Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 12-14-16, 06:05 PM
  #12151  
PalmettoUpstate 
Verified Antique
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DQRider View Post
Interesting. According to the brochure, the "shpg weight" for that bike was 43 lbs. Folks here were just discussing the different frame materials between Schwinn and Raleigh, and how the Schwinns were notably heavier. That seems to support the theory. Has anyone here weighed a similarly-equipped Raleigh Sports?
I don't think that figure can be interpolated as the actual weight of the bike. IMO, it probably reflects the bike weight AND packaging material. I'd be surprised if it weighed more than 38 lbs.

BTW, this bike is at the top of my "Bucket List" - not that it is any better than a nice Raleigh but it is oh so much rarer!

Also, those Bluemel's fenders are not correct on the bike to the best of my knowledge. Maybe a Schwinn aficionado can enlighten us...
PalmettoUpstate is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:08 PM
  #12152  
adventurepdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by DQRider View Post
Interesting. According to the brochure, the "shpg weight" for that bike was 43 lbs. Folks here were just discussing the different frame materials between Schwinn and Raleigh, and how the Schwinns were notably heavier. That seems to support the theory. Has anyone here weighed a similarly-equipped Raleigh Sports?
I'm wondering if that shipping weight is including all accessories and the shipping box/crate. The Paramount is chromoly, so the frame itself should theoretically be noticeably lighter than a similar Raleigh.
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:11 PM
  #12153  
adventurepdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate View Post
BTW, this bike (Schwinn Paramount three speed) is at the top of my "Bucket List" - not that it is any better than a nice Raleigh but it is oh so much rarer! Also, those Bluemel's fenders are not correct on the bike to the best of my knowledge. Maybe a Schwinn aficionado can enlighten us...
According to the flickr photo album description that I posted above, this Paramount is a restoration project. Not only does it have some different parts than stock (like the wheels) but it was repainted.
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:13 PM
  #12154  
adventurepdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by teisco View Post
Of course the Paramount would be the ultimate but way out of my price range. Is a beauty though.
My post wasn't necessarily directed at you. (And I don't know if this particular Paramount is for sale.)
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:15 PM
  #12155  
PalmettoUpstate 
Verified Antique
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
According to the flickr photo album description that I posted above, this Paramount is a restoration project. Not only does it have some different parts than stock (like the wheels) but it was repainted.
Did you do the resto?
PalmettoUpstate is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:19 PM
  #12156  
adventurepdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate View Post
Did you do the resto?
Oh gosh, no. You don't want me to get near bikes like this!
I'm just simply reposting something interesting that I found on the internets. Guess I didn't make myself clear. But to make myself clear, I have no connection to this bike or the person behind it.
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:23 PM
  #12157  
adventurepdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Can you believe they'd leave the PV locknut like this?!? For shame!
Attachment 545846
Because it's not really a bike thread on an internet forum until someone points out what's wrong with it!
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:27 PM
  #12158  
PalmettoUpstate 
Verified Antique
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
Oh gosh, no. You don't want me to get near bikes like this!
I'm just simply reposting something interesting that I found on the internets. Guess I didn't make myself clear. But to make myself clear, I have no connection to this bike or the person behind it.
Well it's beautiful work. Problem is, from my point of view, it's a beautiful "Frankenbike"...

Seriously, I have been looking for one of these - primarily using the "secret" Google Alert method that Tom Reingold shared a few years back - and they just don't show up.
@noglider ha-ha!
PalmettoUpstate is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:33 PM
  #12159  
adventurepdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 37 Posts
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate View Post
Well it's beautiful work. Problem is, from my point of view, it's a beautiful "Frankenbike"...
I get that. I sort of figured that someone would point out what's "wrong" with this bike, since whomever this is didn't try to restore it exactly like it would be from 1951. But I'm okay with that, as to me, it's the spirit that counts and it looks good. It's a lot better than the 40's Schwinn Superior that was posted on Portland CL for a bit, where the owner put 700C wheels and a modern cotterless crankset on there. And my 1968 Raleigh Superbe has a bunch of new bits on it that wouldn't have been available back then, but still looks the part. To each their own.

