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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 07-20-23, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesteak
13/32 26tpi is correct. Bike shops should have them, and there are sellers on eBay.

I use SAE 30 oil in my hubs. If the hub works a couple drops occasionally should be fine.

The original front axle should have a stop for the right side(drive side) cone. The cone should be tight against that stop. You adjust the left side cone with a cone wrench, with the wheel on the bike and lock it down with the outside wheel nut. Orientation of the wheel is critical.

if you donít have the original axle you will need a locknut. The axle is 5/16 26 TPI.

I would assume 1974 unless there is a clue it is older.

woohoo! found the nuts in a shop in the next town over, about 5 miles. In my town, we've had 4 bikes shops go out of business in the last five years, one of which fixed old bikes and almost certainly would have had the nuts. Today, I think I bought out their remaining stock of 2. I'm fixing another Raleigh that has the same problem. My Royal Scot is now buttoned up and running (finally!).

Well, glad to know I had stumbled onto the right cone adjustment procedure. I really prefer to do it off the bike so I can spin the wheels in my hands to get the feel right.
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Old 07-21-23, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
woohoo! found the nuts in a shop in the next town over, about 5 miles. In my town, we've had 4 bikes shops go out of business in the last five years, one of which fixed old bikes and almost certainly would have had the nuts. Today, I think I bought out their remaining stock of 2. I'm fixing another Raleigh that has the same problem. My Royal Scot is now buttoned up and running (finally!).

Well, glad to know I had stumbled onto the right cone adjustment procedure. I really prefer to do it off the bike so I can spin the wheels in my hands to get the feel right.
Sounds like my area, we haven't had a bike shop that stocked any sort of parts in over a dozen years. Nowadays I'd be surprised if I found one with tires or tubes in stock.
Forget things like nuts, spokes, or cables. Most don't even put their own new bikes together or fix flats.

I stopped in one shop a few months ago looking for an old style pair of rear saddle baskets like I used to have back in the 70's. I didn't think I needed to show pictures but I was wrong. The worst part was the old guy at the counter was older than I but he had no clue what saddle baskets or rear newsboy baskets were and then he tells me he never heard of Wald.
I should have known better because the last time I stopped that I asked if they had 27" 1 1/4" tires they told me there's no such size. I later found out that bit of info was from the owner.


I'm an hour south of Philly and we've had a few days where we could smell the smoke drifting down from Canada too, 'Smells like Tar' sounds about right. I couldn't put my finger on what the odor was at first, they said it was smoke from a wildfire in Canada but we were smelling what smelled like tires or asphalt burning. A few days were really bad, and its worse at night. About a month ago we had a storm knock out the power after midnight, I was going to open the windows but the smoke was so thick that night I went and fired up the generator to keep the AC on. Because of the smoke, they waited till morning to fix what ever failed. We still smell it from time to time too.
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Old 07-21-23, 05:48 AM
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69 Raleigh Sportsó$40

Thought this might interest someone who follows this thread. Donít know anything about it other than whatís listed in the add.

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/bik...645429048.html


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Old 07-21-23, 08:31 AM
  #27129  
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Originally Posted by sunburst
woohoo! found the nuts in a shop in the next town over, about 5 miles. In my town, we've had 4 bikes shops go out of business in the last five years, one of which fixed old bikes and almost certainly would have had the nuts. Today, I think I bought out their remaining stock of 2. I'm fixing another Raleigh that has the same problem. My Royal Scot is now buttoned up and running (finally!).
If they have front cones for Raleighs, buy them. Most of the bikes I've run across recently have pitted front cones, and it's nearly impossible find new ones.

Well, glad to know I had stumbled onto the right cone adjustment procedure. I really prefer to do it off the bike so I can spin the wheels in my hands to get the feel right.
It would be nice to do it off the bike, but it really needs to be in the forks so you can adjust when the nut gets tightened, otherwise it can be too tight.
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Old 07-21-23, 09:00 AM
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Agree - if they have straight front axles and good cones, buy them. They're always useful to have on hand.

A substantial portion of the cones I've come across are pitted, at least mildly so. If you have cones that are mildly to moderately pitted, they can be spun smooth again on a drill press using a donor axle and careful working of the surface.

