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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 03-15-22, 08:26 AM
  #25801  
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Trum: Yeah, maybe $200.00 tops. It looks like all it needs is a news Brooks and an oiled cloth.
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Old 03-15-22, 08:38 AM
  #25802  
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A couple of recent posts raised a question in my mind. Has anyone here pulled a Sturmey AW non-drive side ball cup/ratchet assembly (either the later punch-out ones or the earlier thread-off ones)? My habit has always been to use hubs with bad non-drive ball cups as donors for other hubs, but I find the concept of saving those hubs interesting. Also, I can't recall seeing a non-drive ball cup for sale on its own. Sheldon Brown recorded the method of removal (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html), but even after 20+ years of working on three speeds, I've never done it.
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Old 03-15-22, 05:39 PM
  #25803  
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
A couple of recent posts raised a question in my mind. Has anyone here pulled a Sturmey AW non-drive side ball cup/ratchet assembly (either the later punch-out ones or the earlier thread-off ones)? My habit has always been to use hubs with bad non-drive ball cups as donors for other hubs, but I find the concept of saving those hubs interesting. Also, I can't recall seeing a non-drive ball cup for sale on its own. Sheldon Brown recorded the method of removal (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html), but even after 20+ years of working on three speeds, I've never done it.
Ive knocked out several. Usually if I needed a different hole count for a wheel build and all Id have on hand is a TCW with the right number. Or if I was making a 2 speed fixed gear hub.
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Old 03-16-22, 04:19 PM
  #25804  
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Turista! This ladies' loop is slightly overpriced for the condition at $150 in MD.

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Old 03-16-22, 05:00 PM
  #25805  
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Just like my 72. My paint is marginally better, plus mines got a Brooks. I should buy it just for the chrome.
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Old 03-16-22, 08:44 PM
  #25806  
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I joined this forum because I bought my first 3 speed, a 1953 Hercules (Tourist maybe?). Will post pics when I can.
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Old 03-17-22, 04:03 PM
  #25807  
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^^ Looking forward to them!
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Old 03-17-22, 04:19 PM
  #25808  
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
A couple of recent posts raised a question in my mind. Has anyone here pulled a Sturmey AW non-drive side ball cup/ratchet assembly (either the later punch-out ones or the earlier thread-off ones)? My habit has always been to use hubs with bad non-drive ball cups as donors for other hubs, but I find the concept of saving those hubs interesting. Also, I can't recall seeing a non-drive ball cup for sale on its own. Sheldon Brown recorded the method of removal (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html), but even after 20+ years of working on three speeds, I've never done it.
Years ago, as a kid, I used to help out at a small bike shop where I grew up. The guy had been there for decades by that time and he sold many brands.
He had a press on the end of one work bench for changing out the later SA left bearing cups. It looked similar to an ammo reloading press, with a long handle and a fixture to hole the hub. To remove the cup, you set the hub into the correct side of the fixture base and pulled down the handle and out came the left cup, to install it, you flipped over the fixture base, and set the hub into the holder and pressed the new cup in place. He had a huge selection of SA parts, (and just about everything else as well).

I often wondered what happened to all those parts, he was a gray hair old man back then, (mid 70's or so), The place was completely gone by the mid late 80's when I returned home. I had gone there looking to buy a bike but the shop and house were gone. Where the house and shop used to sit had become the back parking lot for a convenience store.

I remember going to the parts shelf there and he had shoe box size metal drawers of SA parts, Every part number had its own drawer. It was the kind of place where if he rebuilt a hub, it got all new bearings, new springs if it had them, and new bearing cones regardless, and he charged a flat rate for the job.
He'd charge $15 to overhaul an SA hub, and $8 for a coaster brake hub. $3 to fix a flat, $5 if you wanted a new tube.

He used to tell me if I used any parts for my own stuff, make sure to write down what I used, but he never charged any of us for any of the parts. It probably wasn't worth the trouble unless you bought something really expensive, then he only charged us what he paid.
I rebuilt an early Norman 3 speed for myself back then, two new tires, two new Dunlop rims, a new rear axle and pawl springs, plus new bearings. new bearings everywhere else, new grips, a new saddle, and two new original pedals. I totaled up all the parts that I had used, it came to around $11. He told me I owed him for the tires, and not to worry about the rest. He said the two tires were $3, but refused to take any cash. That was some time between 1975 and 1978. I had the bike till the mid 80's when the right chain stay broke off the BB shell. We brazed it but it didn't hold, so it got hung in a wall in the garage and forgotten about.

