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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 02-18-23, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
I have a number of NOS 28" replacement forks albeit with standard threading. They are white, easily painted and available for you or anyone else for the price of shipping. Long steerers too.
Thanks, that's good to know. I won't be needing one but anyone interested in this bike would almost certainly want one.
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Old 02-18-23, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
Welp, sad news for you Tourist tourists. I swung by late today to get it if I could, and I could so I did, but it is not the bike--or the bike bones--that we expected/hoped/wanted it to be. Something happened to the left fork blade.

Aside from that heartbreaking detail, the frame and its finish are in pretty decent shape. Paint looks good-ish for the most part.

Hub date is January of '81, so one of the later bikes I've come across. Note the corrosion on the spokes, of which one is bent and pulled the nipple through the rim. Despite this, the rear wheel is astonishingly straight although there are rust patches on the rim.

Never seen a chaincase rusted through like this.

So that's the bike of our collective dreams and speculation. It's in my garage. I don't want it but there are many useful pieces on it for someone in need. Fenders are okay but stays are all bent up, rod brake hardware is mostly there but missing the front pads and a couple of small fasteners, bars and levers are decent. No idea if the Sturmey hub is good but you don't find many bad ones, so I'll need to put an indicator chain on it and see if it shifts.

There you have it. Let me know what the next steps should be. I'd like to see it go to a devotee or, barring that, to a different crazy person. I won't miss it and I think I already have a 40H hub rattling around here somewhere so I don't really need anything on this poor old bike. Thanks for following along.
It looks as if the chaincase and one fork blade spent way too much time in mud and rotted out (unless the fork was cut - didn't look at the pic that close, to be honest - taking care of a million things here at the moment).

If it's an '81, does it have the larger 10mm axle slots instead of 8mm? If so, one of clubman's forks plus a pair of 700C rims and a coaster brake ought to make that a usable Raleigh Tourist again.

Question - that spoke that pulled through, was that from the rim breaking through or the spoke nipple splitting?

Question #2, but a stupid one: Any chance you'd have the time to get a rough shipping quote to Florida and possibly throw the carcass in a box (even skipping most of the usual box protection?) I really can't justify another project myself, but seeing as I'm the one who goaded you into it, and also seeing as [MENTION=185977]clubman[/MENTION] has the fork, I'm open to volunteering to be the one who gets this back together into a usable form (unless, of course, there's someone local to you willing to pick it up).

I have one spare high-polish front 700C rim from an Electra Loft 7i that would be a perfect fit; it would just need another for the rear. I have a spare coaster hub and enough spokes kicking about that I should have the right size on hand to build the rear wheel from that.

Would make for a fun Box of Crap build. Honestly, it'll probably wind up being the best riding Tourist I've ever been on, seeing as it won't be dependent on rod brakes and questionably round rims

-Kurt
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Old 02-18-23, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
It looks as if the chaincase and one fork blade spent way too much time in mud and rotted out (unless the fork was cut - didn't look at the pic that close, to be honest - taking care of a million things here at the moment).

If it's an '81, does it have the larger 10mm axle slots instead of 8mm? If so, one of clubman's forks plus a pair of 700C rims and a coaster brake ought to make that a usable Raleigh Tourist again.

Question - that spoke that pulled through, was that from the rim breaking through or the spoke nipple splitting?

Question #2, but a stupid one: Any chance you'd have the time to get a rough shipping quote to Florida and possibly throw the carcass in a box (even skipping most of the usual box protection?) I really can't justify another project myself, but seeing as I'm the one who goaded you into it, and also seeing as [MENTION=185977]clubman[/MENTION] has the fork, I'm open to volunteering to be the one who gets this back together into a usable form (unless, of course, there's someone local to you willing to pick it up).

I have one spare high-polish front 700C rim from an Electra Loft 7i that would be a perfect fit; it would just need another for the rear. I have a spare coaster hub and enough spokes kicking about that I should have the right size on hand to build the rear wheel from that.

