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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 03-14-16, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
So who all is on the Pepin ride this year?

I'm going. Not sorted which bikes to bring. But the Riva-Sport is on the road now, so its a contender.
All three of us are going.


Last edited by gna; 03-14-16 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 03-14-16, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gna
I straightened one with a long piece of pipe.

i honestly wouldnt know where to start. I Can barely see the bend when spinning it. You can feel it pedaling though......it feels akward....like a clown bike.....drives me nuts. IF i tried to straighten it ...it would go from bad to worse. I am really surprised you can bend cast metal. Id thing it would snap.

At this point im going to hunt out one more co-op here and see what they have.

I found one but it was a girls bike crank so much fewer teeth. Perhaps that wouldnt be a bad idea because the first thing i did on my other 3 speed is upgrade/change out the rear cog so i could use all gears more effectively. Helped my knees a ton. I wanna say i went to a 22t? I cant remember. Id have to look. ITs the one sheldon sells at Harris.
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Old 03-14-16, 08:14 PM
  #9753  
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Originally Posted by scale
i honestly wouldnt know where to start. I Can barely see the bend when spinning it. You can feel it pedaling though......it feels akward....like a clown bike.....drives me nuts. IF i tried to straighten it ...it would go from bad to worse. I am really surprised you can bend cast metal. Id thing it would snap.

At this point im going to hunt out one more co-op here and see what they have.

I found one but it was a girls bike crank so much fewer teeth. Perhaps that wouldnt be a bad idea because the first thing i did on my other 3 speed is upgrade/change out the rear cog so i could use all gears more effectively. Helped my knees a ton. I wanna say i went to a 22t? I cant remember. Id have to look. ITs the one sheldon sells at Harris.
What does it look like? Like this?

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Old 03-14-16, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gna
What does it look like? Like this?

yup. Except it has NR in the chain ring for Raleigh Nottingham. But yes.....just like every other 3 speed cottered crank that came out of that massive raleigh factory i assume.
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Old 03-15-16, 06:55 AM
  #9755  
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Originally Posted by gna
What cables?

I'd buy that now if was in Virginia.
Yes, by all means! Mine was in much worse shape than that when I started, and you saw what I ended up with. This one looks like all the original parts are salvageable. Definitely a smokin' deal.
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Old 03-15-16, 07:11 AM
  #9756  
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[QUOTE=arex;18609587]I just popped out the crank cotters on the Twenty, but it looks like I lightly boogered the threads on one of them. These are original, with the (R) nuts on them, so I'd like to reuse them if I can.

I've used small section needle files and chased the threads by hand, with a magnifier/light. Not difficult.
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Old 03-15-16, 07:33 AM
  #9757  
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Originally Posted by gna
I straightened one with a long piece of pipe.
Of course. However, a machine shop would be equipped to straighten it precisely, which would be pretty desirable if it's not a simple bend. I doubt they'd charge much, either.
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Old 03-15-16, 07:35 AM
  #9758  
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Originally Posted by scale
i honestly wouldnt know where to start. I Can barely see the bend when spinning it. You can feel it pedaling though......it feels akward....like a clown bike.....drives me nuts. IF i tried to straighten it ...it would go from bad to worse. I am really surprised you can bend cast metal. Id thing it would snap.

At this point im going to hunt out one more co-op here and see what they have.

I found one but it was a girls bike crank so much fewer teeth. Perhaps that wouldnt be a bad idea because the first thing i did on my other 3 speed is upgrade/change out the rear cog so i could use all gears more effectively. Helped my knees a ton. I wanna say i went to a 22t? I cant remember. Id have to look. ITs the one sheldon sells at Harris.
Check that crank you found to make sure the crank arms are the same length as yours before plunking down money.
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Old 03-15-16, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by scale
Thanks. I thought of that as well and it is the crank. IF i put it on the spindle with no cotter and use it like bearing to spin it on i can see the wobble. How the heck you bend a cast arm is beyond me. The chainring itself looks flat. I just want to try another one. With what i have time wise and cleaning into this bike you would all think im insane but i refuse to give up. It will ride again.
Back in the old days, there were tools made specifically for straightening cranks. Cyclo made one and I think Park did too. They were built so you didn't have to take the crank off of the bike. An oversize pipe will likely work quite well.


Originally Posted by arex
I just popped out the crank cotters on the Twenty, but it looks like I lightly boogered the threads on one of them. These are original, with the (R) nuts on them, so I'd like to reuse them if I can.

To that end, is there any good way to chase the threads to clean them up? I've never done it on threads this fine. What's the diameter and pitch of these threads?
The way to remove cotter pins is with a cotter pin press. You can find them on eBay for about $40, Bikesmith has them BikeSmith Design and Fabrication or you can fabricate one from a C-clamp. If you use a hammer, you are asking for trouble! You use the cotter press also to install the cotterpin; its not installed simply by tightening the nut! That is only there to retain the cotter pin after its pressed into place.
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Old 03-15-16, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gna
All three of us are going.

This year I'm going to get a better picture of you folks!
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Old 03-15-16, 12:08 PM
  #9761  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
The way to remove cotter pins is with a cotter pin press. You can find them on eBay for about $40, Bikesmith has them BikeSmith Design and Fabrication or you can fabricate one from a C-clamp. If you use a hammer, you are asking for trouble! You use the cotter press also to install the cotterpin; its not installed simply by tightening the nut! That is only there to retain the cotter pin after its pressed into place.
I was using a press.
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Old 03-15-16, 12:13 PM
  #9762  
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Andd yes, I am going to Lake Pepin! Third time.
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Old 03-15-16, 04:12 PM
  #9763  
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@arex - sorry about the bent cotter. I know Raleigh threading for headset was 26 tpi, as was their bottom bracket (vs 24 tpi) and the pitch was different. I'm not sure if it's the same on the cotters though.

