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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 03-20-15, 08:13 PM
  #6901  
gna
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Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
A couple of years ago I found a pretty nice example of one of the last Raleighs brought into this country that had been manufactured in Nottingham. A nephew who was working in Charleston procured it for me after I'd negotiated with and PayPal'ed the original owner's son. That gent's mom had bought the bike new in Charleston, S.C. and it had always been kept out of the rain.

My sister saw the bike when her son brought it home here to the Piedmont and she really took a liking to it.

So, I put it on the "roundtuit" list straightaway to fix the old girl up and gift it to her and I finally got it finished a couple of weeks ago.

[I'd planned to gift it to her at Christmas but my wife broke her ankle on Pearl Harbor Day last year - she's a regular titanium-enhanced bionic woman now!]

Anyway, a few notes on the pics, in roughly chronological order:

1] I really like the two tone frames in these last English Raleighs. Front reflector is another accommodation of Nanny; headbadge reads: The Raleigh, Nottingham, England.
2] I don't like the metal plate that the rear brake attaches to...
3] The OEM Brooks mattress saddle was gone and there was a run of the mill Schwinn branded MTB saddle on the bike when I bought it. If my sister is a good girl and rides the bike regularly I will replace this Selle Royal and surprise her with a Brooks B66S next Christmas...
4] In 1979 Raleigh had apparently done away with the "R" nuts on the cotter pins. The chain guard is distinctive to these last Raleighs.
5] However, they'd retained them on the front axle nuts.
6] A 1979 Sports had the "coffin" rear reflector; doubtless attributable to Nanny.
7] Hub is a February 1979 coded one.
8] I've put a rubber gasket around the OEM Pletscher Esge kisckstand; I like the way it mutes the "snik".
9] Shifter works great, hate that the face plate went missing. Again, if she rides the bike I'll remedy this make-do solution.
10] Seat tube detail.
I like the two-tone frames, too. I fixed up a silver/blue one like this for a friend of my wife's, and I found blue tires for it at the recyclers. It looks sharp. On the other hand, a late '70s dark blue Sports passed through my hands, and the brazing and finishing were ghastly. No doubt built on Friday afternoon after lunch at the pub.

The flat plate sure makes it easy to mount Pletscher rack, though.

I have couple of those black plastic shifters--one the sticker is bubbling up and ready to come off, the other is long gone. My other shifters are all the plastic-face-that-gets-cracked variety mentioned earlier in this thread.
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Old 03-20-15, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash5
That was my plan for a winter project.
Started watching for an old 25" frame in the early winter which is a mistake in a cold climate. Nothing cheap enough to strip.
Mentioned in the bike co-op about wanting to build 700C wheels with a 3 speed hub. Guy told me they might have just what I wanted. Took me to their storage and showed me a dutch city bike that they had put aside as not worth fixing up. Had Sturmey Archer drum hubs with 700C stainless rims.
Stripped the frame and scrapped it, cleaned the wheels and greased the hubs. Still couldn't find a frame so decided to use a single speed Trek Earl I had laying around.
It was a lot of work - the non-standard tubing sizes meant I had to make almost all of the fittings. Cut strips of stainless steel, bent them to shape and then polished. Amazing how hard it is to find silver parts anymore.
And of course, just as I was finishing up, I found my cheap 25" frame - a Raleigh Grand Prix, should be perfect.
The Trek is a bit small for me and with the drop bars, just too low - specially at the beginning of the season like this.
Not sure if I should build the Raleigh up as a second frame and swap the wheels in and out or just move everything over.

First real ride was today - it's only been around the block testing before today.





Nice lookin' bike.
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Old 03-20-15, 08:53 PM
  #6903  
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Originally Posted by gna
I like the two-tone frames, too. I fixed up a silver/blue one like this for a friend of my wife's, and I found blue tires for it at the recyclers. It looks sharp. On the other hand, a late '70s dark blue Sports passed through my hands, and the brazing and finishing were ghastly. No doubt built on Friday afternoon after lunch at the pub.

The flat plate sure makes it easy to mount Pletscher rack, though.

