For the love of English 3 speeds...
02-12-15, 08:35 AM
#6301
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Through it I found out about the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, which was about as much fun as I have ever had on a bike. My first recent foray into British 3-speeds was for that tour. Its been nice to rediscover the charm of the lowly 3-speed hub after all these years since high school; back then it was always on a Schwinn instead of a proper British machine. Now I have more 3-speeds than any other kind of bike.A similar question came up in my Black Widow thread because the very old SA AW hubs have a threaded on cog rather than the three tab jobbers. John D Thompson, in that thread, said:
What you need to do to remove the cog is disassemble the hub to the point where you can remove the driver with the cog attached:
Then clamp a metal bar in a bench vise and set the slot in the driver over the bar to hold it while you use a chain whip to remove the cog. I needed a 2' cheater pipe on the chain whip to get the cog off the driver pictured above, so be prepared for a fight. Once removed, any standard track cog will fit on the driver if you want to change the gearing. Otherwise, you can replace the threaded driver with a modern splined driver and use standard 3-spline cogs. This has the advantage of not requiring disassembly to change the cog.
Then clamp a metal bar in a bench vise and set the slot in the driver over the bar to hold it while you use a chain whip to remove the cog. I needed a 2' cheater pipe on the chain whip to get the cog off the driver pictured above, so be prepared for a fight. Once removed, any standard track cog will fit on the driver if you want to change the gearing. Otherwise, you can replace the threaded driver with a modern splined driver and use standard 3-spline cogs. This has the advantage of not requiring disassembly to change the cog.
02-12-15, 11:56 AM
#6302
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Thread Starter
Here is a Dutch built Magneet that got a 4 speed upgrade... from what I know it may have been accidental. When the bike was taken in for service in the late 40's (It is a 1946 model) it went in as a three speed and came back as a four speed with the alloy hub shell.
With the 3-4 speed shifter the mechanic may have got his wheels mixed up and the hub date is later than the bike.
.JPG)
The fellow who is selling this bike bought it for his girlfriend in 1946 so I don't question the date... they married and emigrated to Canada and brought the bike with them. She passed away a few years ago and as no-one rides this bicycle anymore he wants to find it a new home.
I think it probably has too many memories attached to it for him to keep.
With the 3-4 speed shifter the mechanic may have got his wheels mixed up and the hub date is later than the bike.
The fellow who is selling this bike bought it for his girlfriend in 1946 so I don't question the date... they married and emigrated to Canada and brought the bike with them. She passed away a few years ago and as no-one rides this bicycle anymore he wants to find it a new home.
I think it probably has too many memories attached to it for him to keep.
02-12-15, 12:04 PM
#6303
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^^ +1
I think that is how it was when I got my 1953 Humber his'n'hers Sports.
So this morning I took apart a potential donor SA hub and installed the carrier in the Brampton hub. It seemed to go OK but I could not install the bearing cone. The Brampton employed a ring on the end of the spring which had to go (the SA lacks this ring- just has the spring engage the cone directly). Then the cone went on OK but did not turn well against the SA carrier. So it took it off and installed the SA cone instead. That sorted things out! The hub, despite years of no lubrication and storage, turns really freely with a very slight play detectable only at the rim of the wheel. I suspect it will be better once oil has circulated. I did grease the bearings with some lithium grease while I was in there...
So just for the record- if you want to retro-fit a Brampton hub with a carrier such that you can change cogs by removal of the snap ring, its pretty easy if you have a Sturmey Archer hub as a donor. The parts are that close, even though Brampton made all the parts themselves.
Just so I would not loose the old Brampton parts I installed them on the donor SA hub and they worked fine. So this swap can go in either direction.
I think that is how it was when I got my 1953 Humber his'n'hers Sports.
So this morning I took apart a potential donor SA hub and installed the carrier in the Brampton hub. It seemed to go OK but I could not install the bearing cone. The Brampton employed a ring on the end of the spring which had to go (the SA lacks this ring- just has the spring engage the cone directly). Then the cone went on OK but did not turn well against the SA carrier. So it took it off and installed the SA cone instead. That sorted things out! The hub, despite years of no lubrication and storage, turns really freely with a very slight play detectable only at the rim of the wheel. I suspect it will be better once oil has circulated. I did grease the bearings with some lithium grease while I was in there...
