Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 04-08-16, 05:13 AM
  #10001  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
It was good to flood the AW hub with oil initially, but from now on, it will only require a few drops each season. In the long run, the hub shell will get dirty and need a cleaning, but there won't be any puddles.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 09:38 AM
  #10002  
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,588

Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by Loose Chain
No offense, lol, but this frame is like a soggy noodle. Which, for the intended purpose is not a disadvantage, the ride is soft and pleasant and even a little sporting (possibly because my frame is the 21 gives it a taughter feel). I like it and will quite enjoy it.

Does everything of British origin be required by some law, perhaps in the Magna Carta it is codified, that oil leaking is specified? Is a puddle of oil under the SA mandatory? My wife does not particularly care for this charming trait .
Its my opinion that the later years of Raleighs 3-speed production did them no favors. Tolerances in the SA hubs was not as good and it does seem that they leak more. The frames got whippier too. At least you know that if there is no puddle, its likely because its out of oil.

I find that a nice 1950s SA hub holds its oil "pretty well" (by seeming British standards of the day- I used to own a BSA Super Rocket and an Ariel Squarefour) and the bearing quality is equal to that of Campy no worries. The frame on my Humber seems quite a bit stiffer too.
Salubrious is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 10:33 AM
  #10003  
Senior Member
 
bmthom.gis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 2,980

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon 4 Rival; 2014 Cannondale Trail 7 29; 1972 Schwinn Suburban, 1996 Proflex 756, 1987(?) Peugeot, Dahon Speed P8; 1979 Raleigh Competition GS; 1995 Stumpjumper M2 FS, 1978 Raleigh Sports, Schwinn Prologue

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Laced up a new set of CR 18s last night to the SA hubs. What a great rim...had zero problems. My friend I did this with (cause he knows what he is doing, I do not, but now I know some) had some cool green nipples I used for the rear and the two spokes surrounding the valve stem hole on the front. If anyone ever steals it, at least it should make for an easy and unique ID. They aren't really that noticeable unless you take a good look.
bmthom.gis is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 11:06 AM
  #10004  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,335

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1936 Post(s)
Liked 1,041 Times in 625 Posts
They are great rims but for the life of me, I can't leave those stickers on.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 06:11 PM
  #10005  
Senior Member
 
Fenway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 425

Bikes: 1983 Peugeot UO14, KHS Green-Heavily modified, 1972 Raleigh Sprite 27" (work in progress)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by noglider
@Fenway, that's a pretty special bike you have there. Are you running your modern lights with an old 1.8w dynamo hub? How well does that work? I wouldn't have thought it possible.
I haven't taken a test ride with the lights yet due to a spate of garbage weather and on the one nice day, doing final adjustments prior to a planned test ride, I managed to drop a spanner on the indicator spindle snapping the chain. Picked up a replacement from Harris Cyclery after work today and will give it a go tomorrow.

The lights don't turn on at a walking pace, but if I spin the front wheel by hand they seem to work.

Edit: Fitted the water bottle cage. Fully kitted out exactly the way I want him now.


Last edited by Fenway; 04-08-16 at 07:29 PM.
Fenway is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 06:32 PM
  #10006  
Senior Member
 
Loose Chain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,067

Bikes: 84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 88 Centurion Prestige, 73 Raleigh Sports, GT Force, Bridgestone MB4

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Salubrious
Its my opinion that the later years of Raleighs 3-speed production did them no favors. Tolerances in the SA hubs was not as good and it does seem that they leak more. The frames got whippier too. At least you know that if there is no puddle, its likely because its out of oil.

I find that a nice 1950s SA hub holds its oil "pretty well" (by seeming British standards of the day- I used to own a BSA Super Rocket and an Ariel Squarefour) and the bearing quality is equal to that of Campy no worries. The frame on my Humber seems quite a bit stiffer too.
Interesting, SA did not go over to Sun until 2000? So when would you consider the later years of SA production?

You know, I took the thing apart, there really are no seals, once the oil level rises above the lip of the sides, the drive side in particular, I cannot see that oil would not spill out.

