Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 12-02-14, 04:32 PM
  #5626  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,796
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked 144 Times in 107 Posts
Oh, one more thing for anyone considering the allegedly bullet proof Schwalbe lead lined tires. They are very tight on Sun CR 18 rims. Installing them resulted in at least one patch job. The CR18 rims are renowned to be hard for tire installation and the Schwalbe Marathon tires, in my experience, are tight in other sizes as well.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 10:54 AM
  #5627  
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
I finally picked one of these up last night and gave it a shot this morning...not having much luck, though. FWIW, the whole ball ring is pretty shallow, so it's hard for the punch to get any real purchase on the notches. Suggestions?

Here's the hub in question, side-by-side with a loose one I've been using as a learning tool, so you can see the difference. The loose hub is dated 1963, and the one in the wheel is 1971.

agmetal is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 11:42 AM
  #5628  
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,601

Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times in 123 Posts
I would consider installing the older hub in the wheel. Of course, I'm always looking for an excuse to build up a wheel. The older hubs seem to have a better reputation.

Otherwise, you are either going to have go obtain a tool like this:
The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour
take a look at the left-hand column and click on 'parts'

As you can see he does not have it in stock, but at least you know what it looks like.

Or- you are going to have to get a very large screwdriver, engage it in that notch, and bludgeon the race loose.
Salubrious is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 11:56 AM
  #5629  
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 18 Posts
The older hub has 40 holes, that's why I didn't use it when I built up the new wheel last month.
agmetal is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 12:10 PM
  #5630  
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,124
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 946 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 375 Posts
Originally Posted by agmetal
I finally picked one of these up last night and gave it a shot this morning...not having much luck, though. FWIW, the whole ball ring is pretty shallow, so it's hard for the punch to get any real purchase on the notches. Suggestions?

Here's the hub in question, side-by-side with a loose one I've been using as a learning tool, so you can see the difference. The loose hub is dated 1963, and the one in the wheel is 1971.

My brass punch method is most effective for the new scalloped notches, although I have used it with the square notches with success. Most people use a flat chisel or screwdriver to drive that type out.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 12:17 PM
  #5631  
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,960

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4850 Post(s)
Liked 3,983 Times in 2,586 Posts
What the Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hub inspired: The Magic Wheels wheelchair wheels. Wheelchair Wheels With Power Assist from Magic Wheels Those wheels have completely different mechanisms but were inspired by the S_A 3 speed.

My dad grew up during the depression. He and his friends as teenagers rode all of New England on 3-speeds, cars being way out of reach. Those bikes saw use and abused as only teenagers can dish out. I heard those stories both from my dad and those lifelong friends. My first geared bike was a 3-speed Dunelt (sp) low end Raleigh. I went on to 10 speeds, sew-ups, racing and fix gears. I had a head injury '77. Winter of '78, I coached an aquantance who had surgetry that cut into her spinal cord to walk on crutches and we stayed close for years.

1993, she had the inevitable surgery to rebuild her back that meant a life on a wheelchair. I visited her 10 days out of the hsopital. Got to watch her struggle to go up a 20' vertical ramp. My first thought? "This is someone in too high a gear!" Then "Why couldn't wheelchairs have an internal geared hub like a S-A? That led to a patent with U of Washington, then the inventor of the SonicCare toothbrush seeing that patent and pursuing it. A decade+ later, the Magic Wheel was debuted.

I've tooled around on them. They are a lot of fun. While I was working with the university I got my hands on a wheelchair and rollled around my moderately hilly neighborhood so I knew first hand how hard wheelchairs are. The 2:1 low gear is a real benefit!

If you know of anyone in for a lifetime on a wheelchair, suggest these as a spare set if nothing else, so when injury or sickness happens, thay can pull these wheels out and continue life. Just like running your fix gear on a bigger cog until you get stronger. (These wheels are interchangeable with the existing wheels and no wider so there will not be door issues. Also quick-release so in and out of cars is simple. And as light as you can make a geared hub. They were conceived by an ex-bike racer after all.)

And, yes I do have a financial interest here. Sales might get me a dollar or two before I die. My stake is $12,000 out of my pocket and I own a few shares of Magic wheels. That pales beside my passion to see these in use. The struggel I witnessed 20 years ago is burned into my brain.