So just for the record- if you want to retro-fit a Brampton hub with a carrier such that you can change cogs by removal of the snap ring, its pretty easy if you have a Sturmey Archer hub as a donor. The parts are that close, even though Brampton made all the parts themselves.
Just so I would not loose the old Brampton parts I installed them on the donor SA hub and they worked fine. So this swap can go in either direction.
02-12-15, 02:08 PM
#6304
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We think exactly alike - if anyone ever inherits my collection of parts they will have a surprise if they try to trace the provenance of the parts by year!
02-12-15, 03:12 PM
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Looking through the many pics, made me curious of the saddle brands on English bikes, specifically Raleigh. Perhaps an expert on deciphering date codes of the DL-1 can better explain but for a few years, there was an issue of quality by Brooks and Raleigh sourced elsewhere. Anyhow, if you install a new Brooks on your bike, you could say it was made with machines from the late 40's and early 50's.
Last edited by crank_addict; 02-12-15 at 03:16 PM.
02-12-15, 03:27 PM
#6306
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What I'm saying is that it IS the same kickstand...
[for the paltry sum of $4.95]
Check it out!
02-12-15, 06:56 PM
#6307
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Those were cool videos.
02-12-15, 07:06 PM
#6308
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i didn't check it out as i had already made the purchase . where were you 2 weeks ago ..i would have gladly paid the 5 bucks for the thor . i googled sports stands and that's what came up . the stand still isn't here and its last scanned by the usps on the third ( the day it was shipped ) . if it doesn't show ill be getting the thor . i see on the sellers store that he sells the rubber tips for 10 dollars , thor for 2 dollars . i think he shops there too...i messaged him and he was like " I've sold 7000 items and not one has ever been lost . never say never . thanks for the link . a little late , but that's not your fault .
02-12-15, 07:23 PM
#6309
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Speaking of wifely saddles; my wife's "Promenade bike" is a very nice '74 Sports in the metallic blue of that year. When I bought it from a bicycle enthusiast outside Asheville a few years back it had the original, well-maintained B72 on it but I took that off and put it on an LTD3 I have and put a new tan B66S on the "Bluebird" for her. It's a stunning combination IMO.
02-12-15, 07:30 PM
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@desconhecido - I'm like your wife, in that I never rode a 3 speed, and really like the clean look and that if I forgot to down shift at a stop sign, I can shift on the spot. I'm already trying to figure out to make other bikes into a vintage SA 3-speed.
02-12-15, 08:24 PM
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Those tires are Schwalbe Marathon Plus. They're supposed to be about the closest thing to bullet proof there is though some people say they feel like they're lead-lined. Feel fine to me, though, and it's a Sports, not an English racer.
I was looking at something yesterday and a reference to Specialized TriSport tires came up. They offer that tire in 26 1 3/8 for $15 each. I've never seen one and don't know if they have reflective sidewall. The Schwalbes do.
I was looking at something yesterday and a reference to Specialized TriSport tires came up. They offer that tire in 26 1 3/8 for $15 each. I've never seen one and don't know if they have reflective sidewall. The Schwalbes do.
Oh, and the blue Raleigh-built Western Auto - 1964 AW Hub - set me back a cool $5. I was going to part it out but have decided to make a kind of quasi path racer out of it....
02-12-15, 08:29 PM
#6312
Senior Member
I experienced the dreaded "no gear engagement" between Normal & High today. Scared me and I bit my tongue. I was in High, just starting up a tiny rise on the path. Mid way up, I stopped pedaling, shifted to"N" then began pedaling .....and nothing was there. I wasn't in gear. Fortunately I've read that this can happen. Also fortunate that I was going walking speed, so I didn't crash.
