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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-24-17, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Welcome to the forum and the 3 speed hobby! You might want to try the stock gearing first to see how it appeals to you. It is very common among us 3 speeders to lower the stock gearing. With Raleigh bikes, Chainwheels changed from 48 tooth to 46 tooth in the early 70s. My personal preference is to use a 22T cog with a 48T chainwheel and a 20T with a 46T. I always use a new chain when I make this mod. KMC chains come with 112 links which is more than you need. You'll need a chain breaker to remove the extra links. Good luck and don't forget to post pics. We like pics.
It is tricky to use the on forum uploader. Somebody here will explain it to you when the time comes, although it's simple enough to insert pics from image hosting sites.
Thanks BigChief!. I will post pics when the forum will allow me (10 posts). How do I know if I have a 48T or a 46T without counting?
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Old 01-24-17, 10:06 PM
  #12427  
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Originally Posted by thumpism
You're following the wrong CL. They turn up frequently around here. This ad's been up for weeks with no takers.
That is a nice looking LTD 3. I have my wife's brother's bike from child hood. I was and still am trying to get it going. It will not shift properly and needs a new saddle. I will keep working on it, but it caused me to get a 1973 Raleigh Sports!
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Old 01-24-17, 10:16 PM
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I can finally post pictures!








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Old 01-24-17, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
22T is the largest stock Sturmey rear cog [...]
There are Sturmey Archer 24t 1/8" cogs out there. I have one, I bought it on Amazon for about $5, as I recall. It's flat, not dished.

There is an ad for one today for about $10 to $11.
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Old 01-24-17, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kmt
[...] How do I know if I have a 48T or a 46T without counting?
!


I think, as a general rule, if your chain ring has five segments and herons looking forward it's 48t and if it's three looking backwards it's 46t. But counting will settle the question.
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Old 01-24-17, 10:55 PM
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Old 01-24-17, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kmt
I can finally post pictures!








That's a seriously nice looking Sports. Judging from what I can see, looks like early 70s. Can't tell from the pics if it has those god-awful self-adjusting brake levers.

Current chain appears to be a little loose. Probably a 46t chain ring with 18 or 19t rear sprocket. If you want to go up any hills of consequence, consider a 22t rear sprocket which will probably require a new chain for length.

edit: yes, it appears to have the self-adjusters. That means 73 to 75, +/-
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Old 01-24-17, 11:03 PM
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Old 01-25-17, 04:23 AM
  #12434  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
I think, as a general rule, if your chain ring has five segments and herons looking forward it's 48t and if it's three looking backwards it's 46t. But counting will settle the question.
That's odd; mine has the three herons looking forward (when viewed from the right and with herons at the top of the circle) but I could swear I counted 48T on mine years ago. I'll have to recount.
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Old 01-25-17, 05:07 AM
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Vintage J.C. Higgins 3 Speed

Is this one British built?
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Old 01-25-17, 05:25 AM
  #12436  
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Originally Posted by kmt
I can finally post pictures!








What a beautiful Sports. They called this color burgundy. This, along with traditional black, are my favorite colors.
I have one and I chose the same gum wall tires. I think they look great with burgundy. That is a 46T chainwheel. Just my personal opinion, but a 22T cog would be a bit too low for me. I would use 19 or 20.
Here's my 69. It has the 48T chainwheel. You can see the difference just by the way it fits under the chain guard.
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Old 01-25-17, 07:49 AM
  #12437  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
That's a seriously nice looking Sports. Judging from what I can see, looks like early 70s. Can't tell from the pics if it has those god-awful self-adjusting brake levers.

Current chain appears to be a little loose. Probably a 46t chain ring with 18 or 19t rear sprocket. If you want to go up any hills of consequence, consider a 22t rear sprocket which will probably require a new chain for length.

edit: yes, it appears to have the self-adjusters. That means 73 to 75, +/-
Thank you. It is a '73 and I have adjusted the chain I think I will search for a 22T.
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Old 01-25-17, 07:52 AM
  #12438  
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Originally Posted by BigChief
What a beautiful Sports. They called this color burgundy. This, along with traditional black, are my favorite colors.
I have one and I chose the same gum wall tires. I think they look great with burgundy. That is a 46T chainwheel. Just my personal opinion, but a 22T cog would be a bit too low for me. I would use 19 or 20.
Thanks BigChief. I am proud of the bike. The pictures don't show the true color. It is coffee brown?
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Old 01-25-17, 08:39 AM
  #12439  
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Originally Posted by kmt
Thanks BigChief. I am proud of the bike. The pictures don't show the true color. It is coffee brown?
This pic was taken with my old phone that biased everything too magenta. I should have color corrected it. The coffee color is lighter in tone without any hint of purple. Digital photos on the internet can be tricky, but I'm almost positive that your bike is burgundy.
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Old 01-25-17, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Is this one British built?
The photos are blurry enough that I can't tell whether it has a one-piece crank or three-piece. If the latter, it is likely to be a Steyr-Daimler-Puch model from Austria.
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Old 01-25-17, 10:03 AM
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In Case You Missed This

Originally Posted by frameteam2003
What the video shows is how a Trivelox 3 speed works, The CHAIN stays in place and the GEARS move. This is a great display of what happens. The British were obsessive (IMHO) about chain angle and hated derailleurs (maybe because they were French??) so the trivelox was invented that managed to accommodate multiple gears and an always straight chain.

