an Raleigh Sports for a while with a set of Kenda K193 tires, which are sort of a slick tread with random sipes, often referred to as motorcycle tread, they were wide whitewalls, they rolled well and handled fine but looked terrible on that bike. I've never seen a source for them and have no idea where the former owner found them.



K184 - 37-590 - New tire on Endrick rim, width wise, these aren't any wider than most but they stand taller overall. The overall look is much better than with the K40 or K23


K23 - 37-590 - New, on Endrick rim, inflated to max 65 psi pressure.
These came to me with a bike I bought on CL, since they were so undersized, they've been hanging on the wall waiting for a suitable use. These are a very tight fit on the rim, requiring tools to mount and dismount. Its also very hard to get them to pop up on the bead area of the rim. I had to soap up the bead a bit to get the tire on and fully inflated properly. Although these are new, I've not seen these offered lately. Earlier versions of these were never this small. I have a very early version of these on a 64 Robin Hood and those measure nearly 33mm wide but those are only rated at 45psi.



Depending on the rim, the Michelin tires run very close to being true to size at 35-590. The last set I had here on a pair of Raleigh patern rims measured 34.9 mm when new, and had grown to 35.8mm in a year of light use and full inflation.

Due to the cost of tires lately, I tend to run my tires down to the casing threads or until they simply won't go any further. Call it thrify or cheap, but I don't go that far these days and a flat tire rarely means more than a mile or two walk home if i can't fix it on the spot.

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Old 01-24-22, 11:24 PM
  #25648  
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Originally Posted by vintagebicycle View Post
My first attempt at getting Col de la Vie tires to survive was running them a the recommended pressure, but they sat so low under load I would have damaged the rims. The roads around my neighborhood here are rough, lots of oil and stone roads, rough shoulders, and small curbs and driveway aprons with 1" curbing. Pinch flats and rim dents are the biggest concern.

What I noticed was that those tires would pick up small bits of stone or even sand and those bits would work their way deep into the tread. Other, harder compound tires don't hold onto those small pieces.
Everyone's experience is going to be different. I've ridden my Col de la Vies on plenty of rough surfaces with no worry. I haven't had instances of debris working their way into tread, but I suppose it could happen. It'll happen eventually with any tire. I used to run Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which are indeed great tires, but towards the end I was getting lots of flats due to glass and things embedding themselves even in the thickest part of the tread.
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Old 01-25-22, 12:27 AM
  #25649  
vintagebicycle
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
Everyone's experience is going to be different. I've ridden my Col de la Vies on plenty of rough surfaces with no worry. I haven't had instances of debris working their way into tread, but I suppose it could happen. It'll happen eventually with any tire. I used to run Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which are indeed great tires, but towards the end I was getting lots of flats due to glass and things embedding themselves even in the thickest part of the tread.
The roads here are pretty bad when it comes to bicycles, or even motorcycles. They've been slowly getting rid of the oil and stone type paving but its still fairly common. Over the past 40 years they also have taken away the road shoulder area. Outside the white lines the road ends abruptly and you have a mix of old stone pavement or sand. Smaller roads are usually potholed and covered in sand and debris. I gave up on road bikes because it got to the point where every ride, even short rides around the neighborhood resulted in a flat regardless of the tire style.
I wish the Col de la Vie had a bit thicker tread or some sort of flat protection, or maybe if it were designed to run a higher pressure.
The K184 has been a good cheaper option. Although its not super wide, it keeps the rim further off the road. The fairly hard compound makes it wear well, resist flats, and the higher 65 psi pressure prevents pinch flats.

Its a 'safe' tire rim wise for most bikes, but lately its not always been cheaper. I've been able to find blackwall Michelin tires cheaper than any of the Kenda tires when they're available, even with overseas shipping. The problem is they're not always available in large enough quantities to get them cheap enough.
I generally also strongly prefer a black tire, I'm not a fan of a white, gum, or tan sidewall.
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Old 01-25-22, 02:59 AM
  #25650  
anotherbike
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I picked up a pile of cheap bikes off CL the other day for $30. Out of 11 bikes, there were 7 that were complete and basically rideable if you really wanted to, but nothing but cheap old bikes, (Ross Eurosport 5 speed, 2 Murray cruisers, one late model Huffy ladies cruiser, two newer Kent BMX bikes, one Sears Free Spirit three speed, one Huffy Sportsman 3 speed, I listed those right away and every one of them was gone in three days except the Huffy ladies cruiser, which I ended up selling the wheels off it to someone in NM.
The rest were all missing parts or junk.
Among the parts pile there's a Raleigh Sprite 27.
Its a brown frame with brown round top fenders. The chrome is decent but the paint is rough. Both hubs have loose flanges, the front left flange has broken, come unpressed from the hub and slid to the middle of the hub, the rear flange is off completely. Basically both wheels have collapsed. Both rims are rusted where they sat on the ground for ages.
The saddle is good.
Also in the pile is a pair of minty clean steel Araya wheels that could pass for new, but they're laced to 135mm/100mm wide steel nutted Shimano hubs.
There's an Electra comfort bike with a cracked aluminum frame that had 700x42C tires and a Nexus three speed hub. But someone cut out the front hub with wire cutters. The bike has a battery pack so maybe someone stole a generator hub out of that wheel.
There's also a brown Raleigh hockey stick chainguard that matches the Sprite 27 and several Raleigh sports cranksets.
I rid myself of the junk pretty quick but I saved the Sprite 27 and the alloy 700C rims and tires..

The big question is what to do with the Sprite 27? I hate to just toss it, and I know it won't bring anything as a bare frame with rough paint.
I have enough parts to build it up with either the steel Araya wheels or the wider 700C Electra wheels. I'd lace in an AW hub though.
The fenders are the worst part, they're badly bubbled up with rust and will have to be either completely stripped and preserved or I need to find another set.
There is a pair of Wald 27" fenders in the pile of parts along with several later pair of Raleigh Sprite fenders, one set in red, one in yellow. Both were from ladies frames that weren't worth saving due to rust or crash damage.

Would anyone bother putting a Sprite 27 back together? It likely won't cost me more than maybe a set of spokes but spoke these days are likely worth more than the bike would be all done.
I could just use any old set of 27" wheels and leave it with derailleurs but I have zero interest in it as a derailleur bike.
Another no cost option would be to lace in a newer Shimano three speed which shares the same diameter hub flange size with the current large flange hubs in those chrome Araya wheels.
I also thought about just lacing it up with a coaster brake in the back too.

The requirements for a bike here are that it has fenders, black wall 1 3/8" or wider tires, and upright bars. All else gets sold off or junked for parts.
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