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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 03-28-17, 05:31 AM
  #12651  
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yeah......i might have to come up with a system. I have always used the brass washers on the spokes but on the front dynamo i dont know if they are needed. IF so, it will make it really hard to keep the spoke+washers in place.
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Old 03-28-17, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by IEthatsME
Here's my other English 3 speed. A 1970's Triumph. The only change I have made to it is the Triumph crank - how could I not! I'd like to fit a period rear rack to this bike - any recommendations?
If you can't find a Prestube rack on ebay (or a Midland) then a Pletscher is the way to go.
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Old 03-28-17, 01:34 PM
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Thanks Salubrious, I'll shop around.
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Old 03-28-17, 02:19 PM
  #12654  
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Originally Posted by IEthatsME
Thanks Salubrious, I'll shop around.
I've found that this works well with the black English 3-Speeds, and it's less than forty bucks:

(Built of lightweight alloy, not steel.)
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=55113


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Old 03-28-17, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Finally got the straps to the old original equipment saddlebag replaced. It's going on the 64 Sports I've been working on. This bike had a bent drive side crank arm, missing chainguard, incorrect trigger shifter, schwinn handlebar grips and missing lamp bracket but no rust problems. All that's left to do is clearcoat and polish the chain guard some and try for a better gloss match the the rest of the bike and find some original white grips.


Bag straps came out great.
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Old 03-28-17, 10:29 PM
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I picked up this Pletscher that looked to be in good shape and had the mounting bracket with it...
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Old 03-29-17, 05:58 PM
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As for my Triumph (a few posts up. #12647))does anyone know what that model would have been called?

Last edited by IEthatsME; 03-30-17 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 03-29-17, 07:14 PM
  #12658  
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[QUOTE=Sixty Fiver;10434431]
This was a well made and sturdy utility bicycle that was designed to last 100 years and they did not see many changes during their production life... latter models have alloy stems and brakes and the Superbe was always completely fitted out with generator lights and a locking fork which brought it's weight up to 42 pounds without a full chain case.





I just bought a Superbe. Looks to be new old stock, haven't had time to check out the year but I think its a DL22.
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Old 03-30-17, 04:15 PM
  #12659  
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Two rear cogs on craigslist now - nyc area

I'm not sure if I have the thing down for adding jpegs; here's the link:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/bik/6065126045.html
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Old 03-30-17, 06:31 PM
  #12660  
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Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
I'm not sure if I have the thing down for adding jpegs; here's the link:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/bik/6065126045.html
I tried crossing my Cannondale with an Aberration. I wanted a Cannondation but all I got was an...
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Old 03-30-17, 06:48 PM
  #12661  
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Originally Posted by scale
Ah so i am not crazy. Good.

SO the right way on a rebuild is either over over under for 3x or over over over under for 4x i assume? This is my second wheelset for these old 3 speeds and i have another set im going to do after this. They are fun to build and quite cheap as far as learning goes.
We're all a little crazy.

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Old 03-31-17, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dweenk
I've been working on my step-thru Sprite this beautiful day. The 3 speed side of the S5 hub worked like a champ with the trigger shifter on the bar (an add-on). The left side of the hub was not reliable at all. It was connected to the original downtube shifter that was plastic and sloppy and I feared it would break (the 3 speed side was already broken).


So I pulled a newer trigger shifter from my stash and installed on the left side of the bars. That required a new cable and housing. I set it up, adjusted the cable, and took it for a ride - everything worked. Now I only need to clean and lube it.
The top tube shifters didn't work for me either. Besides, us 3 speeders had indexed shifting from the handlebars since 1938 and they seemed to be a step backwards to me.
I had a pro make the straps for me. He repairs and makes custom leather tack for equestrians. It did require some explanation as to why I would want to repair such a piece of junk. These used to be so common. It seems the vast majority of them broke and were thrown away over the years.
How do you like the Sprite? I'm in love with the S5 hub.
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Old 03-31-17, 09:43 AM
  #12663  
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Originally Posted by BigChief
The top tube shifters didn't work for me either. Besides, us 3 speeders had indexed shifting from the handlebars since 1938 and they seemed to be a step backwards to me.
I had a pro make the straps for me. He repairs and makes custom leather tack for equestrians. It did require some explanation as to why I would want to repair such a piece of junk. These used to be so common. It seems the vast majority of them broke and were thrown away over the years.
How do you like the Sprite? I'm in love with the S5 hub.
I like the Sprite; or specifically, I like the S5 hub. I'm thinking about mounting a shifter on the left side of a nearly pristine Sports (large men's frame) that I have so I can swap the rear wheel back and forth.

