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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 02-14-16, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Stuck cotters are such a shame. It needn't happen. 3 minutes with a file and a bench vice is all that's needed to properly fit a cotter pin. From the looks of this, how uneven the surface of the pin is, you'll never be able to drill a straight hole through it and the crank and shaft might be ruined. Might be worth cutting off a bit of a bolt and try pressing it through. Or you could clean up the surface with a round dremel grinder and center punching a clean center for drilling.
I've drilled out cotters, and it's quite a chore (and you need some very fresh drill bits). I've also managed to squeeze out ones like those shown by using a cotter press and a socket slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the hole in the crank arm.
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Old 02-14-16, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by arex
Show pics!
Yeah, I want to see photos of nogliders fabled Rudge, at least to prove that it's real.
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Old 02-14-16, 11:26 AM
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My friend George, from Parts Unknown on Fraser Street, here in Toronto has one of these vintage presses that REALLY works.
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Old 02-14-16, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesj
I really miss my 3 speed. I want to get started working on the sprite i have but the cotters look like this.

I drilled one bad one by starting with smaller drills (less than 1/4 ") until it reached the edge of the crank, let it soak and it pushed out in one piece. Get as much metal out as you can and don't give up!
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Old 02-14-16, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
I cannot claim to be one of the 3 speed lovers but I've now put a toe in your pond. I have a strange Raleigh Sports that belongs to a friend. I'm doing some overhaul work on it during this wicked cold and, today, completed my first 3 speed IGH overhaul. I'm pretty impressed with you folks who really know these Rube-Goldbergs. I confess I still don't really know how it works but it came all apart and back together and works fine. I've learned a lot.

When I got it, the indicator spindle was broken off down in the axle - only two links of chain were attached and nothing was left outside, nothing to get a grip on. So I had to disassemble the whole shebang so I could slide the rod up, get a hold on the end and unscrew it from that pin that goes thru the axle. Of course, I then had to clean and repack all the bearings and clean and oil the rest. I got it all back together yesterday and it did not work - the cog would not turn the wheel. I took it all apart again today (while tending the wood stove) and studied the insides. I cannot describe what I found as I don't know all the part names but I found two reasons why it may have been binding and resolved them. Back together and it all works fine now. I'll visit a friend later this week who probably has a new indicator spindle. Otherwise I'll order on line. Its been fun and a real learning experience.

No photos but you all know what a 1973 SA SC3 looks like, probably have the guts memorized. I'm just a IGH noob here.

BTW: strange Raleigh Sports as it's a pretty small frame, 26 inch tires, coaster brake and no hand brakes, 1971 frame and 1973 rear hub. It looks just like a Canadian Gents Model 99 from 1954 - curved top tube and all but the S/N matches The Head Badge's 1971 pattern. I assume it was a European model brought over some time since '71. Nice bike but too small for me.
You have a camel back frame with the infamous coaster brake hub. I have one frame hanging in the rafters with most of its original parts, and a ladies bike all built up and working. I also have a rear wheel with an SC3 that defies all attempts to work well. That is on my back burner now. Sounds like you learned a lot though. Welcome.
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Old 02-14-16, 01:41 PM
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What wheel size came on a 1956 Raleigh Sports with a dyno front wheel? Was it EA1 or 650A?
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Old 02-14-16, 02:13 PM
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I think it should be EA3, 26x1-3/8.

Originally Posted by MeatloafOvadose
What wheel size came on a 1956 Raleigh Sports with a dyno front wheel? Was it EA1 or 650A?
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Old 02-14-16, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx
Yeah, I want to see photos of nogliders fabled Rudge, at least to prove that it's real.
Tom picked a good time to visit. It's been rainy here for a while, but now cooler dryer air has moved in and it's perfect riding weather.
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Old 02-15-16, 08:11 AM
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Old 02-16-16, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Yeah, I realize speed is about the rider, but that's not what I'm talking about. I guess I can say that it's not fun to ride. It's very bland....like vanilla ice cream.

I guess it's the geometry and the heavy wheels. I think I'm coming to realizations about the kind of ride I enjoy best.
Originally Posted by Velocivixen


I love the Tektro 559 brakes. Yes, they spoil the vintage look to the bike, but one of the Mai things I don't like about riding vintage three speeds is poor braking and fear of the dreaded shift cable maladjustment where you get between 2nd & 3rd and you're just spinning. It's happened to me despite knowing how to adjust, etc. and it's quite alarming.

