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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 11-04-23, 08:50 PM
  #27501  
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Originally Posted by Cyclespanner

I'm a little weak on old British money, but that was 22 shillings and 6 pence, right? 20 shillings to a pound--wonder why they didn't write it as 1-2-6
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Old 11-04-23, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Is this the bike you wanted to pick up before you left on your trip? Did he hold on to it for you? It looks great. It sure looks like a proper roadster to me, with the full chain case. Have you been able to compare the size of the wheels with some 26"? Have you ridden it? I'd like to get a roadster one day.
That one sold. This one a friend found for me at the recent Copake meet. It has 28 x 1-1/2 tires on it. Overall it is not quite as nice condition-wise as the '63 I got from @SirMike1983 earlier this year. I have only ridden it on a 1 mile test ride in my 'hood. it rode well enough on that short ride. I plan to take it for a longer ride tomorrow in and around downtown Birmingham.
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Old 11-04-23, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zookster
That one sold. This one a friend found for me at the recent Copake meet. It has 28 x 1-1/2 tires on it. Overall it is not quite as nice condition-wise as the '63 I got from @SirMike1983 earlier this year. I have only ridden it on a 1 mile test ride in my 'hood. it rode well enough on that short ride. I plan to take it for a longer ride tomorrow in and around downtown Birmingham.
My impression is that both of those roadsters were "export" models. The recent one you came across is a Singapore export, and the one you got from me (as near as I could tell) came over from somewhere in Europe. The '63 came with deteriorated Austrian made tires (my guess was always an army or student bring back from 1960s Austria or West Germany, but it's speculation on my part).
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Old 11-05-23, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zookster
My latest "For the Love of English 3 Speeds" influenced buying decision. A 1954 Raleigh with rod operated drum brakes, in a small frame size. Is it a Sports, Roadster, Superbe or other model? From the decals it was an export model destined to Singapore.


Sure looks like a roadster. The bolted on seat stays say DL1 to me. Curious that it has both a dynohub and a bottle generator in front.
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Old 11-05-23, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gna
I'm a little weak on old British money, but that was 22 shillings and 6 pence, right? 20 shillings to a pound--wonder why they didn't write it as 1-2-6
That would have been £1 2/6 back then.
2/6' was a Half Crown (Two Shillings and Six Pence)

Coins at that time were ('Change')
Farthing = 1/4 of a penny = 1/4d
Half Penny - 'ha'penny' = 1/2d
Penny =1d
Three Penny =3d
Sixpence = 6d = 'Tanner''
One Shilling = 1/- = 'Bob'
Two Shillings = 2/- = 'Florin'
Half Crown = 2/6
Crown = five Shillings = 5/-

One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)

Notes:-
10 Shillings = 'Ten Bob'
£1 - 20 Shillings ='Quid'
£5 - 100 Shillings = 'Five Quid'
£10 - 'Tenner'
£20
I think there was a £50, but common folk never had one!

Being the generation that was introduced to 'Decimalisation' (£1 = 100p) simplified everything; at least to me!

Think I got that lot correct.

Last edited by Cyclespanner; 11-05-23 at 04:44 AM. Reason: change
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Old 11-05-23, 05:21 AM
  #27506  
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Originally Posted by Cyclespanner
That would have been £1 2/6 back then.
2/6' was a Half Crown (Two Shillings and Six Pence)

Coins at that time were ('Change')
Farthing = 1/4 of a penny = 1/4d
Half Penny - 'ha'penny' = 1/2d
Penny =1d
Three Penny =3d
Sixpence = 6d = 'Tanner''
One Shilling = 1/- = 'Bob'
Two Shillings = 2/- = 'Florin'
Half Crown = 2/6
Crown = five Shillings = 5/-

One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)

Notes:-
10 Shillings = 'Ten Bob'
£1 - 20 Shillings ='Quid'
£5 - 100 Shillings = 'Five Quid'
£10 - 'Tenner'
£20
I think there was a £50, but common folk never had one!

Being the generation that was introduced to 'Decimalisation' (£1 = 100p) simplified everything; at least to me!

Think I got that lot correct.
Entirely correct I think, I do just about remember using old coins.
I think I also remember holding a 10 bob note, according to the web that went out in 1969 and I do remember watching the moon landing.
I 'inherited' my childhood coin collection from my parent's house a couple of years back so I could check.

I think 22'6 is easier to say, and just maybe it sounds a bit like it's cheaper that £1 something.