Im familiar with how to set the indicator: Put shifter into "N", adjust so that shoulder of indicator pin is even or just 1 mm past end of axle. In "H" cable should be lax. In "L" cable should be tight, BUT you should be able to pull a tiny bit of chain a bit further. I think I had more than a "tiny bit" of chain that I could pull out. That would imply my cable was a tiny bit loose. I have tightened it a bit. Rode around - mostly flat, without issues.
I was downshifting under load but I did stop pedaling for a second. Maybe I didn't stop pedaling long enough for the clutch to get from high to Normal (by the way a lot of people call the "N" on the shifter "neutral", but SA & Raleigh call it "Normal"). I've read the horrors of using the SA 3 speed hubs under load. Read you should never stand up & pedal. Here's a link to a 2000 user group conversation with Jobst Brandt:
Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs (Jobst Brandt)
If I'm to believe all that I'll pretty much be limited to riding at walking speed on flat ground. The implication is that the clutch wears the pinion pins, allowing the dreaded "no gear" between High & Normal.
So, what does your collective wisdom say? What about the area between High & Normal? Why's it there? How do you avoid it? Has that ever happened to you, and if so, under what circumstances?
Im familiar with how to set the indicator: Put shifter into "N", adjust so that shoulder of indicator pin is even or just 1 mm past end of axle. In "H" cable should be lax. In "L" cable should be tight, BUT you should be able to pull a tiny bit of chain a bit further. I think I had more than a "tiny bit" of chain that I could pull out. That would imply my cable was a tiny bit loose. I have tightened it a bit. Rode around - mostly flat, without issues.
I was downshifting under load but I did stop pedaling for a second. Maybe I didn't stop pedaling long enough for the clutch to get from high to Normal (by the way a lot of people call the "N" on the shifter "neutral", but SA & Raleigh call it "Normal"). I've read the horrors of using the SA 3 speed hubs under load. Read you should never stand up & pedal. Here's a link to a 2000 user group conversation with Jobst Brandt:
Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs (Jobst Brandt)
If I'm to believe all that I'll pretty much be limited to riding at walking speed on flat ground. The implication is that the clutch wears the pinion pins, allowing the dreaded "no gear" between High & Normal.
So, what does your collective wisdom say? What about the area between High & Normal? Why's it there? How do you avoid it? Has that ever happened to you, and if so, under what circumstances?
02-12-15, 09:10 PM
#6313
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I experienced the dreaded "no gear engagement" between Normal & High today. Scared me and I bit my tongue. I was in High, just starting up a tiny rise on the path. Mid way up, I stopped pedaling, shifted to"N" then began pedaling .....and nothing was there. I wasn't in gear. Fortunately I've read that this can happen. Also fortunate that I was going walking speed, so I didn't crash.
Im familiar with how to set the indicator: Put shifter into "N", adjust so that shoulder of indicator pin is even or just 1 mm past end of axle. In "H" cable should be lax. In "L" cable should be tight, BUT you should be able to pull a tiny bit of chain a bit further. I think I had more than a "tiny bit" of chain that I could pull out. That would imply my cable was a tiny bit loose. I have tightened it a bit. Rode around - mostly flat, without issues.
I was downshifting under load but I did stop pedaling for a second. Maybe I didn't stop pedaling long enough for the clutch to get from high to Normal (by the way a lot of people call the "N" on the shifter "neutral", but SA & Raleigh call it "Normal"). I've read the horrors of using the SA 3 speed hubs under load. Read you should never stand up & pedal. Here's a link to a 2000 user group conversation with Jobst Brandt:
Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs (Jobst Brandt)
If I'm to believe all that I'll pretty much be limited to riding at walking speed on flat ground. The implication is that the clutch wears the pinion pins, allowing the dreaded "no gear" between High & Normal.
So, what does your collective wisdom say? What about the area between High & Normal? Why's it there? How do you avoid it? Has that ever happened to you, and if so, under what circumstances?
Im familiar with how to set the indicator: Put shifter into "N", adjust so that shoulder of indicator pin is even or just 1 mm past end of axle. In "H" cable should be lax. In "L" cable should be tight, BUT you should be able to pull a tiny bit of chain a bit further. I think I had more than a "tiny bit" of chain that I could pull out. That would imply my cable was a tiny bit loose. I have tightened it a bit. Rode around - mostly flat, without issues.