If I decide to build new wheels I may get a new SA 3-speed hub so not have to worry about it.
@velovixen- Sorry I'm late on this. Installing the CR-18s definitely helped on my '72 Superbe, but that was not the end of it. I installed newer brake pads on the original brakes- and that got me good braking. The key is to allow for a fair bit of travel on the brake lever before the pads engage. If you don't do that, the bike will be harder to stop!

Also, I'm a fan of the Michelins, which allow for 85 pounds in the tire. That made a big difference over the Kendas, although the ride is not as soft.
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Old 02-16-16, 01:47 PM
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Cotterpin removers/installers.

Here's my tool for cotterpin removal.
Never failed for me.
Pretty obvious how it works.

It is actually a Ball Joint Splitter. Available from MachineMart, etc. for £7/8 a few years ago.


Slight modification on the contact point, I just drilled a slight indent to locate the pin under pressure.
It's tough enough to whack it with a hammer once it is under pressure.
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Old 02-16-16, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bicyclz
Here's my tool for cotterpin removal.
Never failed for me.
Pretty obvious how it works.

It is actually a Ball Joint Splitter. Available from MachineMart, etc. for £7/8 a few years ago.


Slight modification on the contact point, I just drilled a slight indent to locate the pin under pressure.
It's tough enough to whack it with a hammer once it is under pressure.
So you have the cool bikes AND the cool tools! MachineMart is not on this side of the Pond. Have yet to see anything in the Harbor/ Northern variety here. I used the chain break tool but pins bent after awhile and the adjustment space was hard to get it around some arms to align with the Cotters.
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Old 02-16-16, 02:52 PM
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Harbor Freight has something similar
3/4" Forged Ball Joint Separator
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Old 02-16-16, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Slash5
Harbor Freight has something similar
3/4" Forged Ball Joint Separator
@Slash5
That's the style. And affordable. I always thought MachineMart was an American outfit!? I live & learn still....
@3speedslow
I do have a few cool tools also, but I sold most of my kit when I moved into my small retirement apartment.... No workshop....
BB taps, head set presses, you name it. I regret it now: (
Still got some cool bikes though; )
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Old 02-16-16, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DQRider
Ahhhh... yes, that makes sense. Well, I will probably run out of project$ before we run out of winter - so I guess I can pull those wheels and washer them up. The spokes did seem a bit long on that `63 Dunelt. I recall I had to grind some of them down to the nipple tops so they wouldn't protrude from the double-wall rim. I will probably have to rebuild that one with new spokes, now that I've buggered up the threads.

Well, thanks. I know it's the right thing to do. It's just kind of a faff, as they say in old Blighty.
Probably read Mark Stonich's SA tips: https://bikesmithdesign.com/SA/sa-tips.pdf

He recommends washers. I suppose the spokes could break at the bends without them.

Several people I know have built wheels without them, though, so rebuild them if you must but YMMV.

Last edited by gna; 02-16-16 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 02-16-16, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
I cannot claim to be one of the 3 speed lovers but I've now put a toe in your pond. I have a strange Raleigh Sports that belongs to a friend. I'm doing some overhaul work on it during this wicked cold and, today, completed my first 3 speed IGH overhaul. I'm pretty impressed with you folks who really know these Rube-Goldbergs. I confess I still don't really know how it works but it came all apart and back together and works fine. I've learned a lot.

When I got it, the indicator spindle was broken off down in the axle - only two links of chain were attached and nothing was left outside, nothing to get a grip on. So I had to disassemble the whole shebang so I could slide the rod up, get a hold on the end and unscrew it from that pin that goes thru the axle. Of course, I then had to clean and repack all the bearings and clean and oil the rest. I got it all back together yesterday and it did not work - the cog would not turn the wheel. I took it all apart again today (while tending the wood stove) and studied the insides. I cannot describe what I found as I don't know all the part names but I found two reasons why it may have been binding and resolved them. Back together and it all works fine now. I'll visit a friend later this week who probably has a new indicator spindle. Otherwise I'll order on line. Its been fun and a real learning experience.

No photos but you all know what a 1973 SA SC3 looks like, probably have the guts memorized. I'm just a IGH noob here.