Apparently 8% of Londoners still use rhyming slang for money

https://romanroadlondon.com/cockney-...g-slang-money/
During the 2012 Olympics, an ATM on Commercial Street gave customers the language option of ‘Cockney rhyming slang’. To withdraw a bit of ’sausage and mash’ (cash), you were first asked to enter your ‘Huckleberry Finn’ (pin). This led to monetary prompts such as ‘Lady Godiva’ (£5) and ‘Horn of Plenty’ (£20).
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Old 11-05-23, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Aardwolf
Entirely correct I think, I do just about remember using old coins.
I think I also remember holding a 10 bob note, according to the web that went out in 1969 and I do remember watching the moon landing.
I 'inherited' my childhood coin collection from my parent's house a couple of years back so I could check.

I think 22'6 is easier to say, and just maybe it sounds a bit like it's cheaper that £1 something.

Apparently 8% of Londoners still use rhyming slang for money

https://romanroadlondon.com/cockney-...g-slang-money/
During the 2012 Olympics, an ATM on Commercial Street gave customers the language option of ‘Cockney rhyming slang’. To withdraw a bit of ’sausage and mash’ (cash), you were first asked to enter your ‘Huckleberry Finn’ (pin). This led to monetary prompts such as ‘Lady Godiva’ (£5) and ‘Horn of Plenty’ (£20).
Of course this is all off topic, but does add context to 3 speed history.

It was interesting to look at your 'small change' before Decimalisation and see all the Monarch's 'heads'
Queen Victoria
King Edward VII
King George V
King George VI
Queen Elizabeth II

Silver coins were 100% Silver until 1919
then 50% silver until 1949

When I left school in 1972, if you could get a job, an expected weekly wage would have been £5!

Last edited by Cyclespanner; 11-05-23 at 05:42 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 11-05-23, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gna
Sure looks like a roadster. The bolted on seat stays say DL1 to me. Curious that it has both a dynohub and a bottle generator in front.
It has drum brakes front and rear, no dynohub. The bottle generator and headlight still work, but having trouble getting it to maintain sufficient pressure on the tire to operate. I have tried adjusting the position on the fork, but unless I manually press the bottle against the tire it won't spin consistently.


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Old 11-05-23, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyclespanner
One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)
My 'guide to Victorian Times' suggested one purchased ordinary things and paid a tradesman in pounds, but purchased quality goods and paid gentlemen in Guineas.

Alex Moulton fittingly, then, priced his cycles in Guineas. From 1965:

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Old 11-05-23, 09:49 AM
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Point of Information
.
There is such a thing as a Guinea coin, minted from 1663 to 1814, containing about 1/4oz of gold.
.
From https://www.lbma.org.uk/wonders-of-g...the-royal-mint
The guinea initially had a nominal value of 20 shillings but its actual value fluctuated, sometimes dramatically, until finally being set in stone by Sir Isaac Newton the Master of the Mint, in 1717, at 21 shillings. This was the equivalent of a fine gold price of £4.4s.11½d per troy ounce, a price that would survive for the next 200 years.
.
And now back to your regular programming
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Old 11-05-23, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
My 'guide to Victorian Times' suggested one purchased ordinary things and paid a tradesman in pounds, but purchased quality goods and paid gentlemen in Guineas.

Alex Moulton fittingly, then, priced his cycles in Guineas. From 1965:

That should be corrected to....'Pay a tradesman in PENNIES!'

Watched a long documentary about Alex Moulton recently.

A man of many accomplishments. And so he should be.
Didn't realise he was so deep seated in the minor landed gentry, with all the privelidges that entails, plus a product of the British Public School 'Old Boy's' network.

Only the Posh and pretentious dealt in Guineas.

By the beginning of 20th Century a Guinea coin had become as archaic as a 'Spanish Doubloon' LOL

Last edited by Cyclespanner; 11-05-23 at 10:00 AM. Reason: POINT OF INFORMATION
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Old 11-05-23, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclespanner
That would have been £1 2/6 back then.
2/6' was a Half Crown (Two Shillings and Six Pence)

Coins at that time were ('Change')
Farthing = 1/4 of a penny = 1/4d
Half Penny - 'ha'penny' = 1/2d
Penny =1d
Three Penny =3d
Sixpence = 6d = 'Tanner''
One Shilling = 1/- = 'Bob'
Two Shillings = 2/- = 'Florin'
Half Crown = 2/6
Crown = five Shillings = 5/-

One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)

Notes:-
10 Shillings = 'Ten Bob'
£1 - 20 Shillings ='Quid'
£5 - 100 Shillings = 'Five Quid'
£10 - 'Tenner'
£20
I think there was a £50, but common folk never had one!