Very deeply pitted cones should be replaced with better ones because you can only remove so much material from the cone surface to get down to smooth metal again.
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Old 07-21-23, 09:23 AM
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I seem to have come across quite a few S-A front hubs with bent axles. I’m not sure how that happens, but it’s another part to grab if found. They haven’t made them in something like 50 years!
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Old 07-21-23, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
woohoo! found the nuts in a shop in the next town over, about 5 miles. In my town, we've had 4 bikes shops go out of business in the last five years, one of which fixed old bikes and almost certainly would have had the nuts. Today, I think I bought out their remaining stock of 2. I'm fixing another Raleigh that has the same problem. My Royal Scot is now buttoned up and running (finally!).

Well, glad to know I had stumbled onto the right cone adjustment procedure. I really prefer to do it off the bike so I can spin the wheels in my hands to get the feel right.
One more note:
The cones of the SA 3-speed hub should be set ever so slightly loose. Sturmey Archer sold a tiny cone adjustment wrench for this purpose. Like the front wheel, the best way to set the cone was with the wheel on the bike- the cone wrench is then used to adjust the left side cone (non drive side). The manual says you want a slight amount of slop (they didn't use that word) which can be felt at the rim by moving it left to right. If you set the cones exactly with no slop, it will cause the gears to bind up. I think this is due to a dimensioning error which never got fixed in the +50 year history of the hub. An example of the wrench is at the link. To adjust the cone, have the left side axle nut slightly loose. Set the cone the way you want it. Then tighten up the axle nut. You'll notice that as you do, the cone will lose some of its looseness. If you use a longer cone wrench, which you can get from Park Tool, you can use it to tighten the cone nut against the frame a bit and save yourself a little time going back and forth between the axle nut and the cone nut to get the setting you want.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29575788926...3ABFBM1NDhka9i
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Old 07-21-23, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagebicycle
Sounds like my area, we haven't had a bike shop that stocked any sort of parts in over a dozen years. Nowadays I'd be surprised if I found one with tires or tubes in stock.
Forget things like nuts, spokes, or cables. Most don't even put their own new bikes together or fix flats.

I stopped in one shop a few months ago looking for an old style pair of rear saddle baskets like I used to have back in the 70's. I didn't think I needed to show pictures but I was wrong. The worst part was the old guy at the counter was older than I but he had no clue what saddle baskets or rear newsboy baskets were and then he tells me he never heard of Wald.
I should have known better because the last time I stopped that I asked if they had 27" 1 1/4" tires they told me there's no such size. I later found out that bit of info was from the owner.


I'm an hour south of Philly and we've had a few days where we could smell the smoke drifting down from Canada too, 'Smells like Tar' sounds about right. I couldn't put my finger on what the odor was at first, they said it was smoke from a wildfire in Canada but we were smelling what smelled like tires or asphalt burning. A few days were really bad, and its worse at night. About a month ago we had a storm knock out the power after midnight, I was going to open the windows but the smoke was so thick that night I went and fired up the generator to keep the AC on. Because of the smoke, they waited till morning to fix what ever failed. We still smell it from time to time too.
With the smoke, we've had it smell terrible too (not like wood smoke), and really what's happening is that smoke exposed to sunlight and its UV rays can create a chemical reaction that results in the creation of benzene and formaldehyde, which smell like burning plastic. So when people say the wildfire smoke is a bad sign and recurrences won't be ideal, this is what they mean.
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Old 07-21-23, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I seem to have come across quite a few S-A front hubs with bent axles. Iím not sure how that happens, but itís another part to grab if found. They havenít made them in something like 50 years!
This is why I treasure the 1950s front hub I got off of the Raleigh Canadian - its even got the little black metal grease hole cap. Rear AW with a pencil oil cap:

PXL_20230308_013845246

PXL_20230308_013828607
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Old 07-21-23, 11:56 AM
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There's a $20 bike on Facebook Marketplace near me, and it sure looks like it was built by Raleigh:


Problem: I've got enough bikes already, and my wife would flip.
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Old 07-24-23, 09:12 AM
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The Raleighs visited the Cannon Valley Trail yesterday. Warm day, but lots of shade on the trail.


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Old 07-24-23, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gna
The Raleighs visited the Cannon Valley Trail yesterday. Warm day, but lots of shade on the trail.


Always one of my favorite rides. Did you eat at Nick's Diner?


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Old 07-24-23, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by gna
The Raleighs visited the Cannon Valley Trail yesterday. Warm day, but lots of shade on the trail.