I have couple of those black plastic shifters--one the sticker is bubbling up and ready to come off, the other is long gone. My other shifters are all the plastic-face-that-gets-cracked variety mentioned earlier in this thread.
Blue tires would be striking indeed with those blue frame hi-lites. Re shifters: yeah I have accumulated a few of the all metal ones but they all came off weathered bikes and thus are weathered themselves so I don't know if they're worth pressing into service with a new one available for $15 or so... Why TI "dumbed them down" so much is one of those inexplicable things in the history of these great bikes.
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Old 03-20-15, 08:55 PM
  #6904  
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Originally Posted by Slash5




Brass pulley wheel?
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Old 03-20-15, 09:51 PM
  #6905  
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Originally Posted by gna
Pre- '52 they went on the left. They had a different adjustable cone/locknut arrangement. Post '52 they should go on the right, but I don't think it matters as much as a regular Raleigh three speed front hub, where the adjustable cone must go on the left, as the dynohub has a locknut.
Thank you. That's curiously interesting. Wonder why they changed.
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Old 03-20-15, 10:01 PM
  #6906  
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Originally Posted by Slash5
[...] Had Sturmey Archer drum hubs with 700C stainless rims. [...]
Those appear to be very nice rims, very similar to the rims on the 51 Raleigh Sports step-through that we have. Is there any brand ID on the rims?

And, what sized tires are those?

And clips and straps.

I love the look of that bicycle.
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Old 03-21-15, 10:07 AM
  #6907  
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Originally Posted by arex
At a previous job, our regular UPS guy always said to pack stuff like it was going to be tossed out of the back of a moving truck, because half the time it would be.
Or, as put by another UPS driver, pack it in case it falls from a drop of six feet. This is (supposedly) the average drop when a box falls off of a conveyor at a UPS hub.

Originally Posted by desconhecido
...So, about a month ago I ordered a small electric chain saw from Amazon. FedEx was the carrier. At just after noon on the day it was supposed to be delivered I happened to check Amazon and the tracking info said it had been delivered at 12:04 pm. I went outside and looked -- no package...About four days later, I got a call from somebody asking, "Are you Des Conhecido?"...it turns out it was some guy who lives about a half mile away on an E&W ("North St", it runs E&W -- go figure) street (ours is N&S) with a house number about 1600 different from ours. "Just came home, I was out of town, there's a package on my front porch with your address on it."
Last year I got a rack shipped by Fedex. Somehow FedEx bungled my address so much they ended up, get this--delivering it to an address I lived at ten years ago. Only found this out when the person living at that house called me up about it!
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Old 03-21-15, 10:41 AM
  #6908  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Those appear to be very nice rims, very similar to the rims on the 51 Raleigh Sports step-through that we have. Is there any brand ID on the rims?
I too would like to find a source for modern rims in that pattern....700C is fine, though 650A would be nicer!

Originally Posted by desconhecido
I love the look of that bicycle.
What he said....
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Old 03-21-15, 12:45 PM
  #6909  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Thank you. That's curiously interesting. Wonder why they changed.
Not sure. See Dynohubs

SPECIAL NOTE. - GH6 hubs prior to 1952 had the adjusting cone on the dynamo side. This cone is extended to pass through the armature body and is flatted at the outer end to take (K428) notched adjuster washer, by means of which the cone may be turned. Dismantling instructions from 1 to 5 remain exactly the same as for the current model. For paragraph 6 read 'Unscrew the dynamo-side cone and lift the ball cage out of the hub shell. The spindle may now be pulled out from the other side, together with the fixed cone.'

Though on another page, Sheldon states:
GH6 lighting sets [front dynohub's] should have the terminals parallel with the axle flats. The notched washer has not been fitted to GH6 hubs since 1954 when the adjusting cone was transferred to the side away from the Dynohub.

Before spinning a wheel to test the output of the Dynohub, ensure that the axle nuts are tight, otherwise the terminals may foul the front fork and be damaged if the axle revolves.