Would make for a fun Box of Crap build. Honestly, it'll probably wind up being the best riding Tourist I've ever been on, seeing as it won't be dependent on rod brakes and questionably round rims

-Kurt
I'll take a closer look tomorrow and get back to you. I'm being expelled from the house for a few days next week while they sand and refinish the floors, so I guess I'll just have to be in the garage. Might actually get something done out there.
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Old 02-18-23, 11:08 PM
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Here’s a story you might enjoy. I had an afternoon to kill in Eugene OR in August, so i rented a share bike and took a ride up the river trail. On the way back, i came across a woman on a trike who appeared to significantly exceed my meager seventy years. I rode along a while and we had a nice chat.

It turns out that she recently got the trike, because her balance had degraded. I asked her what she had been riding, and it was only one previous bike: a Hercules three speed, which she’d been riding since it was new.

I was delighted to tell her that my first geared bike was a Hercules three speed.
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Old 02-19-23, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by canalligators
Here’s a story you might enjoy. I had an afternoon to kill in Eugene OR in August, so i rented a share bike and took a ride up the river trail. On the way back, i came across a woman on a trike who appeared to significantly exceed my meager seventy years. I rode along a while and we had a nice chat.

It turns out that she recently got the trike, because her balance had degraded. I asked her what she had been riding, and it was only one previous bike: a Hercules three speed, which she’d been riding since it was new.

I was delighted to tell her that my first geared bike was a Hercules three speed.
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Old 02-19-23, 08:48 AM
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Ah, a 1948 Hercules three-speed, an AW copy that violated Sturmey-Archer patents.

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Old 02-19-23, 04:41 PM
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More DL-1 drama here, showing the spoke nipple that pulled through the rear rim. And the rust. If I needed a Tourist rear rim I could make this one work. Have not seen it with the tire off yet but if the rust is no worse I'd washer that nipple and slap the wheel back on the bike. It's not even out of true.

Without having spent more time with the bike here's what I'd do; toss the fork and use the frame, headset, stem/bar combo and all the rod brake hardware, fenders, seatpost, and crankset. I'm tossing the chaincase but saving the little cover from the back end and its screws. Chain is toast. I'd use the rear wheel unless I had a better one. Crappy mattress saddle can stay or go. I'd cut off the other fork blade to make shipping easier. Without the rear wheel it could be a fairly compact package. Just putting this out there. Might have more details tomorrow.
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Old 02-19-23, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
More DL-1 drama here, showing the spoke nipple that pulled through the rear rim. And the rust. If I needed a Tourist rear rim I could make this one work. Have not seen it with the tire off yet but if the rust is no worse I'd washer that nipple and slap the wheel back on the bike. It's not even out of true.

Without having spent more time with the bike here's what I'd do; toss the fork and use the frame, headset, stem/bar combo and all the rod brake hardware, fenders, seatpost, and crankset. I'm tossing the chaincase but saving the little cover from the back end and its screws. Chain is toast. I'd use the rear wheel unless I had a better one. Crappy mattress saddle can stay or go. I'd cut off the other fork blade to make shipping easier. Without the rear wheel it could be a fairly compact package. Just putting this out there. Might have more details tomorrow.
I had a suspicion it pulled through. Someone screwed up the cross lacing on three of the spokes on my '79 Rudge and the holes are visibly bent from it; these rims aren't very strong at all.

I'm thinking along the same lines, but also retiring the rod brake hardware. In my experience, no matter how nice one of these are, the rod brakes are a pulsating mess that never gives good brake feel no matter how much effort or perfection one throws at them. I'm no coaster brake fan, but I think a pair of 700C's with suitable tires and a coaster could turn this into something pretty enjoyable.

Keeping my ears open on this one. clubman, any chance I can bug you for a shipping quote on one of those forks?

-Kurt
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Old 02-19-23, 06:38 PM
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Glad to know I'm not the only one who does not love rod brakes or coaster brakes. As I've said before, I like the idea of the Raleigh Tourist more than I like the actual bike.
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Old 02-19-23, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
Glad to know I'm not the only one who does not love rod brakes or coaster brakes. As I've said before, I like the idea of the Raleigh Tourist more than I like the actual bike.
We're in the same exact camp then. I really want to try one with rod-operated drums and hope that the experience is much more pleasant, floppy front wheel and all.