It funny how stuff like that gets remembered after so many years.
The guy drove a musty old black '46 Desoto, the car had very low miles and he only used it when he went to pickup parts somewhere.
He had a '48 Ford that he said belonged to his wife, who had passed away years before, The Ford was his daily driver. Both cars were 'well aged' looking but not rusty. One of the last things I did while I worked there was to help him change the clutch in the Desoto. (On the ground, in the driveway in November int he dark after the shop closed). I would have loved to own either of those cars, neither one had more than 20k on the odometer. At the time, they were just 'old' cars and I don't think I had much interest in them then though. The guy just hated to drive his cars though and did most of his local errands on a bicycle or an old side car army motorcycle.
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Old 03-17-22, 05:41 PM
  #25809  
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Rough ladies' 23" for $45 in SC.

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Old 03-17-22, 08:58 PM
  #25810  
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Originally Posted by junkpile View Post
Years ago, as a kid, I used to help out at a small bike shop where I grew up. The guy had been there for decades by that time and he sold many brands.
He had a press on the end of one work bench for changing out the later SA left bearing cups. It looked similar to an ammo reloading press, with a long handle and a fixture to hole the hub. To remove the cup, you set the hub into the correct side of the fixture base and pulled down the handle and out came the left cup, to install it, you flipped over the fixture base, and set the hub into the holder and pressed the new cup in place. He had a huge selection of SA parts, (and just about everything else as well).

I often wondered what happened to all those parts, he was a gray hair old man back then, (mid 70's or so), The place was completely gone by the mid late 80's when I returned home. I had gone there looking to buy a bike but the shop and house were gone. Where the house and shop used to sit had become the back parking lot for a convenience store.

I remember going to the parts shelf there and he had shoe box size metal drawers of SA parts, Every part number had its own drawer. It was the kind of place where if he rebuilt a hub, it got all new bearings, new springs if it had them, and new bearing cones regardless, and he charged a flat rate for the job.
He'd charge $15 to overhaul an SA hub, and $8 for a coaster brake hub. $3 to fix a flat, $5 if you wanted a new tube.

He used to tell me if I used any parts for my own stuff, make sure to write down what I used, but he never charged any of us for any of the parts. It probably wasn't worth the trouble unless you bought something really expensive, then he only charged us what he paid.
I rebuilt an early Norman 3 speed for myself back then, two new tires, two new Dunlop rims, a new rear axle and pawl springs, plus new bearings. new bearings everywhere else, new grips, a new saddle, and two new original pedals. I totaled up all the parts that I had used, it came to around $11. He told me I owed him for the tires, and not to worry about the rest. He said the two tires were $3, but refused to take any cash. That was some time between 1975 and 1978. I had the bike till the mid 80's when the right chain stay broke off the BB shell. We brazed it but it didn't hold, so it got hung in a wall in the garage and forgotten about.

It funny how stuff like that gets remembered after so many years.
The guy drove a musty old black '46 Desoto, the car had very low miles and he only used it when he went to pickup parts somewhere.
He had a '48 Ford that he said belonged to his wife, who had passed away years before, The Ford was his daily driver. Both cars were 'well aged' looking but not rusty. One of the last things I did while I worked there was to help him change the clutch in the Desoto. (On the ground, in the driveway in November int he dark after the shop closed). I would have loved to own either of those cars, neither one had more than 20k on the odometer. At the time, they were just 'old' cars and I don't think I had much interest in them then though. The guy just hated to drive his cars though and did most of his local errands on a bicycle or an old side car army motorcycle.
It's a shame so many shops like that are gone now, and the tooling scrapped or cast away into a basement somewhere. Guys like that knew a lot about these old bikes and the parts and hubs that went into them. Something like that press sounds like a very useful tool. For the press-in cups, Sheldon Brown recommended a hammer/punch to remove and a hammer/block to reset. A press with a controlled lever action would be a more precise and repeatable solution. But we have what we have now. The old bike shop in the closest city to the small town where I live closed about 10 years ago. I remember they had an unused Schwinn Black Phantom in the window that sat for years and years. I wonder where it went.
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Old 03-18-22, 06:38 AM
  #25811  
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Dunelt camelback for $100 in NC.

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Old 03-18-22, 06:05 PM
  #25812  
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Getting this 1964 Schwinn Traveler project ready for spring. It has been sitting more or less ready for final adjustment and testing for about two months now. Looking forward to warm weather and no more road salt...



The Silver Bullet tail light goes well with a 1950s-60s era bike.