BTW: strange Raleigh Sports as it's a pretty small frame, 26 inch tires, coaster brake and no hand brakes, 1971 frame and 1973 rear hub. It looks just like a Canadian Gents Model 99 from 1954 - curved top tube and all but the S/N matches The Head Badge's 1971 pattern. I assume it was a European model brought over some time since '71. Nice bike but too small for me.
Usually the coaster models had a front brake. Unusual.





Originally Posted by dweenk
You have a camel back frame with the infamous coaster brake hub. I have one frame hanging in the rafters with most of its original parts, and a ladies bike all built up and working. I also have a rear wheel with an SC3 that defies all attempts to work well. That is on my back burner now. Sounds like you learned a lot though. Welcome.
TCW is the infamous coaster brake hub. S3C isn't bad--not good, mind you, but not bad. I've rebuilt a couple and they can be a pain to get adjusted.

Last edited by gna; 02-16-16 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 02-17-16, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gna
Probably read Mark Stonich's SA tips: https://bikesmithdesign.com/SA/sa-tips.pdf

He recommends washers. I suppose the spokes could break at the bends without them.

Several people I know have built wheels without them, though, so rebuild them if you must but YMMV.
Steel SA hubs have thin flanges and modern spokes have elbows for aluminium hubs which have a wider flange so the washers (which cost next to nothing) support the spoke and build a much better wheel.

I have worked on quite a few vintage SA wheels that also had spoke washers which are softer than the steel and seat the elbow on the steel flange better.
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Old 02-17-16, 10:15 AM
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I have a SA 3 speed in a steel wheel that I liberated from a ladies Schwinn.
And a loose SA too.
How to check the functionality of it before lacing to a wheel ?
Thanks.
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Old 02-17-16, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gna
Usually the coaster models had a front brake. Unusual.






Thanks!! What year and country is that catalog page from? The bike I have here looks just like the DL-58. Same color, fenders, rack, bars, hockey stick. 18 inch ST and 26 in tires. This hockey stick says Sport vs Colt. Could easily have been changed along the way. I may be mistaken about the front brake. Just cuz it's not there now does not mean it never was. I don't see clear signs that a lever was clamped to the bar but I checked this afternoon and it does look like there was a caliper there on the fork at one time - paint scratched around both holes. The bike here is no jewel. Mostly working on it to learn a few things - waiting for spring.
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Old 02-17-16, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Prowler
Thanks!! What year and country is that catalog page from? The bike I have here looks just like the DL-58. Same color, fenders, rack, bars, hockey stick. 18 inch ST and 26 in tires. This hockey stick says Sport vs Colt. Could easily have been changed along the way. I may be mistaken about the front brake. Just cuz it's not there now does not mean it never was. I don't see clear signs that a lever was clamped to the bar but I checked this afternoon and it does look like there was a caliper there on the fork at one time - paint scratched around both holes. The bike here is no jewel. Mostly working on it to learn a few things - waiting for spring.
I believe it is from the 1974 Raleigh catalog. The back cover lists USA addresses:



from www.bulgier.net - /pics/bike/Catalogs/Raleigh74/
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Old 02-20-16, 07:33 PM
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I almost came home with a late-'50s Hercules frame from a shop in Moab, UT. Imagining my wife's ire at more bike stuff cluttering the living room stayed my hand.
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Old 02-20-16, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by arex
I almost came home with a late-'50s Hercules frame from a shop in Moab, UT. Imagining my wife's ire at more bike stuff cluttering the living room stayed my hand.
You could have just store the new one in the dining room!
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Old 02-21-16, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
You could have just store the new one in the dining room!
That's where my '66 all-chrome Raleigh Sports lives!

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Old 02-21-16, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by arex
I almost came home with a late-'50s Hercules frame from a shop in Moab, UT. Imagining my wife's ire at more bike stuff cluttering the living room stayed my hand.
I'm good about passing up bikes in good condition. It's the messed up, un-ridable ones that get me every time. I just can't resist fixing nice old but neglected bikes. My wife can't really complain. Se has more "stuff" around than I do.
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Old 02-21-16, 01:08 PM
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@nlerner- all chrome?! I didn't know they came that way. So no paint? Or paint over all chrome?

Also cute kittie head. Who's that?
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