I have a lead on a crappy Sprite from the friend of a friend. It has been sitting outside for years, but if it is the S5 version, it may be worth checking out.
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Old 03-31-17, 12:13 PM
  #12664  
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Just got this question in from someone. All I have ever heard are stories regarding destroying AW hubs if one put too big of a rear cog on, but this other gentleman was wondering about specific technical info. Anyone have more insight?

"Question about larger cogs on an SA-AW 3-speed. I've heard rumor about cogs larger than 23 teeth cause of damage to the innards... but I've never seen any technical literature that supports this. Where do you come by this? Is it Sheldons opinion or are there others that have experienced it?? Just wondering. "
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Old 03-31-17, 12:47 PM
  #12665  
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I don't know from personal experience - I've put a 22 tooth cog on the rear, as have a few other members of the forum as i recall. Can you provide details?
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Old 03-31-17, 01:11 PM
  #12666  
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Its possible to overload the hub with larger cogs. A lot depends on the rider though! I certainly would not set up a tandem that way.
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Old 04-01-17, 04:17 AM
  #12667  
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I while back on this thread I saw pictures of a damaged driver and cog. The splines were all chewed up. Pretty sure this was a 3/32" 23T cog. I suspect that this was caused more by the use of a thinner 3/32" cog than the lower value of the gearing. With the older 48T chainwheels, I have been using those 22T 1/8" chromed Sturmey Archer coaster brake cogs for years and many miles without any spline damage. Just a guess, but I'll say stick to 1/8" cogs and you should be fine.
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Old 04-01-17, 06:25 AM
  #12668  
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Originally Posted by scale
My next wheelset will be the crazy weird dynamo hub on the front. I have heard those are hard since they dont have eyelets on the hub.....just little slots that hold the spokes by tension.

im not looking forward to that one.
Yes, they are tricky. You can avoid a lot of headache by being extra careful, though.

For example, be absolutely certain you don't confuse the right side spokes with the left side ones. They will be different lengths, but only by a little, and it's easy to get confused.

Build the dynamo side first, both leading and trailing spokes, but (obviously) don't tension them yet. Then build the small flange one hole at a time; that is, do the leading spoke from a given eye-shaped hole, and then do the trailing one. If you try to do all eight leading spokes first, and then all eight trailing spokes, you'll have spoke heads dropping out of the hub while you're not looking.

It's kinda fun, really, you just have to use a different method than usual.
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Old 04-01-17, 06:31 AM
  #12669  
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Originally Posted by dweenk
I like the Sprite; or specifically, I like the S5 hub. I'm thinking about mounting a shifter on the left side of a nearly pristine Sports (large men's frame) that I have so I can swap the rear wheel back and forth.

I have a lead on a crappy Sprite from the friend of a friend. It has been sitting outside for years, but if it is the S5 version, it may be worth checking out.
I like original bikes as much as anybody but...If I found a good buy on a S5 equipped wreck or stepthrough, I wouldn't think twice about swapping wheels or hub guts into a good Sports. The whole reason I gear down AW hubs is that I find that a hub with a normal cruising gear, a medium underdrive and an overdrive that I never use is nowhere near as useful as one with a cruising gear, medium under drive and granny. The S5 gives you 3 well spaced, very useful gears and a granny if you engage the bell crank. Last year I had a chance to ride my Sprite in hilly country and I found it handy to ride with the bell crank engaged. I would leave the hub in 2nd, get as far up the hill as I could and snick the right shifter into the granny 1st and crest the hill. But most of the time, I'm totally happy with the medium ratio spread of the unengaged bell crank. I found no reason the change the original 18T cog. I think it's perfect. Foe me at least.
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Old 04-01-17, 06:34 AM
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So, three-speed hub fans, here's a question for you!

What would you do with a 1958 SW hub?

I just happen to have one. No indicator chain, though. I opened it up, just to see what the fuss is about, and it kinda blew my mind, such a different mechanism, I almost wanted to see how it works. But i got over that. I have enough trouble keeping my AW-FW-5S hubs happy, and they all have interchangeable parts. The SW appears to have the same axle nuts and the same cones, but beyond that, all different.

So, anyway, what would you do with a SW hub?
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Old 04-01-17, 06:42 AM
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^ The last one I had I sent to a BFer for the cost of shipping.
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Old 04-01-17, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm
So, three-speed hub fans, here's a question for you!

What would you do with a 1958 SW hub?

I just happen to have one. No indicator chain, though. I opened it up, just to see what the fuss is about, and it kinda blew my mind, such a different mechanism, I almost wanted to see how it works. But i got over that. I have enough trouble keeping my AW-FW-5S hubs happy, and they all have interchangeable parts. The SW appears to have the same axle nuts and the same cones, but beyond that, all different.