I was downshifting under load but I did stop pedaling for a second. Maybe I didn't stop pedaling long enough for the clutch to get from high to Normal (by the way a lot of people call the "N" on the shifter "neutral", but SA & Raleigh call it "Normal"). I've read the horrors of using the SA 3 speed hubs under load. Read you should never stand up & pedal. Here's a link to a 2000 user group conversation with Jobst Brandt:
Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs (Jobst Brandt)
If I'm to believe all that I'll pretty much be limited to riding at walking speed on flat ground. The implication is that the clutch wears the pinion pins, allowing the dreaded "no gear" between High & Normal.
So, what does your collective wisdom say? What about the area between High & Normal? Why's it there? How do you avoid it? Has that ever happened to you, and if so, under what circumstances?
Last edited by michaelz28; 02-12-15 at 09:17 PM.
02-12-15, 10:17 PM
#6314
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I experienced the dreaded "no gear engagement" between Normal & High today. Scared me and I bit my tongue. I was in High, just starting up a tiny rise on the path. Mid way up, I stopped pedaling, shifted to"N" then began pedaling .....and nothing was there. I wasn't in gear. Fortunately I've read that this can happen. Also fortunate that I was going walking speed, so I didn't crash.
[snip]
If I'm to believe all that I'll pretty much be limited to riding at walking speed on flat ground. The implication is that the clutch wears the pinion pins, allowing the dreaded "no gear" between High & Normal.
So, what does your collective wisdom say? What about the area between High & Normal? Why's it there? How do you avoid it? Has that ever happened to you, and if so, under what circumstances?
[snip]
If I'm to believe all that I'll pretty much be limited to riding at walking speed on flat ground. The implication is that the clutch wears the pinion pins, allowing the dreaded "no gear" between High & Normal.
So, what does your collective wisdom say? What about the area between High & Normal? Why's it there? How do you avoid it? Has that ever happened to you, and if so, under what circumstances?
I set up a bike for a friend of mine and she ran into this problem. It took me a while to sort out that it was caused by the shifter, which was slightly bent and binding a little in 3rd gear so the cable was not running as loose as it should. So the hub would slip out of gear. Fixed easily enough by replacing the shifter.
02-12-15, 10:20 PM
#6315
Senior Member
@michaelz28- I get what you mean. I normally would never shift going up a hill, or if I did, very carefully. However this wasn't really a "hill". It was maybe a 10 foot section of a multiuser path leading from my street into the park. It was a rise, a very mild incline. I thought that with a SA 3 speed hub I could stop pedaling, shift, then keep going.
So, if I were in a too high gear going up a hill, and wanted to shift down, could I stop, put my feet on the ground, shift the lever then start up again? Like you could at a stop sign?
I've read not to "trust" the SA 3-speed 100%. Accd. to the Jobst Brandt user group I linked to above, he says that SA always blamed the rider, never fixing the problem. I'm not trying to start a debate, but just want a realistic, clear understanding to what I can and cannot do with this hub.
Before I bought the bike someone on here was teasing that I'll be like Miss Marple plootering around the village and having high tea. I'm no dawdling rider, but I'm not one who's hammering out 40 mile training rides up in the hills. So, do I need to save this bike for genteel riding? I was under the impression that the Brits used these utility bikes as real, functional transportation. I'm sure they had a few hills.
@Salubrious - my original indicator pin had a real "shoulder" - the chain riveted onto a flat part, then that flat part widened to become the indicator pin and the transition was more evident than my current pin. I know for certain that in High the cable was very slack, I think slightly too slack, so I tightened a little. I'll pay attention. Also how much do I have to watch for initial cable stretch?
So, if I were in a too high gear going up a hill, and wanted to shift down, could I stop, put my feet on the ground, shift the lever then start up again? Like you could at a stop sign?
I've read not to "trust" the SA 3-speed 100%. Accd. to the Jobst Brandt user group I linked to above, he says that SA always blamed the rider, never fixing the problem. I'm not trying to start a debate, but just want a realistic, clear understanding to what I can and cannot do with this hub.
