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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 05-18-22, 02:45 PM
  #26076  
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Originally Posted by Tyres View Post
I'm reposting this l think. Recently found in the trash an almost mint chocolate brown paint Free Spirit exact same brown as my 20 and other Raleigh products. Is it a Raleigh? Regardless l intend to scorcherize it. All the deraileur and levers were crap and seriously rusted however the brakes themselves were upgrades and look like Tectros. The dropbars were pretty rusted and anyhow l'm going uprights. I also have a pinkish 5speed deraileur women's triumph. I plan on taking the stem and handlebars, northroads l think and transferring them over to the free spirit.the tires tubes and 26" steel rims arayas weren't rusty and will all be reused.
.For now this'll be scorcher light as l don't have an SA hub, it'll be a coaster for now with a front brake. Or if l find a Shimano S3C which l've got on my winter 3 speed and l really like.
.They both have Sugino cranks and chainrings 8", if l'm gonna temporarily run a coaster hub and chain A. Will the chain fit? B. Can l use the double ring 10 speed chainring (only the large one) or do . I have to pull the single ring from the triumph and replace the Free Spirits double ring?
. Thanks Keith
Free Spirit was an in house brand for Sears and probably Simpsons in Canada.
Like the Supercycle brand the bikes were supplied a variety of manufacturers.
I don't think Raleigh was one of them.
I would guess your bike to be Japanese or Austrian
Swapping parts from a British bike to non British could prove troublesome.....
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Old 05-19-22, 08:03 AM
  #26077  
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We have a nice, new pedestrian bridge here that was built in the past few months. And the weather is getting a bit warmer finally as well. The leaves all came out in the past week or 10 days - all at once sort of thing. Hopefully a good riding season ahead.



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Old 05-19-22, 09:37 AM
  #26078  
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
We have a nice, new pedestrian bridge here that was built in the past few months. And the weather is getting a bit warmer finally as well. The leaves all came out in the past week or 10 days - all at once sort of thing. Hopefully a good riding season ahead.
Always nice that we pedestrian and cyclists are thought of on occasion.
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Old 05-19-22, 11:15 AM
  #26079  
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NARROW shoulders.

Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
They have. Its a bit uncomfortable unless you have narrow shoulders.
No more narrower than all the drop bar riders. In a way l find regular northroads to be a little wide for inner city driving. With cars parked on your right and the new streetcars 5 cars long brushing your handlebars on the left. It can be a stressful harrowing experience. I'm trying to find a more comfortable handlebar on account of the titanium plate the docs put in my right wrist, l can't wave up and down only side to side, like the queen, ta ta. The plate's screwed into the top of my hand and the arm bone above the wrist. My left holds the northroads grips with the fingers knuckles towards the ground the right hand knuckles without the wrist bend point forward.to operate the right brake l have to raise my elbow to about 90degrees.

Last edited by Tyres; 05-19-22 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Wasn't finished.
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Old 05-19-22, 11:37 AM
  #26080  
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Tyres : sorry to hear about the mobility issue. I used a set of these generic bars on one of my drop bar bikes - slightly wider than drop bars and quite comfortable to ride in the city….


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Old 05-19-22, 05:11 PM
  #26081  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
Tyres : sorry to hear about the mobility issue. I used a set of these generic bars on one of my drop bar bikes - slightly wider than drop bars and quite comfortable to ride in the city….


A wide bar like yours wouldn't quite work as my hand goes straight out from my arm, there's no little bend at the wrist to hold a grip. Surprisingly l can grip the centre of drop bars ok. I imagine those little straight bars out from headsets would work as they're right in front of me which was why l was considering cutting down drop bars to make narrow level uprights, with maybe a little downward slope. It's my knees getting in the way that may pose a problem.
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Old 05-19-22, 05:23 PM
  #26082  
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Originally Posted by Tyres View Post
With cars parked on your right and the new streetcars 5 cars long brushing your handlebars on the left. It can be a stressful harrowing experience.
Toronto guy, for sure. I've hit the sides of the #504 Queen East street car more than a few times.

I cut my first mtn bike bars short for the same reason, safety margins while commuting. And then I trimmed a bit more. And again.