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Old 03-19-22, 03:59 AM
  #25813  
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
It's a shame so many shops like that are gone now, and the tooling scrapped or cast away into a basement somewhere. Guys like that knew a lot about these old bikes and the parts and hubs that went into them. Something like that press sounds like a very useful tool. For the press-in cups, Sheldon Brown recommended a hammer/punch to remove and a hammer/block to reset. A press with a controlled lever action would be a more precise and repeatable solution. But we have what we have now. The old bike shop in the closest city to the small town where I live closed about 10 years ago. I remember they had an unused Schwinn Black Phantom in the window that sat for years and years. I wonder where it went.
In the past 25 years I've cleaned out quite a few old shops, many had been sitting for years before the family decided to let it all go and either make use of or sell the property.
I think back in the day, having parts on hand was both a lot cheaper to do as the parts weren't nearly as expensive as they were in later years and bike manufacturers actually had parts distribution divisions. These days that just don't exist. Just about all parts are obtained through the aftermarket unless its a warranty issue, and even then they're more likely to just scrap the bike and replace it then ship out parts and pay labor. I think its as simple as the bikes don't cost the supplier as much as a few hours of American labor to repair it will. Manufacturers have gone to China for their bikes because they're cheap and it raises their profit margin. Many if not most are likely cheap enough to just write off when something goes wrong.

Back in the day, I worked for a shop that kept 50 of everything in stock, they had racks full of wheels, tires, rolls of every type of chain, huge assortments of spokes, whole rooms full of misc. parts to cover just about anything that came through the door. No body ever walked in the door and asked for something that they didn't have. Today, most dealers don't even carry spokes, many don't even do repairs, let alone building wheels or fixing frames. Forget doing anything but ordering a new wheel if an internal gear hub needs work.
I'm not sure if any of the local dealers here would even have a set of tires in stock. (I wasn't able to buy a set of cruiser tires three years ago). When I asked what they do if a customer comes in with a flat, he said he's got a mechanic that comes around once a week who does repairs. He had a list of repairs and their prices. One thing that stood out to me was "2 tire replacement with tubes - $45 plus parts"
When I asked where the mechanic gets the parts he said the guy leaves him a list every Thursday, he orders the parts, and he comes back the following Thursday to do the work.
He then pointed to the bottom of the page where it read "There will be a $10 special order parts charge on all parts ordered" and and "Outside Repair Fee of $15 on each repair".
When I asked out of curiosity how much they would charge to change two beach cruiser tires and tubes he said the tires are $39.99, tubes are $15.99, plus $45 labor, and a $10 order fee, and the $15 fee on the "Outside repair".. Two tires would have run someone $180 with labor and all their fees. He explained that without the $10 special order fee and the $15 outside labor fee he wouldn't make any money on the repair. The rest he said was out of his control. To me it sounded more like "I don't want to be bothered with repairs, go away". Most shops don't even assemble their own bikes, citing liability issues, they all use a roving bike assembler just like Walmart and Target.

As to the hub press, I had a rig years ago that came from a NY area shop I cleaned out 20+ years ago, they apparently sold mostly English bikes and were well stocked and well set up for repairs.
They had what looked like an adjustable height arbor press with a hub holding fixture. Among the parts that came from there were a few dozen left side bearing cups for later hubs, and dozens of new shells as well. The press looked like a combination of a small drill press and an arbor press, but it had a 30" arm on it and was gear driven. I wasn't sure if it was an adaptation of a reloading press, a machine shop tool, or something converted from leather working. The key was the fixture that held the hub. Like mentioned before, one side of the fixture was used to remove the left side, then the hub and fixture got flipped and the other side would let you push the new ball cup in place.
I also seem to recall there being an instruction sheet with the new bearing cups, I believe it stated that the new press in cups could be used to replace the threaded cups by simply pressing them in place and disregarding the threads.
I wouldn't do that myself since finding new or good used threaded cups isn't that difficult but I have removed a few left side cups and found threads, which made me think that maybe in the early transition days of threaded to press fit cups they were using up some threaded hub shells with the new press fit left side bearings cups.
Keep in mind that Sturmey Archer was just coming off the SW fiasco and had ended SW production in either late '59 or early '60, and had just gone through the T.I. buyout, then a little over year later they came out with the press fit left bearing cup.
I often wondered how much the losses from the SW failure contributed to them looking to save money on the AW to possibly recoup some of those losses. Possibly a strategy put forth by the new ownership.

Personally I never saw a problem with the press fit hubs, but I've likely got a few hundred spares and won't ever run out. I tend to use the hub style and date to match the bike at hand.

If using a mechanical or hydraulic press, take care not to over press the hub on reassembly. The hub shells are sturdy but they can be crushed. I found a few that were obviously 'failures' in the scrap bucket under the bench at that same shop.
Whether it matters much or not, but when replacing the press fit left side cups, I like to put a light coat of shellac or sealer with the thought of making that fit leak free. On threaded bearings cups, on both sides, I also use a tiny bit of liquid Teflon sealer to stop oil from seeping out through the threads. Of course this tends to eliminate the self rust proofing feature of these hubs.
I ran into a few hubs where someone used Loctite on the threads, all that did was make repairs harder than they needed to be.
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Old 03-19-22, 04:58 AM
  #25814  
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
^^ Looking forward to them!