Before I bought the bike someone on here was teasing that I'll be like Miss Marple plootering around the village and having high tea. I'm no dawdling rider, but I'm not one who's hammering out 40 mile training rides up in the hills. So, do I need to save this bike for genteel riding? I was under the impression that the Brits used these utility bikes as real, functional transportation. I'm sure they had a few hills.
@Salubrious - my original indicator pin had a real "shoulder" - the chain riveted onto a flat part, then that flat part widened to become the indicator pin and the transition was more evident than my current pin. I know for certain that in High the cable was very slack, I think slightly too slack, so I tightened a little. I'll pay attention. Also how much do I have to watch for initial cable stretch?
Last edited by Velocivixen; 02-12-15 at 10:25 PM.
02-12-15, 10:29 PM
#6316
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^^ hardly at all.
I shift going up hill all the time and never even think about it. Its not second or first you worry about- its third- that is the gear that you don't stand up for.
In the lower gears the hub is held in gear pretty tightly when you are pedaling- the force of pedaling helps. In third, its held in gear solely by spring action and that is why it can drop out if you push it too hard. Just don't stand up and you will never have a problem in third. I have a 22 on the hub and can make 25 mph pretty easily.
I shift going up hill all the time and never even think about it. Its not second or first you worry about- its third- that is the gear that you don't stand up for.
In the lower gears the hub is held in gear pretty tightly when you are pedaling- the force of pedaling helps. In third, its held in gear solely by spring action and that is why it can drop out if you push it too hard. Just don't stand up and you will never have a problem in third. I have a 22 on the hub and can make 25 mph pretty easily.
02-12-15, 10:43 PM
#6317
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The bike will lead you to more genteel riding anyway, with its wide gearing and heavy weight.
The surprise neutral gear is a little dangerous, but I don't believe it causes somersaults. I've found it accidentally, and I haven't gotten hurt. Some time in the 70's or so, Columbia had SA make special versions of the SA that prevented neutral. I don't know how they did that. And SA's new three-speed hubs don't have it.
The way I adjust a 3-speed hub is I shift into each gear and make sure the cranks engage. Then I fish carefully for neutral between 2nd and 3rd and make sure the crank does not engage.
If you find neutral when your shifter is in 3rd, your cable is too tight. If you find it in 2nd, it's too loose.
Jobst Brandt was a character and sometimes an alarmist. Last I heard, he is still alive but suffered a bad brain injury and doesn't write any more. He may not ride any more, too. I miss him.
The surprise neutral gear is a little dangerous, but I don't believe it causes somersaults. I've found it accidentally, and I haven't gotten hurt. Some time in the 70's or so, Columbia had SA make special versions of the SA that prevented neutral. I don't know how they did that. And SA's new three-speed hubs don't have it.
The way I adjust a 3-speed hub is I shift into each gear and make sure the cranks engage. Then I fish carefully for neutral between 2nd and 3rd and make sure the crank does not engage.
If you find neutral when your shifter is in 3rd, your cable is too tight. If you find it in 2nd, it's too loose.
Jobst Brandt was a character and sometimes an alarmist. Last I heard, he is still alive but suffered a bad brain injury and doesn't write any more. He may not ride any more, too. I miss him.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
02-12-15, 11:02 PM
#6318
Senior Member
The bike will lead you to more genteel riding anyway, with its wide gearing and heavy weight.
The surprise neutral gear is a little dangerous, but I don't believe it causes somersaults. I've found it accidentally, and I haven't gotten hurt. Some time in the 70's or so, Columbia had SA make special versions of the SA that prevented neutral. I don't know how they did that. And SA's new three-speed hubs don't have it.
The way I adjust a 3-speed hub is I shift into each gear and make sure the cranks engage. Then I fish carefully for neutral between 2nd and 3rd and make sure the crank does not engage.
If you find neutral when your shifter is in 3rd, your cable is too tight. If you find it in 2nd, it's too loose.