I'd suggest doing the same because when you get real short, your control becomes fussy. I used a pipe cutter, file and sand paper to finish
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Old 05-19-22, 08:04 PM
  #26083  
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Hi fellows. I'm looking to install a Williams five-pin crank (sourced from our neighbour clubman ) on my '51 Sun Wasp. I'm a little stumped by the chainring bolts (see below). How do I install them? I believe they are Whitworth sizing. Are they meant to install without a nut on the other end? I've seen photos where the end of the bolt is flush with the hole on the shiny side of the chainwheel once bolted to the crank arm. My concern is that they seem too short / I don't have the correct tool to properly set them into place.

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Old 05-19-22, 10:50 PM
  #26084  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Toronto guy, for sure. I've hit the sides of the #504 Queen East street car more than a few times.

I cut my first mtn bike bars short for the same reason, safety margins while commuting. And then I trimmed a bit more. And again.

I'd suggest doing the same because when you get real short, your control becomes fussy. I used a pipe cutter, file and sand paper to finish
Sometimes I hold onto the back of the streetcar and let it pull me along for a bit
The "new" streetcars are ridiculously long...
Progress!
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Old 05-20-22, 06:51 AM
  #26085  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
Hi fellows. I'm looking to install a Williams five-pin crank (sourced from our neighbour clubman ) on my '51 Sun Wasp. I'm a little stumped by the chainring bolts (see below). How do I install them? I believe they are Whitworth sizing. Are they meant to install without a nut on the other end? I've seen photos where the end of the bolt is flush with the hole on the shiny side of the chainwheel once bolted to the crank arm. My concern is that they seem too short / I don't have the correct tool to properly set them into place.

There were two lengths - one for flush (no nut) and the other for a nut on the pedal side. They work fine either way. I just used a regular wrench from the BB side.


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Old 05-20-22, 07:14 AM
  #26086  
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They mount from the inside and sit flush with the outside. A little threadlocker wouldn't hurt. A small adjustable works fine.



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Old 05-20-22, 09:38 AM
  #26087  
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Nothing British 3 speed Scorcher, hows a bout a Screecher?

Originally Posted by gster View Post
Free Spirit was an in house brand for Sears and probably Simpsons in Canada.
Like the Supercycle brand the bikes were supplied a variety of manufacturers.
I don't think Raleigh was one of them.
I would guess your bike to be Japanese or Austrian
Swapping parts from a British bike to non British could prove troublesome.....
l had looked for info on FS and saw no British in em and because the coaster rear l had was a 28 " ss Komet super, l was going with Austrian. Alas it only had a single nut that appeared bigger than most hub nuts l had.Tried about 20 none worked. As l'm close to Biseagle local lbs and famed vintage mech Malcolm Munro thought l'd see if he had a spare.he didn't measured threading odd 24 tpi.after discussing my goal of a shimano 3 speed coaster he suggested why not do it now, l think the shimano and komet have interchangeable guts, l'd get the hub l wanted and the hub nuts would no longer be an issue.is. Does this sound true oh knowledgeable gurus?
Now, because the crank and chainring are Sugino, the hubs a komet with S3C innards .This maybe Austrian or Japenese FS is now a little of both.lf l take the single chainring off the Trumph well it's Japenese , the only Britishy thing on it is maybe the Northroads bars which l'm not sold on yet, still going to test, cut down drop bars.Oh ya, the Raleigh chocolate colour which is what begun this whole excersise.
Now, about the Sugino chainrings, the S3C, and the chain line. If, can l use the double chainring already on the bike employing just the larger ring? Is a coaster chain compatible with chainrings from a dereiler bike?
Another selling point in this build is the in frame channels to hopefully guide the hub shifter cable. Keith