I'm putting a B67 on mine tomorrow when my new seatpost arrives.
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Old 07-24-23, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
One more note:
The cones of the SA 3-speed hub should be set ever so slightly loose. Sturmey Archer sold a tiny cone adjustment wrench for this purpose. Like the front wheel, the best way to set the cone was with the wheel on the bike- the cone wrench is then used to adjust the left side cone (non drive side). The manual says you want a slight amount of slop (they didn't use that word) which can be felt at the rim by moving it left to right. If you set the cones exactly with no slop, it will cause the gears to bind up. I think this is due to a dimensioning error which never got fixed in the +50 year history of the hub. An example of the wrench is at the link. To adjust the cone, have the left side axle nut slightly loose. Set the cone the way you want it. Then tighten up the axle nut. You'll notice that as you do, the cone will lose some of its looseness. If you use a longer cone wrench, which you can get from Park Tool, you can use it to tighten the cone nut against the frame a bit and save yourself a little time going back and forth between the axle nut and the cone nut to get the setting you want.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29575788926...3ABFBM1NDhka9i
I really appreciate the adjustment tips. I googled a few articles also. My rear wheel is operating and shifting very well now, although I need to take it for a real shakedown ride.

But my friend's is in very bad shape and I've already experienced weird symptoms with the cone adjustment off. Too much one way and the cog seems to disconnect from the gears. Or the pedals turn when pushing the bike, or too much resistance. All over the map. So I will be trying to get that dialed in the next time I work on the bike. I'm very disappointed in an LBS I sent him too for new tires. They didn't have the tires they claimed to, then it came back with the cone poorly adjusted, and even the simple thing of reattaching the shift cable done wrong. Wouldn't even shift until I dialed the barrel adjuster back to the point it went in with.

Do you know the width of that SA cone wrench? Wondering if I need to get one. I see a set of 10 wrenches 8-24mm that is less than the SA.
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Old 07-24-23, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
I really appreciate the adjustment tips. I googled a few articles also. My rear wheel is operating and shifting very well now, although I need to take it for a real shakedown ride.

But my friend's is in very bad shape and I've already experienced weird symptoms with the cone adjustment off. Too much one way and the cog seems to disconnect from the gears. Or the pedals turn when pushing the bike, or too much resistance. All over the map. So I will be trying to get that dialed in the next time I work on the bike. I'm very disappointed in an LBS I sent him too for new tires. They didn't have the tires they claimed to, then it came back with the cone poorly adjusted, and even the simple thing of reattaching the shift cable done wrong. Wouldn't even shift until I dialed the barrel adjuster back to the point it went in with.

Do you know the width of that SA cone wrench? Wondering if I need to get one. I see a set of 10 wrenches 8-24mm that is less than the SA.
IIRC, my AW cones were 16mm on the flats.
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Old 07-24-23, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
I really appreciate the adjustment tips. I googled a few articles also. My rear wheel is operating and shifting very well now, although I need to take it for a real shakedown ride.

But my friend's is in very bad shape and I've already experienced weird symptoms with the cone adjustment off. Too much one way and the cog seems to disconnect from the gears. Or the pedals turn when pushing the bike, or too much resistance. All over the map. So I will be trying to get that dialed in the next time I work on the bike. I'm very disappointed in an LBS I sent him too for new tires. They didn't have the tires they claimed to, then it came back with the cone poorly adjusted, and even the simple thing of reattaching the shift cable done wrong. Wouldn't even shift until I dialed the barrel adjuster back to the point it went in with.

Do you know the width of that SA cone wrench? Wondering if I need to get one. I see a set of 10 wrenches 8-24mm that is less than the SA.
@Unca Sam got it right just above.

If the hub has drag and moves the pedals, the cones can be too tight, it might have corrosion or the hub may simply have no lubrication. When I acquire an SA hub, if I don't take it apart (because it seems to work), I spray a few seconds of WD40 into the oil port while its facing down, to force out grime and then add more with the port up. I do my best to set the shift cable and take the bike for a ride. Usually it sorts itself out in a few blocks. I don't go more than a mile; on return home I rotate the oil port down and let the WD40 drain out onto a rag. Then I put a proper lubricant in it (WD40 is not a proper lubricant!).

I've noticed that post-1972 hubs may have a plastic washer atop the shift spring inside the hub. When you remove the drive side cone from the axle this spring is concentric around the axle. This washer seems to have more drag than the metal washer.