Jobst Brandt was a character and sometimes an alarmist. Last I heard, he is still alive but suffered a bad brain injury and doesn't write any more. He may not ride any more, too. I miss him.
The surprise neutral gear is a little dangerous, but I don't believe it causes somersaults. I've found it accidentally, and I haven't gotten hurt. Some time in the 70's or so, Columbia had SA make special versions of the SA that prevented neutral. I don't know how they did that. And SA's new three-speed hubs don't have it.
The way I adjust a 3-speed hub is I shift into each gear and make sure the cranks engage. Then I fish carefully for neutral between 2nd and 3rd and make sure the crank does not engage.
If you find neutral when your shifter is in 3rd, your cable is too tight. If you find it in 2nd, it's too loose.
Jobst Brandt was a character and sometimes an alarmist. Last I heard, he is still alive but suffered a bad brain injury and doesn't write any more. He may not ride any more, too. I miss him.
Anyway I know the cable was too loose.It was very loose in High and in Low, when I tried to pull more chain out, I could pull maybe 3/4 of a link. I believe you should be able to pull 1/3 link more when in low gear (in other words you don't want extreme tension while in low).
But details please about the fishing statement.
02-12-15, 11:09 PM
#6319
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Its never occurred to me to look for neutral and there's not much use for it in any regard. I just make sure that the shift works right and the cable is near slack in 3rd. Make sure your fulcrum clip and pulley clip can't move on the frame. That'll have you pulling your hair out.
02-12-15, 11:10 PM
#6320
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Yeah, I mean fish by carefully squeezing the lever out of third and towards second. While doing this motion very slowly, turn the crank back and forth in search of neutral. I never look at the indicator chain when I adjust a 3-speed. In fact, I can do it with my eyes closed. I do it by feel and sound. I should make a video, huh?
This thread has gotten busy lately, and my three-speeds are in Florida. I feel like buying or building one to have here.
This thread has gotten busy lately, and my three-speeds are in Florida. I feel like buying or building one to have here.
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New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
02-12-15, 11:33 PM
#6321
Senior Member
He has strong opinions on SA three speed AW hubs. I've never seen or heard of anyone else with the same complaints that he had. He is a big guy and was a powerful rider -- perhaps his problems were not ones us mere mortals encounter.
02-13-15, 01:56 AM
#6322
Senior Member
@noglider - Tom, you know you want to do it - refurbish a three -speed. You have access to tools galore, and with your know,edge you could have some "old girl" purring along in no time! NYC would love you for it!
Thanks for the explanation. I was able to find neutral by hand pulling on the chain. I'll try your way. If I start in 3rd, gently rotate wheels and slowly move shifters toward second and find "neutral" before all the way into second, then what? Does that mean the cable is too loose?
I tried various loose/tight cable tensions and was able to find "neutral" via shifter every time. Sometimes it occurred closer to 3rd & sometimes closer to 2nd depending on how tight or loose the cable was. I guess I'll set it the way SA said to do it, then go from there. I won't be shifting up hill any more.
Thanks for the explanation. I was able to find neutral by hand pulling on the chain. I'll try your way. If I start in 3rd, gently rotate wheels and slowly move shifters toward second and find "neutral" before all the way into second, then what? Does that mean the cable is too loose?
I tried various loose/tight cable tensions and was able to find "neutral" via shifter every time. Sometimes it occurred closer to 3rd & sometimes closer to 2nd depending on how tight or loose the cable was. I guess I'll set it the way SA said to do it, then go from there. I won't be shifting up hill any more.
Last edited by Velocivixen; 02-13-15 at 02:13 AM.
02-13-15, 03:07 AM
#6323
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Thread Starter
A properly set up AW, that isn't worn, isn't likely to slip and when you are climbing hills the odds are you will have the bike in first gear where the likelihood of slippage is nil... slippage usually happens when you are shifting between normal (not neutral) and third gear when you are between gears.
I have experienced a little slipping when I was time trialling on a lightweight three speed road bike, had topped 50 kmh, and was still hammering... this was about all the hub could take but I was a much stronger rider than I am now and some frame flex was probably a contributing factor.