So you have your choice of 1952 or 1954. I think Kurt had a bike with one of the old Dynohubs. You might be able to find the thread... EDIT:

See https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...1-machine.html

Last edited by gna; 03-21-15 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Found Thread
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Old 03-21-15, 02:49 PM
  #6910  
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Originally Posted by gna
Not sure. See Dynohubs

[...]

There should be a rule. Whenever someone (like me) has a question about this stuff, see what Sheldon had to say. He was a force. He helped so many of us that never actually knew him.
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Old 03-21-15, 04:22 PM
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Spring Has Sprung!
Finally, a pleasant day here in Toronto and I took Ol' faithful out for a ride.
1978 Canadian built Raleigh Superbe.
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Old 03-21-15, 04:38 PM
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Spring Has Sprung!
Finally, a pleasant day here in Toronto and I took Ol' Faithful out for a ride.
1978 Canadian built Raleigh Superbe.
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Old 03-21-15, 04:47 PM
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^ Very nice! I hope to get my Superbe out once a bit more of our snow goes away. I'm going to be in Toronto next week for something like 12 hours, so I'll keep an eye out for classic Raleighs!
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Old 03-21-15, 06:00 PM
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@gster nice bike .. it snowed here yesterday . i haven't even ridden mine since i got it .. it shines like the sun , inside ... is your rear reflector upside down ?
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Old 03-21-15, 07:42 PM
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Never noticed that.....
I've had the bike for 6 years!
Will check it out.
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Old 03-21-15, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
So is that a drum brake in front & 3 speed hub/drum brake rear? Can any bike take drum brakes? Are there any special specifications for a front fork to be able to take drum brakes? Are those Sturmey Archer? I assume they are. So is that the old Raleigh or the newer one? Hard to tell.
Yes, drum front and 3 speed AW hub with drum. Both Sturmey Archer. Unfortunately the chrome on both hubs is in poor shape.
Bikes with forks designed for drum brakes have a integral slot for the drum brake reaction arm but you can buy bolt on clips. I had to make my own, you can see it half way up the fork leg. I expect the drum does stress the fork at a spot it wasn't designed for. I figure people with setup's like this aren't going to be out doing stoppies so likely not a problem.

This is the Trek Earl - a modern chrome moly single speed with double top tube.
I've got another drum brake equipped 3 speed I'll get pictures of up soon.

Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
Brass pulley wheel?
I had to make almost all of the fittings since the tubing sizes are odd. Made the downtube cable clips, front and rear brake clips, the cable pulley and clip, the brake cable ends for the drums, the gear shifter ferrule and the fulcrum insert. Cut strips of stainless steel, bent and folded and then polished.

Originally Posted by desconhecido
Those appear to be very nice rims, very similar to the rims on the 51 Raleigh Sports step-through that we have. Is there any brand ID on the rims?
And, what sized tires are those?
The rims are marked:
VAN SCHOTHORST STAINLESS 20X622 28X1 5/8 04 90 FO1C
The rear looks a bit wider but is just marked VAN SCHOTHORST STAINLESS 622.
Tires were already on the rims and appear to be in good shape.
Rubena Flash 32X622 28X 1 1/4X 1 3/4





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Old 03-21-15, 08:31 PM
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Old 03-21-15, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
So, that got me thinking about the Dynohub and I can't remember which side has the Dyno and which side has the hub. Seems to me that the Dyno part goes on the right, but on the rear hub with the Dyno it would be on the left. Does it matter? I searched for images, and some people are destras and some sinistras.
I poked around a bit more, and found this (look under hub bearing adjustment):



At this useful site: Sturmey Archer Dynohub

So it appears you can put your Dynohub front wheel any way you want, at least the post '52 models. As a guess, and only that, I'd guess most people in England put the Dyno on the right so they could mount the wires and lights on the right side. Then that became the "preferred" method. I suppose in America you may want everything on the left.
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Old 03-21-15, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash5
[...]
I had to make almost all of the fittings since the tubing sizes are odd. Made the downtube cable clips, front and rear brake clips, the cable pulley and clip, the brake cable ends for the drums, the gear shifter ferrule and the fulcrum insert. Cut strips of stainless steel, bent and folded and then polished.
[...]
So, you turned the pulley? Is it a personal lathe or do you have access to one? I used to have access to a Clausing, but no more -- that was about 20 years ago. I've turned brass on my wood lathe (for the butt of a chisel handle) and it turned out ok, considering I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, but turning something precision on a wood lathe isn't obviously easy.