These hubs see a lot of neglect and abuse; but they are rugged and there's a good reason why the 'AW' has come to stand for 'Always Works'.
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Old 07-24-23, 02:43 PM
  #27142  
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Originally Posted by DQRider
Always one of my favorite rides. Did you eat at Nick's Diner?*
Just a picnic on a bench. We were were going to ride for a few hours, but we made it to mile 15 and my wife wanted to keep going. She was not doing well at the end of the day.
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Old 07-24-23, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
Do you know the width of that SA cone wrench? Wondering if I need to get one. I see a set of 10 wrenches 8-24mm that is less than the SA.
The cone is 16mm, but it's a very thin cone wrench. You can use a regular cone wrench, but it may get trapped when you tighten everythng down. You can always thin it on on a grinder--I think RJ the Bike Guy did something like that.
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Old 07-25-23, 06:58 AM
  #27144  
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Originally Posted by gna
The cone is 16mm, but it's a very thin cone wrench. You can use a regular cone wrench, but it may get trapped when you tighten everythng down. You can always thin it on on a grinder--I think RJ the Bike Guy did something like that.
The Sturmey-Archer cone wrench is 1.8mm thick; I measure my Campagnolo and Kingsbridge cone wrenches as 2mm thick, but an ATD cone wrench was 1.8mm thick.
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Old 07-25-23, 09:02 AM
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When a spinning wheel turns the cranks with it, you have to rule out problems in the system - cones too tight, frame alignment issue causing increased drag, damage/corrosion to internal parts, improper replacement parts, improperly set chain tension, etc. The proprietary Sturmey cone wrench is a "must have" if you work on these hubs a lot. You can make one of your own, but I find it's just easier to pay the money and buy a dedicated Sturmey one. It allows you to adjust cone tension on the bike relatively easily.

If you have positively ruled those out, there are a couple of benign reasons a spinning rear wheel may pull the cranks along with it.

This will also happen sometimes with hubs that are running grease in the ball ring race and the outer bearings at the cone. The grease initially will have a little resistance and pull the driver along with the wheel while the wheel spins. This self-corrects as the hub is used.

This can also come about when a new driver is introduced to an old hub (for example, converting a pre-1953 threaded hub to a splined driver). Again, it self-corrects as the driver is used in conjunction with the hub and the races "wear in" just a bit. Regular use does have a polishing effect on the races, though should not gall them.
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Old 07-25-23, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
IIRC, my AW cones were 16mm on the flats.
You're talking about this one. It's 16mm? It looked so much wider. That's why I asked. I've got a very thin, very cheap set of cone wrenches from Performance (their former house brand). That's probably what I used. I've got some Park too, but the Performance are thinner.

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Old 07-25-23, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
@Unca Sam got it right just above.

If the hub has drag and moves the pedals, the cones can be too tight, it might have corrosion or the hub may simply have no lubrication. When I acquire an SA hub, if I don't take it apart (because it seems to work), I spray a few seconds of WD40 into the oil port while its facing down, to force out grime and then add more with the port up. I do my best to set the shift cable and take the bike for a ride. Usually it sorts itself out in a few blocks. I don't go more than a mile; on return home I rotate the oil port down and let the WD40 drain out onto a rag. Then I put a proper lubricant in it (WD40 is not a proper lubricant!).

I've noticed that post-1972 hubs may have a plastic washer atop the shift spring inside the hub. When you remove the drive side cone from the axle this spring is concentric around the axle. This washer seems to have more drag than the metal washer.

These hubs see a lot of neglect and abuse; but they are rugged and there's a good reason why the 'AW' has come to stand for 'Always Works'.
good tips. thx. what is your lube? 30 weight motor oil was mentioned by someone earlier.
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Old 07-25-23, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sunburst
good tips. thx. what is your lube? 30 weight motor oil was mentioned by someone earlier.
That or 20 weight; you don't want the variable viscosity.
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Old 07-27-23, 10:49 AM
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Brown men's Sports $60 in PA

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Old 07-27-23, 03:09 PM
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Location: Dixiana, AL
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Bikes: 1993 Diamond Back Sorrento, 1965 Schwinn Racer 3-speed, 1987 Schwinn High Sierra, 1990 Specialized Sirrus, 2020 Specialized Sirrus 3.0, 2013 Giant Seek 1

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My recent addition to the stable. 1963 Raleigh Roadster.


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