I've got a really beat-up '50s Tourist Superbe here that I need to put back together; finding it difficult to get motivated knowing it's going to brake like crap.

-Kurt
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Old 02-20-23, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
We're in the same exact camp then. I really want to try one with rod-operated drums and hope that the experience is much more pleasant, floppy front wheel and all.-Kurt
That sounds like a great idea. Has it been tried before?
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Old 02-20-23, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
That sounds like a great idea. Has it been tried before?
I think the ones I've seen like that are Dutch and not English, but I could be wrong.
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Old 02-20-23, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
I think the ones I've seen like that are Dutch and not English, but I could be wrong.
Pretty sure there were at least some models in the 1930's which came in this configuration; I know I've seen a Raleigh with factory linkage a long time ago; since lost to the Wayback Machine (good luck finding it). I can't seem to find the '36 Humber catalog, but I seem to recall a rod drum brake version of my Cob Tourist available as an option.

Indeed, Dutch examples too, and I wouldn't be surprised if some 1970's-era Forevers or Flying Pigeons may have been produced with drum operated rod brakes.

-Kurt
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Old 02-20-23, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888

Keeping my ears open on this one. clubman, any chance I can bug you for a shipping quote on one of those forks?

-Kurt
Will do...
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Old 02-20-23, 09:35 AM
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I briefly had a late '70s DL1 Tourist. I bought it in pieces, and spent a few dollars replacing the missing items. I put it all back together and rode it around, and they are a lovely bike to ride--the slack angles are very enjoyable. Unfortunately, the bike was too big for me--I couldn't straddle the top bar--and the rod brakes were not very effective. If I could find a 22" DL1 and set it up with drum brakes, that would be a very enjoyable ride.
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Old 02-20-23, 10:40 AM
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Okay, this is my last post about this thing. I really should have posted in the Wrenching thread instead of clogging up this one but I got some time on it this morning, as far as I'm going to go with it until it gets boxed up.

This is the washering I mentioned. Seems to work. Wheel spins straight and true and the inside of the rim is surprisingly rust free.


I'd probably find a different washer and shape it to be a little concave to reduce the lump under the rim strip, but this is proof of concept.


The old indicator chain was broken off so I dug out a replacement but all of mine are shorter than the OG. Oiled the hub but will let someone else worry about the overhauling. I messed with it a bit and it seems to shift. The chain they had on it was the shortest possible; axle ends slammed up against the front of the dropouts and I could barely turn the cranks. Once the rusty chain came off the crank spins smoothly so that was not the issue.


I decided to keep the useless chaincase to enhance the decor of the garage. Certain to impress those in the know.


I'm bagging all the little bits and fasteners for whoever throws himself on this thing. Whoever you are, I wish you luck.

P.S. Front fender NOT okay, as it turns out, but might be straightenable.
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Old 02-20-23, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
That sounds like a great idea. Has it been tried before?
Yes! Raleigh made a kit for this purpose (IIRC, mostly for the front). Of course if you already have the frame you really don't need to run rod activation. Its easy enough to use cable activation too, so you could run more conventional handlebars. If you're not a stickler for period-correct, the modern SA from drum brake works pretty well. Its a bit harder to find the vintage SA drum brake hubs, which are the type 'AB'. There's one on ebay right now but the hub body looks a bit dreadful. Of course SA makes drum brake 3-speed hubs right now.
Drum brakes were optionally offered on Sports models and the like going back to the 1930s.