Last edited by Tyres; 05-20-22 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Mistake by auto correct
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Old 05-20-22, 01:11 PM
  #26088  
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Originally Posted by Tyres View Post
l had looked for info on FS and saw no British in em and because the coaster rear l had was a 28 " ss Komet super, l was going with Austrian. Alas it only had a single nut that appeared bigger than most hub nuts l had.Tried about 20 none worked. As l'm close to Biseagle local lbs and famed vintage mech Malcolm Munro thought l'd see if he had a spare.he didn't measured threading odd 24 tpi.after discussing my goal of a shimano 3 speed coaster he suggested why not do it now, l think the shimano and komet have interchangeable guts, l'd get the hub l wanted and the hub nuts would no longer be an issue.is. Does this sound true oh knowledgeable gurus?
Now, because the crank and chainring are Sugino, the hubs a komet with S3C innards .This maybe Austrian or Japenese FS is now a little of both.lf l take the single chainring off the Trumph well it's Japenese , the only Britishy thing on it is maybe the Northroads bars which l'm not sold on yet, still going to test, cut down drop bars.Oh ya, the Raleigh chocolate colour which is what begun this whole excersise.
Now, about the Sugino chainrings, the S3C, and the chain line. If, can l use the double chainring already on the bike employing just the larger ring? Is a coaster chain compatible with chainrings from a dereiler bike?
Another selling point in this build is the in frame channels to hopefully guide the hub shifter cable. Keith
It's likely a Puch-Steyr built bike, as you thought. The Fichtel & Sachs hubs often came with a 10mm axle that are almost unobtanium short of finding another hub. Maybe a total hub swap will be easier than changing the internals.
As far as the chainrings, you can always use a 1/8" single speed chain if a 3/16" won't work. Or you can make grind out splines on a hyperglide cog of any size you want with files or a dremel and keep the derailleur chain.
Another thought is that maybe the S3C has Raleigh 26 tpi threaded axle?

Last edited by clubman; 05-20-22 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 05-20-22, 02:23 PM
  #26089  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
It's likely a Puch-Steyr built bike, as you thought. The Fichtel & Sachs hubs often came with a 10mm axle that are almost unobtanium short of finding another hub. Maybe a total hub swap will be easier than changing the internals.
As far as the chainrings, you can always use a 1/8" single speed chain if a 3/16" won't work. Or you can make grind out splines on a hyperglide cog of any size you want with files or a dremel and keep the derailleur chain.
Another thought is that maybe the S3C has Raleigh 26 tpi threaded axle?
I've read about those axle nuts being very hard to locate.
I just stripped an axle nut on an SA hub but luckily, I have a good supply of spares.
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Old 05-20-22, 06:51 PM
  #26090  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
There were two lengths - one for flush (no nut) and the other for a nut on the pedal side. They work fine either way. I just used a regular wrench from the BB side.


Originally Posted by clubman View Post
They mount from the inside and sit flush with the outside. A little threadlocker wouldn't hurt. A small adjustable works fine.



I think I've got a Williams sleeved crank designed for the sleeved bolts which seem to be unobtanium at this point - the crank has depressions for the sleeve bolts, and the holes are wider than the square head bolts I have, as a result the square head bolts will not hold the ring to the crank. That's OK. Other priorities are pointing me in the direction of accepting the Wasp as a Bitsa for the next couple of years until I have the time and scratch to have it painted - I may find a silver SR 170mm 48T crank + cup and cone bracket and sell my two Williams cranks on so they can be useful on another classic.
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Old 05-20-22, 07:41 PM
  #26091  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
I think I've got a Williams sleeved crank designed for the sleeved bolts which seem to be unobtanium at this point - the crank has depressions for the sleeve bolts, and the holes are wider than the square head bolts I have, as a result the square head bolts will not hold the ring to the crank. That's OK. Other priorities are pointing me in the direction of accepting the Wasp as a Bitsa for the next couple of years until I have the time and scratch to have it painted - I may find a silver SR 170mm 48T crank + cup and cone bracket and sell my two Williams cranks on so they can be useful on another classic.
Send me a pic with the dimensions? Maybe I've got a larger bolt for your crank.

Also, I told you it was the right crank so as it's not, I'd be happy to refund and take it back, my expense.