Don't feel bad, I have a Park Tool Cotter press and still bent a cotter. It happens.

Could we see some update up close and personal of this R20 so far? Please?
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Old 03-15-16, 04:21 PM
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Rode the Raleigh Twenty in the rain (with fenders & mudguards). Went to a bike shop where the owner is retiring and bought some tools (posted on the show us your tools thread). My R20 is sporting a PDW cup holder on the front which carried hot coffee. Took binoculars also but didn't see or hear many birds. It rained most of the time.
R20 in the Forest by velocivixen, on FlickrCoffee on R20 by velocivixen, on Flickr
Raleigh Twenty Rain by velocivixen, on FlickrCrane Suzue Bell by velocivixen, on Flickr
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Old 03-15-16, 06:49 PM
  #9765  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@arex - sorry about the bent cotter. I know Raleigh threading for headset was 26 tpi, as was their bottom bracket (vs 24 tpi) and the pitch was different. I'm not sure if it's the same on the cotters though.

Don't feel bad, I have a Park Tool Cotter press and still bent a cotter. It happens.

Could we see some update up close and personal of this R20 so far? Please?
I'm led to understand that these cotters have some weird old Whitworth thread, so I doubt I could fix the threads in the regular way. I did get some needle files tonight, so I'm going to see what I can accomplish with those. The threaded portion of the cotter is only very slightly bent, probably not enough to matter. A thread or two at the tip got mooshed, but I think I can clean them up.

And...pictures? Nothing to see except a bare rusty frame, a large Rubbermaid tote, and a bunch of ziplocks full of bits and pieces.
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Old 03-15-16, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Rode the Raleigh Twenty in the rain (with fenders & mudguards). Went to a bike shop where the owner is retiring and bought some tools (posted on the show us your tools thread). My R20 is sporting a PDW cup holder on the front which carried hot coffee. Took binoculars also but didn't see or hear many birds. It rained most of the time.
Those are beautiful pics.
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Old 03-16-16, 07:43 AM
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What Are People Using for Racks on a DL-1?

After talking with some folks, and reading a few things here, I have decided to get a rack and mount panniers on my DL-1 for the Lake Pepin Tour. My question is this: Rather than trying to find an original Raleigh piece, or that cheap and heavy Iron Pigeon (seriously, has anybody actually seen one fly?) thing, what can I use for a rear rack on this bike that has 635mm wheels and no eyelet mounts? I've been thinking about buying a rack for a 700c bike, and then bodging it to fit with P-clamps; but I would rather do a cleaner installation that is more structurally sound.

Any suggestions?
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Old 03-16-16, 10:33 AM
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^^ There was a Prestube rack that was made for the Dawn Tourist, similar to a DL-1 but with an enclosed chain.

The struts were held in place by the SA axle nuts. Good luck finding one of those!

Thule makes one that will just bolt right up, but its not particularly vintage looking. If its hiding under some vintage panniers maybe no-one will notice.

https://www.bikebagshop.com/thule-tour-rack-p-3079.html
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Old 03-16-16, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
^^ There was a Prestube rack that was made for the Dawn Tourist, similar to a DL-1 but with an enclosed chain.

The struts were held in place by the SA axle nuts. Good luck finding one of those!

Thule makes one that will just bolt right up, but its not particularly vintage looking. If its hiding under some vintage panniers maybe no-one will notice.

https://www.bikebagshop.com/thule-tour-rack-p-3079.html
Thanks, Salubrious. I appreciate the effort. But since the only plastic on this bike is in the reflectors, I think I'll pass on the Thule. I'm going to try tracking down that Prestube rack. This is the first I've heard of it.
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Old 03-16-16, 11:34 AM
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The Prestube might be hard to find, at least one for a DL-1 or the like. Look into 'Midland Sport' on ebay and you will find something that works and has a bit more of the vintage feel.
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Old 03-16-16, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
The Prestube might be hard to find, at least one for a DL-1 or the like. Look into 'Midland Sport' on ebay and you will find something that works and has a bit more of the vintage feel.
I'm looking at an Axiom rack that seems perfect for this application. If it doesn't fit perfectly with the supplied hardware, it is set up so that I can easily build my own bracket to fit.
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Old 03-16-16, 12:24 PM
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@DQRider @Salubrious

Have you seen the custom racks offered by Red Barn? They fit DL-1s and look appropriate. Not cheap at $150.
Red Barn: Roadster Rack

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Old 03-16-16, 12:30 PM
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That does look handsome.

I've not yet figured out if I'm taking the BSA Golden Deluxe yet; might be the Humber Sports.
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Old 03-16-16, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by arex
Of course. However, a machine shop would be equipped to straighten it precisely, which would be pretty desirable if it's not a simple bend. I doubt they'd charge much, either.

Or sneak into Harbor Freight and abuse their "try before you buy" policy. I kid, I kid!
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Old 03-16-16, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@arex - sorry about the bent cotter. I know Raleigh threading for headset was 26 tpi, as was their bottom bracket (vs 24 tpi) and the pitch was different. I'm not sure if it's the same on the cotters though.
If you have the original cotters with the "R" nuts, they are Whitworth thread and not compatible with the threads on other brands' cotters. You can, however, replace the entire cotter assembly (pin and nut) with another brands' cotter assembly. Some judicious filing may be needed to achieve proper fit.
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