So, 32mm tires. I was going to guess some sort of Schwalbe with the reflective stripe.
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Old 03-21-15, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gna
I poked around a bit more, and found this (look under hub bearing adjustment):[...]

So it appears you can put your Dynohub front wheel any way you want, at least the post '52 models. As a guess, and only that, I'd guess most people in England put the Dyno on the right so they could mount the wires and lights on the right side. Then that became the "preferred" method. I suppose in America you may want everything on the left.
Thank you. That's pretty much what I figured. I'll plan on going with the dyno on the right -- don't want to be gauche.
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Old 03-22-15, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash5
I had to make almost all of the fittings since the tubing sizes are odd. Made the downtube cable clips, front and rear brake clips, the cable pulley and clip, the brake cable ends for the drums, the gear shifter ferrule and the fulcrum insert. Cut strips of stainless steel, bent and folded and then polished.
Very nice work.

I'd like to know what kind of cutting tools and press you used to fabricate the stainless steel clips. I have found that there's a real scarcity of metal frame clips on these old bikes when I get one and it would make sense to fab them up myself when doing a resurrection. Maybe a separate thread on that?

Oh, and is the pulley wheel indeed brass and if so, what kind of stock did you start with? Like everyone else probably, I might find working with brass a lot more accessible than with SS!
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Old 03-22-15, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
I'll plan on going with the dyno on the right -- don't want to be gauche.
Ha-ha. I saw what you did there...
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Old 03-22-15, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Ha-ha. I saw what you did there...
Yes, very sinister of me. Perhaps it comes to me as a result of growing up near the Left Bank of the Fox. If you're looking up stream, that is.

I was talking to my wife about riding across Iowa with my younger sister back in 2010 and how the longest ride was about 80 miles or so. We talked about a ride we took back in about 1972. We started out from the east end of Menasha intending to ride to High Cliff and back. When we got to the top, we discussed it and decided, what the Hell, in for a penny, in for a trip to Fond du Lac. Stopped for beer at a roadside bar south of Oshkosh. All the way around Lake Winnebago was about 85 miles, plus or minus. She on her Schwinn Suburban step-through with gigantic baskets on the back -- big enough to house a family of four and tires about the correct size for a Peterbuilt. I was riding a German bike that I bought over there while on an Army tour for, as I recall, about $45. It had those Simplex plastic derailleurs -- much maligned, but they worked. Of course, once we got to the top of High Cliff, it was all down hill the rest of the way around. East central Wisconsin is pretty darned flat.
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Old 03-22-15, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
Very nice work.

I'd like to know what kind of cutting tools and press you used to fabricate the stainless steel clips. I have found that there's a real scarcity of metal frame clips on these old bikes when I get one and it would make sense to fab them up myself when doing a resurrection. Maybe a separate thread on that? [...]
You can form sheet metal around wooden forms. Experimental aircraft people are probably the best at doing this sort of thing and you can find videos and such put out by the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Asscociation) with demonstrations. For a simple clamp, I'd start with a round form and press the metal around it into the desired shape. Start with the metal a bit wider than the final desired width but with the forms about the exact desired width, then file while clamped to get the correct shape. Smooth and de-burr to remove the sharp edge. I don't know that that is how it was done for this example, but if I had to do it, that's the way I'd do it without investing in a bunch of sheet metal tools.

Aluminum sheet is probably easier to work than SS, if you want to experiment.
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Old 03-22-15, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
East central Wisconsin is pretty darned flat.
Yeah, High Cliff is the only significant hill for miles around. There a couple short & steep roads over the drumlins by Hortonville, but they're not a long or tall as High Cliff.
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