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Old 03-19-22, 06:59 AM
  #25815  
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A little after pic of the oily rag resto I did on the 72 Sports. Exumed from its 30 year entombment in a dank cellar, there's lots of rusty spots on the frame. I cleaned it up best I could, replaced tyres, and replaced some heavily rusted chrome bits with parts from a donor. Overall, I think it looks good enough going down the street.
The rims still have patches of pealed chrome on the the sides which will eventually tear up the pads, so I'll keep an eye out for replacements.
the spokes are dulled by oxidation. Any method of brightening them short of disassembly?
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Old 03-19-22, 08:38 AM
  #25816  
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Originally Posted by BanderAus View Post



Nice work. The bike looks like it's ready for some serious travelling.
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Old 03-19-22, 09:16 AM
  #25817  
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1954 Mystery 3 Speed
I've posted this one before but I thought I would revisit...

By all appearances, this should be an English 3 speed Club bike.
The headbadge reads Gold Medal and is surely not original

There is a Made in Canada sticker on the seat tube

The rear stay has an attached hanger for (I assume) a Cyclo derailleur.



Rims are EA1

The Front forks are stamped Tru-welll Made in England
The BB is stamped Bayliss-Wiley, England.
My current best guess is that it's a Sunshine Club

The chainring matches and the colour scheme is true to Sunshine bicycles

There is alsoa serial stamped number,Y5447....
Go figure....

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Old 03-19-22, 12:19 PM
  #25818  
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gster : those seat stays are kinda unique - the way they are welded onto the lug/dropout.....
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Old 03-19-22, 02:12 PM
  #25819  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
gster : those seat stays are kinda unique - the way they are welded onto the lug/dropout.....
Yes...all in all quite a mystery.
It could also be a Canadian built SCP bike

Similar colour scheme..

Here's a SCP 3 speed with similar geometry
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Old 03-19-22, 04:39 PM
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'Gold Medal' was a trademark of D.P. Harris in New York, (Rollfast). I think I've got a badge here somewhere that I took off a 24" ladies model years ago that had a bent frame. It looked a lot like the one with the basket in your pic above. Possibly Gold Medal was a badge they put on bikes from other sources besides Snyder?
The badge I took off it was the same profile and shape as an early prewar Rollfast badge. The bike had no decals on it, just some paint graphics. The fenders, rims, and chainguard were aluminum. It had Westrick pattern wheels in 24x1 3/8". The rims were odd in that they had small holes drilled all along each edge about every inch.
It had a super ornate chainguard, the fenders were the same shape as those in the pic above, it had glass reflector pedals with 1/2" threads, and the strangest of all was the bars and grips. The bars were 1" clamp and bars, as were the grips, which were red to match the bike, but they were molded similar to those that came on 60's and 70's Columbia three speeds. The grips were originally red but had been sun bleached to a white/pink color. The rear hub was a 28h Durex which looked out of place. The rear fender had lacing holes for a skirt guard.

The bike had been out of commission for a long time when I got it via clean out in the late 90's. I stripped it for its parts, sold what I couldn't use and kept the badge, pedals, and the bars. The saddle was a messinger model, it looked the same as what was used on most Schwinn middleweight bikes but without the trademark 'S'. It also had a chrome grab rail around the rear.
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Old 03-20-22, 09:00 AM
  #25821  
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It's also possible that this is not a factory built bike.
-British brakes/forks and gears
-Phillips pedals
-German front hub
-Unbranded rims
-Unbranded chainring
It's hard to see in the photo but the top tube is not quite
parallel to the ground.
The bike also has an untapped oil port on the BB....
Perhaps it was a custom build for a serious rider in the mid 1950's.

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Old 03-20-22, 04:49 PM
  #25822  
thumpism 
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Nice looking ladies' Sports for $100 in MI.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...84578433182643

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Old 03-20-22, 06:22 PM
  #25823  
bazil4696
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Gster, where did you get tires for your EA1 rims?
I've got a 1952 Claud Butler tandem with 26 x 1 1/4 EA1 Dunlop rims, and I'm nervous about spare tires.
I'd also consider grabbing another 40 hole Dunlop EA1 rim, because I've got a NOS 40H Sturmey Archer AB hub I'd respoke and hang it on the tandem along with the original Cyclo gears to make a 9 speed hybrid.
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Old 03-21-22, 05:15 PM
  #25824  
gster
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Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

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From Amazon.
You want to look for
Kenda
K23
26 x 1-3/8 x 1-1/4 (ETRTO 37-597) I kept the label.
Also called an S-6
An odd size but they still make them for older Scwinn bikes
I recall they were quite reasonable and fit nicely.
Speaking of.tires,..
I was at Candian Tire today and saw a basic 26 x 1-3/8
tire for $28.99!!!
Last time I bought one (pre covid) they were $15.00!!!!

..
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Old 03-21-22, 06:22 PM
  #25825  
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Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

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I just saw Walmart Canada had them online for...
$91.00
Must be a supply chain issue......
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