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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 08-12-17, 11:17 AM
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Sort of like James Dean.....only in a bike. I get it.
So unlikely that a step through could be a scorcher. If I were alive then, I'd likely be a scorcher. A tomboy, bucking society's norms.
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Old 08-12-17, 11:29 AM
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When I restored the John Deere I had the frame and pan sand blasted at a cemetery monument shop. Great on steel frames not good on sheet metal. There's much talk about glass bead blasting as easier on the metal. When I restored the 56 outboard I stripped every part by hand, long tedious process, bike frame and fenders would be easier. Both paint jobs where from rattle cans. In both cases the rattle cans were job specific; I mean that the John Deere spray can and the Gale outboard can were designed not to sputter at the end. Rustoleum and Krylon spit as the paint runs out. It wasn't necessarily any skill of mine that helped the paint job look nice. When I first posted on this site I asked about Raleigh paint. I'm still asking, I could pick from anyone of a dozen black paints. What is the correct Raleigh Black?

The stripping doesn't bother me. Part of the process. I would have to research the paint and primers and try to build confidence in my skills as a painter.
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Old 08-12-17, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by plympton
I'm still asking, I could pick from anyone of a dozen black paints. What is the correct Raleigh Black?
I'd say there's no way to determine it with any accuracy. Here's the charts though. Of course they are scans of faded paper brochures. Notice there's no colour code for black.

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Old 08-12-17, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
Sort of like James Dean.....only in a bike. I get it.
So unlikely that a step through could be a scorcher. If I were alive then, I'd likely be a scorcher. A tomboy, bucking society's norms.
Don't give up! In this anything-goes modern age your scorcher could be anything you want it to be, even a stepthrough. Post a pic when it's done.
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Old 08-12-17, 04:49 PM
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Quick question some of you could answer. I think this is a '73, but none of the 70's catalogs show the specs for this model. Does it have steel or alu rims? Any idea about the total weight?







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Old 08-12-17, 05:11 PM
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Looks like my '74. Bike looks identical to mine except you have a pump peg. Steel rims. I'll have to get out the scale and let you know. Mine also has a Pletscher but no seat bag and a different saddle so weights might vary. Your rear fender has been cropped.

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Old 08-12-17, 06:40 PM
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73 or 74. I'm leaning toward 73 because it has the older style chainwheel with the V brackets. I think I'm seeing two different rims. This bike came with Raleigh pattern rims. Looks like the rear is original and the front is an Endrick replacement.
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Old 08-12-17, 07:00 PM
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I figure it's a '73 because the '74 has no pump peg. And a matching ladies model is also for sale with it, coffee color, and that color was a '73 option but not in '74. I don't know, the seller is asking $200 for the gents. I like it, but if it weighs 50lbs or something then I'll pass.
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Old 08-12-17, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
I don't know, the seller is asking $200 for the gents. I like it, but if it weighs 50lbs or something then I'll pass.
Close to top dollar for a 70's model imo but I don't know your market. The B-72 saddle looks to be in great shape, I love that model. Watch those self adjusting brake levers. Yes, they auto-tighten the cable slack faster than required.

Probably ~35 lbs. They all weigh that much, part of the charm.
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Old 08-12-17, 08:00 PM
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@thumpism - I had a 19" Raleigh Sport step through that fit me great. However it was silver with sky blue head tube. I don't like neutrals. I would love to have a 19" green step through with thimbles on fork, or maybe coffee or possibly black. Green is my favorite color. I live in western Oregon with trees everywhere. What can I say?

Question: was there a period of years when SA AW 3-speed hub was built better than other years? Or a range of years? So if I was looking for a used one, is there a time frame when they were made exceptionally well? Or poorly? Seems like I've read that after mid '70's the quality declines.
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Old 08-12-17, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@thumpism - I had a 19" Raleigh Sport step through that fit me great. However it was silver with sky blue head tube. I don't like neutrals. I would love to have a 19" green step through with thimbles on fork, or maybe coffee or possibly black. Green is my favorite color. I live in western Oregon with trees everywhere. What can I say?