It is not that the frame feels weak, but there is not that springiness that I feel in my road bikes, I can get in plane with them, not sure with the Raleigh. But, it was not meant for that sort of riding so I am not being critical that I say it feels comparatively soft against by Pinarello. Plus there is the mush of the tires, I only have 50 psi in them. Maybe bump that up when I buy a more quality tire for it.

The Sun rims are the bomb!

J

Last edited by Loose Chain; 04-09-16 at 01:06 AM.
Loose Chain is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 08:01 PM
  #10007  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
I have an old Rudge that's in line for CR-18s. Do you mind if I pick your brain? What spokes did you use? Did you use washers to add thickness to the flange walls? was it the usual 40H and 32H with a 3x pattern? If so, I'd like to know what length spokes you used. Thanks
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 10:18 PM
  #10008  
Senior Member
 
Loose Chain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,067

Bikes: 84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 88 Centurion Prestige, 73 Raleigh Sports, GT Force, Bridgestone MB4

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
I have an old Rudge that's in line for CR-18s. Do you mind if I pick your brain? What spokes did you use? Did you use washers to add thickness to the flange walls? was it the usual 40H and 32H with a 3x pattern? If so, I'd like to know what length spokes you used. Thanks
I did not use washers. They are straight gauge DT with chrome brass nipples. They are laced 3X and my wheels, front and rear are 36 spokes. I do not see that washers are needed. I guess it could not hurt on the rear but I am not seeing how they could even be used on the tiny little front hub, so neither got them.

I have another bike and it is 32/40 but I have not started on it yet. It could be a ways down the road while I work on my Guerciotti SLX.

J
Loose Chain is offline  
Old 04-08-16, 11:57 PM
  #10009  
Senior Member
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,728
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 955 Post(s)
Liked 568 Times in 314 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
I have an old Rudge that's in line for CR-18s. Do you mind if I pick your brain? What spokes did you use? Did you use washers to add thickness to the flange walls? was it the usual 40H and 32H with a 3x pattern? If so, I'd like to know what length spokes you used. Thanks
I used washers (two under each spoke elbow). I used Sapim double butted stainless steel spokes from Danscomp. I did 3x on everything, including the front dynohub (usually 2x but I ordered longer spokes and tried 3x no problems). I would not build them without washers as my spoke elbows had lots of play on the flange without them.



Narhay is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 02:06 AM
  #10010  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by DQRider
Well said! I agree about the weight thing. Not much you can do when you start with that frame, and all the steel components. I suppose you could spend a fortune on alloy stuff, and maybe bring it down to as little as 28 lbs - but that would completely change the character of the bike, and probably not for the better.
By changing to alloy wheels and a modern IGH hub, you would eliminate a few pounds of weight and have a much nicer riding bicycle. Putting a three speed on a diet makes the bike really shine as day-to-day transportation.
NormanF is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 02:07 AM
  #10011  
Senior Member
 
Loose Chain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,067

Bikes: 84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 88 Centurion Prestige, 73 Raleigh Sports, GT Force, Bridgestone MB4

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 56 Posts
Are cork grips acceptable on a Raleigh. I find the original grips difficult to grip, plain and simple. They are hard and of small diameter. My hands are not so big but a touch of arthritis and all that and they just do not close down without tiring on the small grips.
Loose Chain is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 04:50 AM
  #10012  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by Loose Chain
Are cork grips acceptable on a Raleigh. I find the original grips difficult to grip, plain and simple. They are hard and of small diameter. My hands are not so big but a touch of arthritis and all that and they just do not close down without tiring on the small grips.
Yes! Cork grips and Brooks saddles fit right in the tradition of English roadsters.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 08:45 AM
  #10013  
Senior Member
 
clasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,736
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 147 Times in 102 Posts
I've rebuilt a couple of SA hubs into modern rims, I think the last time I used 272mm spokes in a 3 cross pattern. I didn't write it down anywhere but I have an empty 272mm bag of spokes kicking around and I don't think the math works out to use that size in any other wheels I've built. I used stainless m2 washers under my spokes on the rear, next time I do a dynohub I'll try building that with washers. I grab my washers from any fastener store, they are pretty cheap.
clasher is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 09:20 AM
  #10014  
Old Boy
 
DQRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,390

Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.

Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked 1,715 Times in 611 Posts
Originally Posted by clasher
I've rebuilt a couple of SA hubs into modern rims, I think the last time I used 272mm spokes in a 3 cross pattern. I didn't write it down anywhere but I have an empty 272mm bag of spokes kicking around and I don't think the math works out to use that size in any other wheels I've built. I used stainless m2 washers under my spokes on the rear, next time I do a dynohub I'll try building that with washers. I grab my washers from any fastener store, they are pretty cheap.
That's good to know. So lacing in the S-A hub doesn't require dishing, right?
DQRider is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 09:38 AM
  #10015  
Senior Member
 
clasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,736
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 147 Times in 102 Posts
Originally Posted by DQRider
That's good to know. So lacing in the S-A hub doesn't require dishing, right?
That's how I've always built them. I don't know that I've ever seen a wheel with an SA hub that is dished.
clasher is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 10:23 AM
  #10016  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Loose Chain
Are cork grips acceptable on a Raleigh. I find the original grips difficult to grip, plain and simple. They are hard and of small diameter. My hands are not so big but a touch of arthritis and all that and they just do not close down without tiring on the small grips.
Cork shatters easily. I've replaced mine with Origin8 Corkie rubber grips. Have the vintage look and they're durable.
NormanF is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 12:53 PM
  #10017  
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,588

Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked 254 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by Loose Chain
Interesting, SA did not go over to Sun until 2000? So when would you consider the later years of SA production?
Anything after 1974 or so.
Originally Posted by Loose Chain
You know, I took the thing apart, there really are no seals, once the oil level rises above the lip of the sides, the drive side in particular, I cannot see that oil would not spill out.
One thought is to grease the bearings, which helps to hold the oil in. But you don't need so much oil that it can breach the lip of the sides.
Originally Posted by Loose Chain

It is not that the frame feels weak, but there is not that springiness that I feel in my road bikes, I can get in plane with them, not sure with the Raleigh. But, it was not meant for that sort of riding so I am not being critical that I say it feels comparatively soft against by Pinarello. Plus there is the mush of the tires, I only have 50 psi in them. Maybe bump that up when I buy a more quality tire for it.

The Sun rims are the bomb!

J
I found that the lower pressure tires gave a soft ride, but were for sure slowing me down. Some people don't like the Michelins because of their reflective strip, but the additional tire pressure makes for a more sporting ride.


Originally Posted by Loose Chain
Are cork grips acceptable on a Raleigh. I find the original grips difficult to grip, plain and simple. They are hard and of small diameter. My hands are not so big but a touch of arthritis and all that and they just do not close down without tiring on the small grips.
I have the same problem. I have a set of Brooks leather grips on my bike. I got them for Christmas which is good because I would have paid almost as much for them as I did the bike itself. They are look nice and a lot more comfortable. I put cork on one of my Humber Sports and it definitely looks the part, and might be more comfortable than the Brooks.
Salubrious is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 01:37 PM
  #10018  
Senior Member
 
Fenway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 425

Bikes: 1983 Peugeot UO14, KHS Green-Heavily modified, 1972 Raleigh Sprite 27" (work in progress)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tested my bike today with the 6v 1.8w GH-6 Dynohub. While the lights initially wouldn't kick on at walking speed (as they do with a modern 6v 3.0w dynamo hub), at riding speed the tail light was immediately at full brightness and the headlight after a minute or two was at either full or at least decent output. Once the stand-light capacitors at riding speed the lights stayed lit for the standard ~5 minutes and then would function the same as a full power dynamo at walking speed (slight flicker). So it seems the downside to using one of these older dynamos is that at least until the stand-lights capacitors are fully charged the headlight won't have full output and that the capacitors probably take a little bit longer to fully charge. But at least otherwise they seem to work fine with modern LED lighting from B&M.
Fenway is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 05:35 PM
  #10019  
Senior Member
 
Loose Chain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,067

Bikes: 84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 88 Centurion Prestige, 73 Raleigh Sports, GT Force, Bridgestone MB4

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Salubrious
Anything after 1974 or so.