Thanks, frameteam2003!
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Old 01-25-17, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike from Iowa
What the video shows is how a Trivelox 3 speed works, The CHAIN stays in place and the GEARS move. This is a great display of what happens. The British were obsessive (IMHO) about chain angle and hated derailleurs (maybe because they were French??) so the trivelox was invented that managed to accommodate multiple gears and an always straight chain.

Thanks, frameteam2003!
Kinda disturbing, though, with the hounds of hell howling at his door!

That's a Trivelox Model A system. I have a Trivelox model B on my Fothergill, and it works quite nicely, shifting two gears on a Sturmey Archer hub (so, it's really a six speed). But the Model B has a moving derailleur cage like any modern derailleur.
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Old 01-25-17, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Is this one British built?
I can't tell anything from the photos, but J. C. Higgins was a Sears brand; they put that name on bikes from a variety of sources, in general the same bikes from the same sources as were later labeled Free Spirit. The three speed ones were made by Styria / Steyr in Austria. My guess is this is one of those.
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Old 01-25-17, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm
I can't tell anything from the photos, but J. C. Higgins was a Sears brand; they put that name on bikes from a variety of sources, in general the same bikes from the same sources as were later labeled Free Spirit. The three speed ones were made by Styria / Steyr in Austria. My guess is this is one of those.
I just bought a Sears Silvertone Guitar made by Harmony..1962 Silvertone 1446.
Not a vintage bike, but still cool.
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Old 01-25-17, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
I just bought a Sears Silvertone Guitar made by Harmony..1962 Silvertone 1446.
Not a vintage bike, but still cool.
Oooh, very nice! But you got the wrong thread. Post it here -- that thread needs bumped anyway
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Old 01-25-17, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
That's odd; mine has the three herons looking forward (when viewed from the right and with herons at the top of the circle) but I could swear I counted 48T on mine years ago. I'll have to recount.
Attachment 550155
I think I have the chronology of post war chainwheels figured out. Starting with full pattern and 48T. Then, sometime around 1971 or 72, they went to 46T and the herons lost their eyes, but still had the V brackets. Then from some point in later in 1973, they removed the V brackets. I think because there were no longer any eyes to guide them, some blanks were pressed backwards resulting in the herons facing the other direction by mistake.
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Old 01-25-17, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I think I have the chronology of post war chainwheels figured out. Starting with full pattern and 48T. Then, sometime around 1971 or 72, they went to 46T and the herons lost their eyes, but still had the V brackets. Then from some point in later in 1973, they removed the V brackets. I think because there were no longer any eyes to guide them, some blanks were pressed backwards resulting in the herons facing the other direction by mistake.
Okay, recount completed and it's a 46T chainwheel, three forward-facing herons, no eyeholes, no Vs, 74 6 hub date that is probably original to the bike.
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Old 01-25-17, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
That's odd; mine has the three herons looking forward (when viewed from the right and with herons at the top of the circle) but I could swear I counted 48T on mine years ago. I'll have to recount.
Attachment 550155
I didn't mean to make a definitive statement, only that when I've seen the CCW herons, they were 46t. According to Kurt Kaminer's Sports timeline, three segment (without "braces") chainwheels started in 72 and were turned CCW in 77. Somewhere in there they went from 48 to 46 teeth. Obviously, if you have a 46t, then they made them and I was wrong.
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Old 01-25-17, 05:51 PM
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No challenge intended, but I never paid much attentions to the setups before and did not realize the rings varied by a couple of teeth or that they had turned the birds, so to speak. In the past I only noticed the rings occasionally when ornate ones turned up but now have something else to bedevil me about these damn machines.
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Old 01-25-17, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I love these bikes. Mine came with the original top tube shifters, but I couldn't get along with them at all, so this is what I came up with. A standard trigger for the right and a SunTour ratchet up, friction down type handlebar shifter to operate the left side bell crank.
I think I have a friction shifter for this purpose, just never got around to installing. I forget if I have another shifter cable--that I might be missing. Bike came with no shifters, no cables, no idea why they were missing, still had brakes and everything else, so it was odd.
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