Question: was there a period of years when SA AW 3-speed hub was built better than other years? Or a range of years? So if I was looking for a used one, is there a time frame when they were made exceptionally well? Or poorly? Seems like I've read that after mid '70's the quality declines.
Sorry, all we have in 19" stepthrough with thimbles is in blue. My coffee 23M is currently on duty and the green 23L is waiting in the wings for my less agile days yet to come.

I don't have vast exposure to SA stuff in heavy use, but in my experience would advise you to grab any one that meets your needs and worry about problems if/when they arise. If I found one that worked I'd expect it to keep working.
Three squared speeds.JPG
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Old 08-12-17, 09:21 PM
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@thumpism - that sure is a pretty shade of blue. I've never seen that shade before.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:57 AM
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I have found that some hubs shift more smoothly and run more quietly than others and more attention was paid to details and quality in the 50s and early 60 than later. But for example, the hub on my 73 roadster is just as good as any one I've ever had. So it's hard to say. This is only a guess, but I think you would be less likely to find a problem hub like I did on my 70 roadster if you picked an older hub. I think I found the issue with the sticky down shifting. At least it shifts reliably now, but it's still noisy. I've had it apart 3 times now and can't figure it out. Something's out of spec somewhere so I write it down to just not being a very good hub.
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Old 08-13-17, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I have found that some hubs shift more smoothly and run more quietly than others and more attention was paid to details and quality in the 50s and early 60 than later. But for example, the hub on my 73 roadster is just as good as any one I've ever had. So it's hard to say. This is only a guess, but I think you would be less likely to find a problem hub like I did on my 70 roadster if you picked an older hub. I think I found the issue with the sticky down shifting. At least it shifts reliably now, but it's still noisy. I've had it apart 3 times now and can't figure it out. Something's out of spec somewhere so I write it down to just not being a very good hub.
When I first got my 49 Humber, after a gentle cleanup the only real problem I had was a tendency for it to skip in 1st (L) gear. I had that hub apart numerous times, and replaced most of the small components related to first gear (pawls, springs, clutch etc). It continued to skip at the most inopportune times (climbing hard on low); I was beginning to thing the pawl ring in the hub body itself was worn. Finally I took the entire innards of a NOS hub from 1974 (supposedly in the declining years of SA) and slid them into the 49 shell. Problem solved immediately...

@Velocivixen: surprised you had to rebuild your wheel - did the new innards for your 2-speed not fit in the shell already laced?
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Old 08-13-17, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@thumpism - that sure is a pretty shade of blue. I've never seen that shade before.
You should look up the stock color, a deep royal blue. This one is badly oxidized and looks almost violet and rubbing compound might bring it back but I don't lavish my bikes with that kind of treatment. I found this one twenty years ago for a friend who said she wanted a bike to ride in the neighborhood and this one turned up at a yard sale in absolutely beautiful original condition. Showroom. How it looks now is the result of being ignored for two decades in her back yard. I won't be so diligent next request.
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Old 08-13-17, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by markk900
When I first got my 49 Humber, after a gentle cleanup the only real problem I had was a tendency for it to skip in 1st (L) gear. I had that hub apart numerous times, and replaced most of the small components related to first gear (pawls, springs, clutch etc). It continued to skip at the most inopportune times (climbing hard on low); I was beginning to thing the pawl ring in the hub body itself was worn. Finally I took the entire innards of a NOS hub from 1974 (supposedly in the declining years of SA) and slid them into the 49 shell. Problem solved immediately...

@Velocivixen: surprised you had to rebuild your wheel - did the new innards for your 2-speed not fit in the shell already laced?
It is true that the hub in my 73 DL-1 is perfect. I replaced all the bearings and cleaned things up. Thing ticks like a clock. Smooth as silk. On the other hand, the 70-72 hub (no date stamp) has some issues. The driver was machined with very dull tools. Looks like somebody chiseled it out of stone. Very coarse with chipped edges. No effort was made to deburr the clutch plate or the slot in the axle for the indicator key. After I softened these edges, the hub would down shift. The indicator was jammed tight when I first got the bike. These parts should have never made it into a finished hub. Also, as the wheel spins, you can hear pressure through the gears change as it rotates. A sort of runch, runch sound that my other hubs don't make. The components aren't being held squarely. I suspect the hub shell isn't exactly true. Combining my experience with this hub with the obvious cost cutting of the external parts of the system is what makes me guess that the older hubs may be of more consistent quality. Still, I admit, it's only a guess.
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Old 08-13-17, 10:51 AM
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@markk900 - Universal Cycles, where I bought the hub, had never dealt with warranty issues with Sturmey Archer before. They presumed that SA would replace the entire hub - thus telling me that, in order to commence the warranty claim I'd have to unlaced the wheel & bring the hub to them.
As you can imagine, when they said that SA would send new internals I was piss@d. Building a 406 20" wheel is tricky because the tensionometer does not fit. I had to use sound to assess tensions. I am an exacting wheel builder & rely on my tools. I don't like having wheels where I really don't know the tensions....
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Old 08-13-17, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
This is my idea of a Scorcher and bike, from 1896, although he is an NY messenger.