Ben
79pmooney is online now  
Old 12-05-14, 12:46 PM
  #5632  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,190
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3822 Post(s)
Liked 6,770 Times in 2,633 Posts
^ That's awesome work, Ben.
nlerner is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 01:40 PM
  #5633  
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
My brass punch method is most effective for the new scalloped notches, although I have used it with the square notches with success. Most people use a flat chisel or screwdriver to drive that type out.
Damn, wish I'd realized this before I spent the money on a punch. For some reason I had it in my head that a chisel was somehow a bad idea, and never used one of the ones I had around until reading this. It worked quickly and effectively! After opening up both hubs and comparing side by side, the only notable difference I could see was some wear on the low gear pawls of the hub I've been riding, more than was the case with the loose hub. I swapped pawls between the hubs, and I'll give it a shot later to see if that helps. One thing I noticed is that the scraping sound I've heard in second gear doesn't always start until I'm a couple miles into a ride...but if it's not those pawls, I really don't know what could be causing it.
agmetal is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 02:18 PM
  #5634  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,839

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3615 Post(s)
Liked 3,444 Times in 1,956 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
My brass punch method is most effective for the new scalloped notches
There is a proper tool available for those:



Buy Sturmey Archer Sturmey Archer HTR 145 Classic Ball Ring Spanner from SJS Cycles, fast delivery for the UK - £24.99
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 02:30 PM
  #5635  
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,124
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 946 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 375 Posts
Originally Posted by agmetal
Damn, wish I'd realized this before I spent the money on a punch. For some reason I had it in my head that a chisel was somehow a bad idea, and never used one of the ones I had around until reading this. It worked quickly and effectively! After opening up both hubs and comparing side by side, the only notable difference I could see was some wear on the low gear pawls of the hub I've been riding, more than was the case with the loose hub. I swapped pawls between the hubs, and I'll give it a shot later to see if that helps. One thing I noticed is that the scraping sound I've heard in second gear doesn't always start until I'm a couple miles into a ride...but if it's not those pawls, I really don't know what could be causing it.
I apologize if I led you down the wrong track there, but I'm sure you'll find other uses for your new brass punch. They are handy to have around.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 04:47 PM
  #5636  
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Interesting observation with my scraping sound...when coasting, it's affected by the position of the cranks (and therefore phase of the two pairs of pawls). It does this in all gears while coasting, but only second while pedaling. This is after swapping the slightly worn-looking pawls from the hub in use, out for the better-looking ones from the loose hub.
agmetal is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 04:59 PM
  #5637  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,551

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 513 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7371 Post(s)
Liked 2,522 Times in 1,465 Posts
Is it possible that you have grit that you didn't see?

Ben, thanks for the story. It's heart warming.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 05:23 PM
  #5638  
Senior Member
 
markk900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,664
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 484 Post(s)
Liked 648 Times in 346 Posts
Try taking the dust cap off from under the sprocket....on one of my hubs I found it made a large amount of mildly scraping noises....I actually forgot to put it back on one time and the noise went away. Now I have the dilemma of put it back and have it be noisy, or leave it off.....
markk900 is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 09:55 PM
  #5639  
gna
Count Orlok Member
 
gna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,819

Bikes: Raleigh Sports, Raleigh Twenty, Raleigh Wyoming, Raleigh DL1, Schwinn Winter Bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 97 Posts
Originally Posted by Salubrious
I would consider installing the older hub in the wheel. Of course, I'm always looking for an excuse to build up a wheel. The older hubs seem to have a better reputation.

Otherwise, you are either going to have go obtain a tool like this:
The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour
take a look at the left-hand column and click on 'parts'

As you can see he does not have it in stock, but at least you know what it looks like.

Or- you are going to have to get a very large screwdriver, engage it in that notch, and bludgeon the race loose.
Send Jon an email--he may have some in stock.

I use an old flat-blade screwdriver. Seems to stay in the notch (mostly).
gna is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 09:56 PM
  #5640  
gna
Count Orlok Member
 
gna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,819

Bikes: Raleigh Sports, Raleigh Twenty, Raleigh Wyoming, Raleigh DL1, Schwinn Winter Bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 97 Posts
Originally Posted by markk900
Try taking the dust cap off from under the sprocket....on one of my hubs I found it made a large amount of mildly scraping noises....I actually forgot to put it back on one time and the noise went away. Now I have the dilemma of put it back and have it be noisy, or leave it off.....
Just wait for oil to leak out and lubricate it.
gna is offline  
Old 12-05-14, 10:16 PM
  #5641  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,839

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3615 Post(s)
Liked 3,444 Times in 1,956 Posts
Originally Posted by Salubrious
Otherwise, you are either going to have go obtain a tool like this:
The Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour
take a look at the left-hand column and click on 'parts'