Last edited by clubman; 05-20-22 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 05-22-22, 10:35 AM
  #26092  
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Originally Posted by Tyres View Post
l had looked for info on FS and saw no British in em and because the coaster rear l had was a 28 " ss Komet super, l was going with Austrian. Alas it only had a single nut that appeared bigger than most hub nuts l had.Tried about 20 none worked. As l'm close to Biseagle local lbs and famed vintage mech Malcolm Munro thought l'd see if he had a spare.he didn't measured threading odd 24 tpi.after discussing my goal of a shimano 3 speed coaster he suggested why not do it now, l think the shimano and komet have interchangeable guts, l'd get the hub l wanted and the hub nuts would no longer be an issue.is. Does this sound true oh knowledgeable gurus?
Now, because the crank and chainring are Sugino, the hubs a komet with S3C innards .This maybe Austrian or Japenese FS is now a little of both.lf l take the single chainring off the Trumph well it's Japenese , the only Britishy thing on it is maybe the Northroads bars which l'm not sold on yet, still going to test, cut down drop bars.Oh ya, the Raleigh chocolate colour which is what begun this whole excersise.
Now, about the Sugino chainrings, the S3C, and the chain line. If, can l use the double chainring already on the bike employing just the larger ring? Is a coaster chain compatible with chainrings from a dereiler bike?
Another selling point in this build is the in frame channels to hopefully guide the hub shifter cable. Keith
I think you need to figure out how much time/energy and money you want to commit to this project.
In the end you may find that it's cheaper/less frustrating to buy another bike that suits your needs and then add some
shortie bars. When the "fixie" fad was booming, I saw lots of bikes with bars barely the width of your hand...
I've cut down several over the years, mostly mountain bike style that were far too wide

Here is a Japanese Bridgestone that was converted to an SA 3 speed drive train.
It can be done but I had all the parts on hand and maybe only spent a few $$ on fresh cables and pads.
This bike was given as a gift to a young lady across the street. She later came back and asked for the bars to be inverted.

The bike when I first got it.

Likely as it was from the factory
These were sold here in Canada under the Canadian Tire Super Cycle brand

Last edited by gster; 05-22-22 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 05-23-22, 10:25 PM
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Looks like a 23" ladies' in nice shape for $125 in MD.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...37971751731505

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Old 05-24-22, 05:23 PM
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$25 Puch with Sturmey in PA.

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Old 05-26-22, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Send me a pic with the dimensions? Maybe I've got a larger bolt for your crank.

Also, I told you it was the right crank so as it's not, I'd be happy to refund and take it back, my expense.
No worries. Apologies for the tardy response, we just got power / internet back after some days here in Ottawa. Here's the pic of the crank:

PXL_20220520_164917517

So I think it needs a different kind of bolt than what I've got.
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Old 05-27-22, 06:42 AM
  #26096  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
No worries. Apologies for the tardy response, we just got power / internet back after some days here in Ottawa. Here's the pic of the crank:

PXL_20220520_164917517

So I think it needs a different kind of bolt than what I've got.
I'll have a look for some bolts this weekend.
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Old 05-27-22, 08:40 AM
  #26097  
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Power loss put a bit of a damper on things.

Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I'll have a look for some bolts this weekend.
Wow what a storm, power was on and off at our place near Marmora.Time to devise an electric bike powered generator of sorts to power lights and devices.
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Old 05-27-22, 09:48 AM
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The Ontario Science Centre had a popular interactive room to test all sorts of things, one of them being a pedal powered incandescent light bulb. It was astonishing how difficult it was to keep the bulb lit. I'm sure there's more modern and efficient generators as well as our low power LED lights but it would still be a serious amount of work to say, light a house during an outage.
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Old 05-27-22, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
The Ontario Science Centre had a popular interactive room to test all sorts of things, one of them being a pedal powered incandescent light bulb. It was astonishing how difficult it was to keep the bulb lit. I'm sure there's more modern and efficient generators as well as our low power LED lights but it would still be a serious amount of work to say, light a house during an outage.
Peddle power is a novel and interesting idea, but I think solar power would be more efficient.
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Old 05-27-22, 11:05 AM
  #26100  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
The Ontario Science Centre had a popular interactive room to test all sorts of things, one of them being a pedal powered incandescent light bulb. It was astonishing how difficult it was to keep the bulb lit. I'm sure there's more modern and efficient generators as well as our low power LED lights but it would still be a serious amount of work to say, light a house during an outage.
I was thinking the exact thing!
We used to pedal like crazy to try to impress the girls...
It was exhausting!
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