What a great picture. Look at that kid. He's not just handsome, he's tough. And there is a lot of resemblance between him and today's NYC messenger. Bike messengers didn't come back in style recently. They've been in style here for over a century. I love to ride my bike, but I would never want to take that job.
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Old 08-13-17, 02:13 PM
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The quality did decline, and they stopped using cyanide hardening at some point. If you have a choice, get an older hub, but don't be afraid of a later hub. Deal with problems when and if they arise. You may not have any.

That dark blue color came out in the mid or late 70s, and it's awfully nice. I'm pretty sure it came on only the ladies' bikes. Blue was for girls, and red was for boys.
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Old 08-14-17, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Very, very sharp. Love it! I'll always have a soft spot for scorchers. Nice job on this one.
I second that! Very attractive bike.
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Old 08-14-17, 05:57 AM
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Iverson 3 Speed

I picked this up a few days ago as a gift/payment for a young lady that looks after the pets when we're away. I offered cash or a bike. She chose a bike. It's not British but....
p1190189.jpg
This is a made in Japan Iverson 3 speed with a Sturmey Archer hub and shifter. Hub is dated 3/72. Research tells me that Iverson is not a well respected brand but I think those remarks refer to their 10 speeds. The paint and decals are in good shape. This one will get the usual rebuild with some new tires/pads and cables. I'm sure it will be a good commuter.

p1190196.jpg

p1190192.jpg

p1190191.jpg

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Old 08-14-17, 06:12 AM
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Totally Off Topic But....

This weekend I had the opportunity to visit a small hydro-electric power station in the Ottawa Valley.
This station was built in 1907 and is still running the original Westinghouse generators built in 1905!
These were designed by the great Nikola Tesla. I'd like to see something built today that will work continuously for 100+ years!
P1190169.JPG

P1190170.jpg

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Old 08-14-17, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
This weekend I had the opportunity to visit a small hydro-electric power station in the Ottawa Valley.
This station was built in 1907 and is still running the original Westinghouse generators built in 1905!
These were designed by the great Nicola Tesla. I'd like to see something built today that will work continuously for 100+ years!
Attachment 576097

Attachment 576098
Did Tesla ever train his interest toward bicycles?
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Old 08-14-17, 07:09 AM
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Iverson was a grand old name American bicycles, dating practically from the dawn of the age. Later ones were "badge engineered" like the cheapo 10-speeds you mentioned and this imported 3-speed. One of the experts here could probably tell you more.
Originally Posted by gster
I picked this up a few days ago as a gift/payment for a young lady that looks after the pets when we're away. I offered cash or a bike. She chose a bike. It's not British but....
Attachment 576093
This is a made in Japan Iverson 3 speed with a Sturmey Archer hub and shifter. Hub is dated 3/72. Research tells me that Iverson is not a well respected brand but I think tose remarks refer to their 10 speeds. The paint and decals are in good shape. This one will get the usual rebuild with some new tires/pads and cables. I'm sure it will be a good commuter.
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Old 08-14-17, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@thumpism - I had a 19" Raleigh Sport step through that fit me great. However it was silver with sky blue head tube. I don't like neutrals. I would love to have a 19" green step through with thimbles on fork, or maybe coffee or possibly black. Green is my favorite color. I live in western Oregon with trees everywhere. What can I say?
I don't care for the silver gray much myself, but, have you ever seen the dark gray color of the mid 70s? I've seen a couple of step throughs with this color and thought they looked super classy. It would be hard for me to pass up a tall gents frame in that charcoal gray.
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