As you can see he does not have it in stock, but at least you know what it looks like.
I have this tool, and to be honest, in my experience it isn't any more effective than using a hammer and punch.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 12-06-14, 12:23 AM
  #5642  
Senior Member
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,697
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 957 Post(s)
Liked 568 Times in 314 Posts
Originally Posted by markk900
Try taking the dust cap off from under the sprocket....on one of my hubs I found it made a large amount of mildly scraping noises....I actually forgot to put it back on one time and the noise went away. Now I have the dilemma of put it back and have it be noisy, or leave it off.....
I had a noisy scraping hub at some parts of the rotation and couldn't tighten the cones without it making noise until I removed the dust cap and cleaned it. There was quite a bit of buildup under there. Put it back on and it has been nice and quiet ever since with properly adjusted cones.
Narhay is offline  
Old 12-06-14, 06:53 AM
  #5643  
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,124
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 946 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 375 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
I have this tool, and to be honest, in my experience it isn't any more effective than using a hammer and punch.
I have one too, and I agree with you assessment. One of my customers gave it to me. I'm glad I didn't shell out for it.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 12-06-14, 09:53 AM
  #5644  
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Narhay
I had a noisy scraping hub at some parts of the rotation and couldn't tighten the cones without it making noise until I removed the dust cap and cleaned it. There was quite a bit of buildup under there. Put it back on and it has been nice and quiet ever since with properly adjusted cones.
I'll check this out the next time I have an opportunity to take a good look at it. I don't feel like this would explain the fact that the scraping-while-pedaling part only comes up in the direct drive gear, though. I've been trying to think through what parts only move when pedaling, and I'm having some difficulty visualizing it.
agmetal is offline  
Old 12-06-14, 10:10 PM
  #5645  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: hopewell lct NY
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1969 schwinn sting ray 3 speed stick ...1974 raleigh sports

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
picked up a 74 sports ..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image_zps3f2a3e4f.jpg (96.5 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg
image_zpsadbd843e.jpg (96.7 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg
image_zpsab7f0a5b.jpg (97.2 KB, 130 views)
File Type: jpg
image_zpse6a1ad9c.jpg (92.8 KB, 125 views)
michaelz28 is offline  
Old 12-07-14, 09:32 AM
  #5646  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Northern Neck of Virginia
Posts: 316

Bikes: Some Raleighs,some Schwinns and an Azor

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by agmetal
I'll check this out the next time I have an opportunity to take a good look at it. I don't feel like this would explain the fact that the scraping-while-pedaling part only comes up in the direct drive gear, though. I've been trying to think through what parts only move when pedaling, and I'm having some difficulty visualizing it.
My '69 DL1 makes a scraping noise when coasting. There are scuff marks inside the hub shell where it looks like the gear ring is dragging very lightly on one spot.
JBC353 is offline  
Old 12-07-14, 11:29 PM
  #5647  
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,541

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 18 Posts
I popped it open again tonight...didn't see any real wear spots inside the hub shell, but I gave it a bit more thorough of a cleaning than I've done with this hub so far. Interesting note: the '71 hub had no dustcover behind the cog, which I hadn't noticed before...the '63 did. I ended up moving the dustcover to the '71, so we'll see if that does anything. I also noticed a fair amount of dirt and other particulate on various internal surfaces, including the bearings and planet cage, so I gave those a good wipe down as well. Reassembled and re-lubed it all, but haven't had a chance to test ride yet. Hopefully the ride to work in the morning goes well!

Also noticed a little bit of wear on the clutch...nothing really bad, and I haven't had too many clutch related problems, but I swapped it for the '63 hub's clutch since that looked to be in slightly better shape. How much wear is ok before it needs to be replaced?
agmetal is offline  
Old 12-08-14, 01:24 AM
  #5648  
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes, they are!
canrock is offline  
Old 12-08-14, 06:17 AM
  #5649  
Senior Member
 
markk900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,664
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 484 Post(s)
Liked 648 Times in 346 Posts
You guys made me feel guilty about leaving off the dust cover so I did some cleaning and adjusting last night; cover back on, hub clean, no unusual noises so I am happy. Decided to true the back wheel as well since it had a small warp to it.

As to the clutch, I am not an expert but it simply slides to engage and disengage the pawls so I doubt there is much there to wear out or worry about.
markk900 is offline  
Old 12-08-14, 06:50 AM
  #5650  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,551

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 513 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7371 Post(s)
Liked 2,522 Times in 1,465 Posts
@markk900, no, the clutch is a wear item. It can require replacement from wear, but I'm not an expert on when. I'd say when it causes a problem.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.