The new SA hubs have been redesigned so there is no dead spot between N and 3rd gear which is good for folks who might not have their transmission dialled in.
A little cable slack in third and the ability to pull just a little cable in first as well as the correct position of the indicator chain in N is where things need to be... if the wrong indicator spindle has been installed the indicator spindle will not show properly so then you need to set the hub with cable tension at 1 and 3.
Pawls do wear as does the clutch and this can contribute to misbehaviour even when everything else is set up perfectly.
It sounds harder than it is... do it a few hundred or a few thousand times and you can almost do it with your eyes closed and if you know what to listen for that can also tell you what is going on.
I have experienced a little slipping when I was time trialling on a lightweight three speed road bike, had topped 50 kmh, and was still hammering... this was about all the hub could take but I was a much stronger rider than I am now and some frame flex was probably a contributing factor.
The new SA hubs have been redesigned so there is no dead spot between N and 3rd gear which is good for folks who might not have their transmission dialled in.
A little cable slack in third and the ability to pull just a little cable in first as well as the correct position of the indicator chain in N is where things need to be... if the wrong indicator spindle has been installed the indicator spindle will not show properly so then you need to set the hub with cable tension at 1 and 3.
Pawls do wear as does the clutch and this can contribute to misbehaviour even when everything else is set up perfectly.
It sounds harder than it is... do it a few hundred or a few thousand times and you can almost do it with your eyes closed and if you know what to listen for that can also tell you what is going on.
02-13-15, 03:12 AM
#6324
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
Thread Starter
Seems like the only time I have to tear down and overhaul a 3 speed hub is when I teach classes on the subject... in the real world they rarely cause any issues.
I think the last time I had to crack open a defective hub was when adventurepdx's old 50's AW hub sheared the pin that holds the main gear and we ended up swapping the guts from another hub instead of rebuilding the old one.
Improperly set drive side bearings can also cause hair pulling grief but once adjusted smiles usually ensue.
I think the last time I had to crack open a defective hub was when adventurepdx's old 50's AW hub sheared the pin that holds the main gear and we ended up swapping the guts from another hub instead of rebuilding the old one.
Improperly set drive side bearings can also cause hair pulling grief but once adjusted smiles usually ensue.
02-13-15, 05:37 AM
#6325
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 4,419
Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.
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Query for the group:
I'm currently working on a very nice condition '69 Raleigh Sprite (S-5 hub). Minus a few minor missing bits which I can easily order, the biggest problem I've got is that the chrome peeled off the left crank arm completely. Anyone out there have a spare left arm with decent chrome from a Sprite, Sports or some other like Raleigh they'd care to sell? I've found a few complete 3-speed cranksets on eBay, although I hate to replace the whole unit, as the chrome on the right side is just fine. And I've considered taking the arm in to a local chrome shop (still an option), although I have a feeling that'll be more expensive than buying a complete crank.
This isn't the first time I've noticed this on a late-60's/70's Raleigh. The chrome on the left arm of my Twenty is marginal and probably going to get rechromed one of these days. And a couple other Sports I've had pass thru the shop have had the left side in worse condition than the right. Were they chroming in different vats, or is this just the effect of lubricant fling from the drive side?
I'm currently working on a very nice condition '69 Raleigh Sprite (S-5 hub). Minus a few minor missing bits which I can easily order, the biggest problem I've got is that the chrome peeled off the left crank arm completely. Anyone out there have a spare left arm with decent chrome from a Sprite, Sports or some other like Raleigh they'd care to sell? I've found a few complete 3-speed cranksets on eBay, although I hate to replace the whole unit, as the chrome on the right side is just fine. And I've considered taking the arm in to a local chrome shop (still an option), although I have a feeling that'll be more expensive than buying a complete crank.
This isn't the first time I've noticed this on a late-60's/70's Raleigh. The chrome on the left arm of my Twenty is marginal and probably going to get rechromed one of these days. And a couple other Sports I've had pass thru the shop have had the left side in worse condition than the right. Were they chroming in different vats, or is this just the effect of lubricant fling from the drive side?
__________________
Syke
No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
Syke
No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