So, anyway, what would you do with a SW hub?
Oh, Oh! Please send it to me so I can take it apart. This just made my heart skip a beat. I've only worked on the AW's & some with dynohub. I promise I would be very nice to it. Ultrasonically bathe it, lube with Phil Wood Tenacious Oil, and thoughtfully reassemble and mail it back to you in a bow.
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Old 04-01-17, 08:41 AM
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I have a question or two. Last spring I bought an all original, green Raleigh Twenty with the front G6 dynohub. The chrome is very good, etc.. It was a mess, cosmetically thought from a grunge factor.
So I dove in, took it apart, spent hours & days cleaning, polishing, waxing, removing rust. Replaced cables/housings/pads, new tires, repacked all bearings, trued wheels....you know the deal. All I had to do was reinstall the rear fender & Plescher rack and I'd be done. By that time I was on R20 overload, and just set it aside. It's been months....fenders are finicky and I don't enjoy installing them.

How do I get my mojo back for this project? I've worked on other projects since then, but this little gem just sits there...

Separate question: the anti rotation washers on the bike are worn down & I can easily get some from the co-op. How important is it that these washers are robust? Specifically, the raised section that keeps the axle from rotation has smoothed down along their edges as well as thinned down.
Thanks
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Old 04-01-17, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm
I just happen to have one. No indicator chain, though. I opened it up, just to see what the fuss is about, and it kinda blew my mind, such a different mechanism, I almost wanted to see how it works. But i got over that. I have enough trouble keeping my AW-FW-5S hubs happy, and they all have interchangeable parts. The SW appears to have the same axle nuts and the same cones, but beyond that, all different.

So, anyway, what would you do with a SW hub?
Build it into a wheel and "rig for silent running."

I have several of these hubs, only one of which is built into a wheel. My intent was to use it on the ABCE downhill "pastry joust" in conjunction with an oil-lubricated 1948 Dynohub to see if I could be the first Dynohub-equipped bike to win the joust. But a shoulder injury prevented me from attending that year, and schedule conflicts in subsequent years has meant it's been several years since I managed to get to the ABCE event.

That said, an SW hub can work well most of the time. It has slightly wider range than the AW (lower low, and higher high), and is pretty much dead-silent in operation. They have fewer parts than the AW hubs and the lack of fiddly pawl springs makes them super-easy to overhaul. The biggest problems I've encountered are temperature related: whan it gets colder than about 40F the springless pawls often fail to engage quickly, meaning you might pedal one or more full revolutions before the pawls finally catch and engage the drive train. But in hot summer weather they can be just dandy.

You mention you are missing the indicator chain. These come in two versions, one of which is compatible with the AW indicator rod, and another which uses a two-piece indicator rod. I have a number of extra two-piece rods here if that's what you need. Let me know, and we can work something out.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 04-01-17 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 04-01-17, 01:37 PM
  #12675  
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Issues with cogs too large:
-yes, they cause increased strain on the hub, but it also depends on if you're putting down a lot of force and thrashing/standing on it. If you develop a smooth pattern of pedaling and putting load into the hub, it is generally fine.

-I have seen two different cogs tear the splined driver. Both were 3/32 and both were 24 tooth or larger. My guess is that there was excessive play in the fit of the cog splines to the driver. That play probably wore the cog splines down a bit, then they tore under load. A 1/8 might be safer by having more meat on the cog. The most important factor is a good fit of cog spline to driver without excessive play. It should drop onto the driver smoothly and easily, but not be excessively loose in terms of turning or twisting once the spacers and clip are back on the driver.

-SW hubs: I don't run them. I've had a couple and dumped both off the bikes. You can indeed build a very nice, reliable SW hub if you take the best parts you can find from several hubs or a parts bin, and hand fit everything together. Then you get to test it, and you'll want to test it under load. Slipping pawls are a good way to bust up your legs if you're pressing up a hill. The AW is plentiful and reliable enough so that I opt for those over the SW. The SW is something to tinker with, but I just opt for the AW/FW.

-S5 shifters: the early (plastic) S5 shifters are not good. They love to break off or just not work very well. The larger "muscle car" type shifters are a bit better, but they take getting used to. It's not as "automatic" to drop into gear as the 3-speed shifter. The most ergonomic fix is a nice friction shifter fitted to the bell crank (you only need loose vs tight on that) and a standard 3-speed shifter on the handle bars for the indicator chain/clutch side. If I had to build a shifter for the S5 today, I'd probably opt for a dual stick top-tube design but with peg holes and "indexing" on the drive side like a quadrant. That way you get the top-tube look and function, but with more "automatic" dropping into gear than the friction-style the Sprite came with.
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