Running drums on a DL1 would be nice- you get the stately ride and can stop, even in the rain.
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Old 02-20-23, 12:58 PM
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Raleigh DL1 Tourist

Originally Posted by SirMike1983
Around here, that pair might sell for $100, probably not for much more. I live in a fairly rural, hilly area and 3-speeds are not popular here. People seem to like how they look, but most of the bikes I see are mountain or road bikes with 10+ speeds, or more recently, e-bikes. I'd pay more for an old 3 speed around here than most people would, but I'm one of the few people who specifically looks for them. I'm surprised at how quickly e-bikes are proliferating here. I now see 1 brand new e-bike on the road for every 2 regular bikes I see. I bet within the next two years it will be 50/50.

If you want his & hers 3-speeds as a Valentine's Day present, I'd say they're worth $200, given that $200 doesn't actually buy much any more. And there is $200 worth of parts there if you are the less romantic type. The bigger issue is the space to store them and the time and parts to fix them. I know I couldn't add two more bikes - I'm out of space to store them and probably won't have time to fix them. As it is, I need to downsize a bit.
A guy on Nextdoor listed a DL1 Tourist for "best offer". I asked him what he wanted (I just needed a rear wheel) and he came back with $1800. I was gobsmacked and told him so. As someone who has restored dozens of Peugeots and can only get $300 for the best ones - and this is in SF area where they are hip! - I could not even conceive of a price like that. He came back with an ebay(?) listing for one at $3000. What!?

haha, should I switch to restoring Raleighs?

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Old 02-20-23, 11:40 PM
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I owned a rod and drum Raleigh that was brought to the US from Denmark. Rod/drum is a configuration you sometimes see on Dutch and Danish market bikes. I sold the bike quite a few years ago. It was a variation of Dawn for the Danish market (Sports-style frame, 26 x 1-3/8 Westrick wheels, but rod/drum brakes).
It was an early 60s bike with green paint. It had fewer frame graphics than most, and a larger white patch on the rear fender than most (Danish market requirement, maybe?). What few frame graphics were there looked to be "export model" type, and pretty worn as it was. It also had a really tall stem - longer than the normal Raleigh 3 speed. The drum brakes get rid of the lurching-stop of stirrup/rod brakes with wheels that aren't perfectly round, but the drums also add quite a bit of rotating wheel weight. A good set of cable brakes stop better, unless it's really, really wet.






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Old 02-21-23, 04:47 AM
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Thumpism: Thanks for the update and expansion on the condition of the Tourist, and that was kind of impressive, getting a washer into that tiny spoke hole.
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Old 02-21-23, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
Thanks, that's good to know. I won't be needing one but anyone interested in this bike would almost certainly want one.
I would love this as a frame only. I have a pair of 28" wheels with a SARM Automatix coaster rear that I am wondering what I want to do with them. Currently they are on a Bridgestone bike here in Cambodia but I want the concept but not the cost to haul the whole bike as I am already bringing back 5 from here this summer.


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Old 02-21-23, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
The drum brakes get rid of the lurching-stop of stirrup/rod brakes with wheels that aren't perfectly round, but the drums also add quite a bit of rotating wheel weight. A good set of cable brakes stop better, unless it's really, really wet.
When the rotating weight is in the hub its insignificant. FWIW they weigh less than a dyno hub...
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Old 02-21-23, 06:50 PM
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Amen, the shoes and the brake mechanism don’t rotate. However I love Mike’s finished bikes.
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Old 02-22-23, 12:53 AM
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I love my Gazelle with Its 5 speed/drum rear and dyno/drum front.


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Old 02-22-23, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
I'm tossing the chaincase but saving the little cover from the back end and its screws.
I've been looking for the back chaincase cover ever since I bought my DL-1 5 years ago! If you're wanting to part with it I would dearly love to obtain it - it would be the finishing part to have a whole DL-1. I'm in Australia - but of course would happily pay for postage.

I've got the rod operated drum version. The braking is very average and does add a lot to the overall weight, but it rides so well I still love taking it out for a ride at least once a week. I have the mudguards (and chaincase) ready to go back on. Before & after photos, you can see the front linkage hanging sadly - I had to source a hub & front wheel, plus have some extra threaded rod welded to the linkage to make it the right length. It also came with a heavy duty 3/16" chain and chainring (non-heron), which I swapped out with 1/8".


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