Being the generation that was introduced to 'Decimalisation' (£1 = 100p) simplified everything; at least to me!

Think I got that lot correct.
I might be wrong, but does that mean if I had a bag with 135 tuppence coins in it, I could buy these pedals?

Paul
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Old 11-05-23, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
Late season ride - Raleigh Model 35 light roadster.

Beautiful bike, as usual. Hope you got to break the speed limit just a little.
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Old 11-05-23, 01:49 PM
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Yes, I think these Allez are as hard-to-find as the Webb. I'm aiming at putting some Brampton B8's on the Claud I'm building.
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Old 11-05-23, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre
I might be wrong, but does that mean if I had a bag with 135 tuppence coins in it, I could buy these pedals?

Paul
Not sure, am I missing the point here?
£2.70?
I wouldn't take them out of the box for that!
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Old 11-05-23, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclespanner
Not sure, am I missing the point here?
£2.70?
I wouldn't take them out of the box for that!
I was just having some fun with it. Math isn't my strong suit.
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Old 11-05-23, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zookster
It has drum brakes front and rear, no dynohub. The bottle generator and headlight still work, but having trouble getting it to maintain sufficient pressure on the tire to operate. I have tried adjusting the position on the fork, but unless I manually press the bottle against the tire it won't spin consistently.


I looked closer at the generator side, and it looks to me that if you lowered the generator mount a little lower on the fork, and rotated it toward the back just a bit, you might have better contact for traction. Make sure it's square to the tire as well to minimize drag. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-06-23, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by zookster
It has drum brakes front and rear, no dynohub. The bottle generator and headlight still work, but having trouble getting it to maintain sufficient pressure on the tire to operate. I have tried adjusting the position on the fork, but unless I manually press the bottle against the tire it won't spin consistently.
My bad. I thought it was a dynohub.

3 speeds, drum brakes, chaincase--I see Dutch bikes set up like this even today, what they would call an Opafiets:
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Old 11-06-23, 09:25 AM
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Nice cycle, worth sorting.
Drum brakes are good to have.
Interesting how main frame loops in one piece over BB.
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Old 11-06-23, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyclespanner
These days it is foolish to be riding a cycle without at least 2 functioning brakes. Even better with 3 options.

Even on dedicated cycle routes there's always some idiot capable of stepping unpredictably right into your path!

An old tandem trick was to mount 2 calipers on each wheel, for instance, one before the fork crown (as normal) but another behind the crown.
Only ever found one online photo of that set-up. I'd be interested in that as an experiment. Anyone got an example to share with us?
I have a tandem with two cantilever brakes. Before we rode it, I wondered if they would suffice, and I find that they do. The bike weighs 50 lbs (23 kg), and together, my spouse and I weigh 280 lbs (127 kg). We have occasionally loaded down a trailer and the brakes were still good enough. We ride in a hilly area. I'm sure some tandems need more than two brakes, but we don't, and I'm pretty demanding of my brakes.
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Old 11-06-23, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gna
My bad. I thought it was a dynohub.

3 speeds, drum brakes, chaincase--I see Dutch bikes set up like this even today, what they would call an Opafiets:
I recently got a similar Dutch bike from a Facebook Market sale. It is a pretty traditional set up with cable-operated Sturmey drums. It's something of a combination of a roadster and a city bike. It is one of two off-season projects for me to do.

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Old 11-06-23, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
I recently got a similar Dutch bike from a Facebook Market sale. It is a pretty traditional set up with cable-operated Sturmey drums. It's something of a combination of a roadster and a city bike. It is one of two off-season projects for me to do.
..and a cafe lock.

The one i pictured is for sale nearby. I'm thinking of buying it, just to get the drum brake hubs.
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Old 11-06-23, 02:28 PM
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Frankly, I think that Sparta would be a good candidate to refurbish and ride. It's almost too nice to be a parts bike. Looks pretty clean to me.
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Old 11-06-23, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
Frankly, I think that Sparta would be a good candidate to refurbish and ride. It's almost too nice to be a parts bike. Looks pretty clean to me.
Agreed. But I have enough bikes, aka, my wife would kill me.
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Old 11-07-23, 08:40 AM
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Recently refurbished 1957 Schwinn Traveler three speed. This one is from a brief period in the 1950s when Schwinn used simpler frame graphics. The graphics were ahead of their time in that they would not be out of place on a 1980s or 90s bike. After this style, Schwinn went to a much more ornate style again.





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