Last edited by adventurepdx; 12-14-16 at 06:35 PM. Reason: left something out
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 06:59 PM
  #12160  
thumpism
Senior Member
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 8,771

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2555 Post(s)
Liked 2,068 Times in 1,349 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
Because it's not really a bike thread on an internet forum until someone points out what's wrong with it!
That's why I run without those locknuts. You'll never catch me out with a faux pas like that. Nunh-unh.
thumpism is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 07:07 PM
  #12161  
PalmettoUpstate 
Verified Antique
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
I get that. I sort of figured that someone would point out what's "wrong" with this bike, since whomever this is didn't try to restore it exactly like it would be from 1951. But I'm okay with that, as to me, it's the spirit that counts and it looks good. It's a lot better than the 40's Schwinn Superior that was posted on Portland CL for a bit, where the owner put 700C wheels and a modern cotterless crankset on there. And my 1968 Raleigh Superbe has a bunch of new bits on it that wouldn't have been available back then, but still looks the part. To each their own.
Oh I don't mean any of that as a knock; just saying that this wouldn't be one I'd consider for the Bucket List.

Peace.
PalmettoUpstate is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 07:44 PM
  #12162  
PalmettoUpstate 
Verified Antique
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 480
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1899 Schwinn Quad - best of all - it's a 3-speed!

https://schwinncruisers.com/catalogs/...n_model_41.jpg
PalmettoUpstate is offline  
Old 12-14-16, 08:44 PM
  #12163  
SirMike1983 
On the road
 
SirMike1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 1,939

Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked 403 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
I'm wondering if that shipping weight is including all accessories and the shipping box/crate. The Paramount is chromoly, so the frame itself should theoretically be noticeably lighter than a similar Raleigh.
Yes, I believe it does include the shipping materials. The chromoly Continental I have is noticeably lighter than a Raleigh Sports. Just about everything is lighter, particularly the frame, fenders and wheelset. I would say the Paramount might be even a bit lighter than that. I was surprised how light the Continental was when I got it.



__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 12-15-16, 04:38 AM
  #12164  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 97 Times in 81 Posts
Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
Yes, I believe it does include the shipping materials. The chromoly Continental I have is noticeably lighter than a Raleigh Sports. Just about everything is lighter, particularly the frame, fenders and wheelset. I would say the Paramount might be even a bit lighter than that. I was surprised how light the Continental was when I got it.
Where do you find these great bikes? Oh well, a cro-mo Brit club bike was always on the top of my wish list and I haven't found one of those either. Good thing I'm on a roadster kick. Still some of them around.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Old 12-15-16, 01:11 PM
  #12165  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 40,270

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 499 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7065 Post(s)
Liked 1,911 Times in 1,156 Posts
@PalmettoUpstate, if you include other craigslist sites than your local one, you'll see them. I see plenty of nice 3-speeds for sale here, though they're not cheap. The high asking prices seem fair, though, especially if you'll be riding the bike and locking it up outside. It's a durable, theft-resistant bike.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 12-15-16, 01:35 PM
  #12166  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,509
Mentioned: 448 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3443 Post(s)
Liked 5,315 Times in 2,179 Posts
A buddy of mine has an early Paramount set up as a 3-speed. It's a very cool bike:

IMG_2777.JPG

IMG_2786.JPG

IMG_2787.JPG

Paramount.jpg
nlerner is offline  
Old 12-15-16, 07:16 PM
  #12167  
SirMike1983 
On the road
 
SirMike1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 1,939

Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked 403 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
Where do you find these great bikes? Oh well, a cro-mo Brit club bike was always on the top of my wish list and I haven't found one of those either. Good thing I'm on a roadster kick. Still some of them around.
I keep an eye out where old US balloon tire bikes turn up, both online and in-person. The US lightweights turn up more often where you have US ballooners from that era as well. I have seen a few on eBay, but not as many.

I think you are right that the Continental, Superior, and Paramount bikes of the 1930s- early 50s are more like an English Clubman level than a Sports. I think the New World sort of goes to the same level as the Sports.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 12-15-16, 08:51 PM
  #12168  
desconhecido 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,797
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 105 Posts
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
A buddy of mine has an early Paramount set up as a 3-speed. It's a very cool bike:


IMG_2787.JPG
That is a very cool bike with a very interesting headset arrangement. Do you know that headset all fits together? Looks like it's part of the lug -- must be something pressed into it, I'd guess.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 08:54 AM
  #12169  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,509
Mentioned: 448 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3443 Post(s)
Liked 5,315 Times in 2,179 Posts
I've seen those integrated headset cups on other bikes from that era, but I don't know how common it is. @rhm might know better than I.
nlerner is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 09:39 AM
  #12170  
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,817