One thought is to grease the bearings, which helps to hold the oil in. But you don't need so much oil that it can breach the lip of the sides.


I found that the lower pressure tires gave a soft ride, but were for sure slowing me down. Some people don't like the Michelins because of their reflective strip, but the additional tire pressure makes for a more sporting ride.




I have the same problem. I have a set of Brooks leather grips on my bike. I got them for Christmas which is good because I would have paid almost as much for them as I did the bike itself. They are look nice and a lot more comfortable. I put cork on one of my Humber Sports and it definitely looks the part, and might be more comfortable than the Brooks.
Thanks for the excellent info. My SA is a 1973. I did grease the bearings of the hub upon reassembly on both sides and the "seal" area on the drive side. It just had too much oil in it I suppose. The leakage seems to have decreased . I have the cork grips, just need to think on it some if I want to install them.
Loose Chain is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 10:10 PM
  #10020  
Senior Member
 
markk900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,647
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 629 Times in 333 Posts
I really like the feel of the cork grips. They are not as durable as rubber (I did not shellac mine) but they are very comfortable.
markk900 is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 10:13 PM
  #10021  
Senior Member
 
Loose Chain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,067

Bikes: 84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 88 Centurion Prestige, 73 Raleigh Sports, GT Force, Bridgestone MB4

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 56 Posts
So on cork grips do y'all use varnish, shellac, or nothing?

Do you put them on with the hairspray?

J
Loose Chain is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 10:27 PM
  #10022  
Senior Member
 
markk900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,647
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked 629 Times in 333 Posts
I used nothing on the cork itself, and they went on a little loose on the bars so I put a couple of strips of tape spaced a couple inches apart and they are nice and firm now
markk900 is offline  
Old 04-09-16, 11:23 PM
  #10023  
Old Boy
 
DQRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,390

Bikes: Mostly 1st-generation, top-of-the-line, non-unicrown MTBs/ATBs: All 1984 models: Dawes Ranger, Peugeot Canyon Express, Ross Mt. Whitney (chrome), Schwinn High Sierra, and a 1983 Trek 850.

Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 984 Post(s)
Liked 1,715 Times in 611 Posts
Originally Posted by Loose Chain
So on cork grips do y'all use varnish, shellac, or nothing?

Do you put them on with the hairspray?

J
I used shellac, two coats, and not only did that make them more durable, but it improved the look as well. I used JB Weld clear RTV to secure them. This means I will have to cut them off and spend some time cleaning up when I replace them, but at least they are secure.


Last edited by DQRider; 04-09-16 at 11:28 PM.
DQRider is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 08:02 AM
  #10024  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,574

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 505 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7214 Post(s)
Liked 2,252 Times in 1,325 Posts
Originally Posted by Fenway
Tested my bike today with the 6v 1.8w GH-6 Dynohub. While the lights initially wouldn't kick on at walking speed (as they do with a modern 6v 3.0w dynamo hub), at riding speed the tail light was immediately at full brightness and the headlight after a minute or two was at either full or at least decent output. Once the stand-light capacitors at riding speed the lights stayed lit for the standard ~5 minutes and then would function the same as a full power dynamo at walking speed (slight flicker). So it seems the downside to using one of these older dynamos is that at least until the stand-lights capacitors are fully charged the headlight won't have full output and that the capacitors probably take a little bit longer to fully charge. But at least otherwise they seem to work fine with modern LED lighting from B&M.
That works better than you might hope for, so overall, it's a good deal.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 04-10-16, 11:25 AM
  #10025  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
A DL-1 I picked up recently has these pedals. Can anyone tell me what they're from/who makes them? I haven't seen any like them before:


streets is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.