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Mentioned: 568 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked 490 Times in 304 Posts
Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
That is a very cool bike with a very interesting headset arrangement. Do you know that headset all fits together? Looks like it's part of the lug -- must be something pressed into it, I'd guess.
Look at this photo on Velobase:



Don't be distracted by the fact that this Chater Lea headset uses a headclip rather than the usual threaded upper race. The three circles at the bottom of the photo are the frame races and the fork crown race. Each of the frame races fits snugly into a recess in the head lug, which is why the lug has that bulge. The races are not conical; the bearing surface is a circular channel that may be filled with oil, rather than grease. I suspect --I speculate-- that that is the feature that made these attractive to racers. At that time, some racers thought oiled bearings would spin faster than greased ones, which is why hubs, bottom brackets, and even headsets and pedals had oil ports.
__________________
www.rhmsaddles.com.

Last edited by rhm; 12-16-16 at 09:43 AM.
rhm is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 10:00 AM
  #12171  
thumpism
Senior Member
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 8,771

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2555 Post(s)
Liked 2,068 Times in 1,349 Posts
Anybody need a new-ish men's Sports in 23"? I think he's wrong about the year.

MENS 1972 RALEIGH LTD 3 BIKE

MENS 1972 RALEIGH LTD 3 BIKE - $159 (CHESTER)



NICE EXCELLENT SHAPE
thumpism is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 01:21 PM
  #12172  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,509
Mentioned: 448 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3443 Post(s)
Liked 5,315 Times in 2,179 Posts
So this isn't a Raleigh 3-speed as Frank Bowden might have intended, but I came across a somewhat rough 1973 Super Course a few weeks ago for small money and decided to build it up as an English club bike using parts I had on hand. The rear wheel is a 700c Matrix rim laced to a Sturmey Archer alloy AM hub with AW internals (yeah, kind of an odd story). Front is a matching rim laced to a Normany high-flange alloy hub with S-A wing nuts. Williams crankset, Challenge 30mm Eroica tires, top tube trigger modified from an S-A downtube shifter and an old clamp, Brooks B17 and SR/Raleigh post, GB bars and Titan stem, Weinmann levers and Weinmann 750 cp brakes, Honjo fenders. I've only had it out for a short test ride as we're in the midst of a cold snap, but it felt smooth.

1973_SC_Clubman1

1973_SC_Clubman3

1973_SC_Clubman4

1973_SC_Clubman5

1973_SC_Clubman6

1973_SC_Clubman7

1973_SC_Clubman10

1973_SC_Clubman9

Last edited by nlerner; 12-16-16 at 01:24 PM.
nlerner is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 01:28 PM
  #12173  
dweenk 
Senior Member
 
dweenk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,955

Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 318 Times in 216 Posts
Hercules, Not 3 Speed, But Nice

I think it is overpriced mainly due to the missing chaincase.
1929/1930 Hercules Popular single speed, perfect mechanical condition
__________________
I hope...that all mankind will at length…have reason and sense enough to settle their differences without cutting throats. Ben Franklin
dweenk is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 01:29 PM
  #12174  
dweenk 
Senior Member
 
dweenk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,955

Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 878 Post(s)
Liked 318 Times in 216 Posts
I forgot to mention the headlight.
__________________
I hope...that all mankind will at length…have reason and sense enough to settle their differences without cutting throats. Ben Franklin
dweenk is offline  
Old 12-16-16, 01:43 PM
  #12175  
arex
Abuse Magnet
 
arex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,836

Bikes: '91 Mtn Tek Vertical, '74 Raleigh Sports, '72 Raleigh Twenty, '84 Univega Gran Turismo, '09 Surly Karate Monkey, '92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, '86 Miyata 310, '76 Raleigh Shopper

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked 130 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
So this isn't a Raleigh 3-speed as Frank Bowden might have intended, but I came across a somewhat rough 1973 Super Course a few weeks ago for small money and decided to build it up as an English club bike using parts I had on hand. The rear wheel is a 700c Matrix rim laced to a Sturmey Archer alloy AM hub with AW internals (yeah, kind of an odd story). Front is a matching rim laced to a Normany high-flange alloy hub with S-A wing nuts. Williams crankset, Challenge 30mm Eroica tires, top tube trigger modified from an S-A downtube shifter and an old clamp, Brooks B17 and SR/Raleigh post, GB bars and Titan stem, Weinmann levers and Weinmann 750 cp brakes, Honjo fenders. I've only had it out for a short test ride as we're in the midst of a cold snap, but it felt smooth.

1973_SC_Clubman1
How many teeth are on the sprocket and chainring?
arex is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.