Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 08-27-17, 08:50 PM
  #13576  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,399

Bikes: A few

Liked 1,170 Times in 668 Posts
All good stuff [MENTION=398265]BigChief[/MENTION]

I will wander back into the LBS and look through the scrap metal piles he has. Might find a small bit that fits snug in the case. The owner used to build frames and did a lot of repairs. Kind of guy that made his own tools when he didn't have one for the job.

Rubber hammer, got one. Clean up went well. The OA used was low grade called barkeeps friend. Watched it close and treated it when the work was done. Turned out good!
3speedslow is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 10:05 AM
  #13577  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,777

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Liked 2,723 Times in 1,579 Posts
Originally Posted by arty dave
Any suggestions on how to clean surface rust from around the inner hub flanges and inside 'corners' of a hub shell? The spokes are making it tricky to get anything in there. I might have to de-lace the wheel? It's been laced with stainless spokes that are in good condition.
Go to the plumbing section of your hardware store and pick up some brushes with brass bristles. They won't scratch steel.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 11:20 AM
  #13578  
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,606

Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB

Liked 281 Times in 126 Posts
Originally Posted by SirMike1983
After WWII it also took awhile for continental (tighter) geometry to reach British road bikes.
Funny- some of that stuff is coming back- relaxed geometry is showing up in mountain bikes now.

Salubrious is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 03:05 PM
  #13579  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,923

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Liked 3,533 Times in 2,001 Posts
Originally Posted by SirMike1983
The British cycle industry was one of the most conservative for a long time. Even for a time after WWII, there was a fairly widely-held view in Britain that steel components (including rims) were superior to aluminum ones.
I think at least some of it was that the British steel industry was a matter of serious national pride, and by marketing their "All Steel Bicycles" Raleigh tapped into that sentiment.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 05:24 PM
  #13580  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,869

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Liked 2,070 Times in 1,262 Posts
Originally Posted by Salubrious
Funny- some of that stuff is coming back- relaxed geometry is showing up in mountain bikes now.
I'm buying what he's selling. Best truss fork ever!
clubman is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 07:39 PM
  #13581  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,399

Bikes: A few

Liked 1,170 Times in 668 Posts
No chance today to put the shifter together. Probably happen tomorrow. We have a nice tropical storm walking over us then.

Ahhh, got ahead of myself. Still need to work the case back to shape

Here is everything all cleaned up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_1666.jpg (90.9 KB, 152 views)
3speedslow is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 09:06 PM
  #13582  
On the road
 
SirMike1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs

Liked 1,003 Times in 376 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
I think at least some of it was that the British steel industry was a matter of serious national pride, and by marketing their "All Steel Bicycles" Raleigh tapped into that sentiment.
That's quite true, and there was a bit of truth to the claim initially. Steel parts were tested and proved, but there were some production and durability issues with some of the earlier aluminum parts. Steel also had a more user-friendly failure mode than aluminum.

Some of the premium steel and "stainless" steel Raleigh parts from the 1940s-50s are really beautifully finished.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 09:19 PM
  #13583  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
No chance today to put the shifter together. Probably happen tomorrow. We have a nice tropical storm walking over us then.

Ahhh, got ahead of myself. Still need to work the case back to shape

Here is everything all cleaned up.
Looking good!
BigChief is offline  
Old 08-28-17, 11:17 PM
  #13584  
Senior Member
 
campngolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 193

Bikes: 70's Raleigh Sports, '12 Specialized Secteur

Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
No chance today to put the shifter together. Probably happen tomorrow. We have a nice tropical storm walking over us then.

Ahhh, got ahead of myself. Still need to work the case back to shape

Here is everything all cleaned up.
Thanks for all the details. All the help here gives me the encouragement I need to overhaul my twitchy shifter. I figure if I booger it up real bad, ya'll will talk me back from the edge.

Camp
campngolf is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 08:00 AM
  #13585  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
0731170944-00 (2).jpgI'll be taking my bike home tomorrow. Probably start the restoration in two or three weeks so I'm trying to narrow down the year. Ser. # 69722. With everyone here's help I have it between 1950 and 1954. The oiler, the brazed guide the front drop is pressed not brazed and a couple of other features can be seen behind the late sixties repaint. I can not see a date on the single speed hub. As I search images and learn a little bit more I'm wondering if there are Raleighs of this vintage that are dated wrong, ie; if the hub says 55 it must be a 55, why do you believe that. I'm old enough to have owned this bike, at ten years old I would definitely change the hub if something went wrong. Question: are there any other subtle things that I should look for to narrow down the year.
plympton is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 08:23 AM
  #13586  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Raleighs were not produced in model year series. Changes occurred over time and we do have an accurate chronology of their order, but not specific dates. As you know, Raleigh serial numbers aren't an accurate resource for dating manufacture, so we are left with factory catalogs, ads, old photos and personal recollections. Luckily, Sturmey Archer usually stamped dates of manufacture on their IG hub shells. We 3 speeders use the hub dates as a general reference to date our bikes with the understanding that they aren't entirely accurate and it is possible that the hub may not be original to the frame. Although they usually are and if there is a wide difference of the hub date and frame features, the replaced hub is obvious. Still, hub dates are close enough that we have an idea of the age and style bike we are talking about.
edit: We can also tell if a wheel was built by Raleigh because they used a 3x over, over, over pattern that nobody else is likely to use. Most anybody that builds up a wheel will use a 3x over, over under pattern.

Last edited by BigChief; 08-29-17 at 08:48 AM.
BigChief is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 09:43 AM
  #13587  
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 7,837

Bikes: Miyata 618 GT, Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, Santa Cruz Highball

Liked 2,862 Times in 1,311 Posts
Looking for some love... https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik...259056020.html
curbtender is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 09:56 AM
  #13588  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,399

Bikes: A few

Liked 1,170 Times in 668 Posts
Neat, an old Rudge. Probably has the hand crankset hiding behind the case.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 10:10 AM
  #13589  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
Neat, an old Rudge. Probably has the hand crankset hiding behind the case.
Yeah, it's a good thing I'm on the other side of the country. I'd be out 120 bucks. Hard to resist that one even with a 21" frame.
BigChief is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 10:53 AM
  #13590  
On the road
 
SirMike1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs

Liked 1,003 Times in 376 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
Yeah, it's a good thing I'm on the other side of the country. I'd be out 120 bucks. Hard to resist that one even with a 21" frame.
Yeah - I was interested since it would fit me, but my contact out there recently moved away from there.
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 01:26 PM
  #13591  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
Raleighs were not produced in model year series. Changes occurred over time and we do have an accurate chronology of their order, but not specific dates. As you know, Raleigh serial numbers aren't an accurate resource for dating manufacture, so we are left with factory catalogs, ads, old photos and personal recollections. Luckily, Sturmey Archer usually stamped dates of manufacture on their IG hub shells. We 3 speeders use the hub dates as a general reference to date our bikes with the understanding that they aren't entirely accurate and it is possible that the hub may not be original to the frame. Although they usually are and if there is a wide difference of the hub date and frame features, the replaced hub is obvious. Still, hub dates are close enough that we have an idea of the age and style bike we are talking about.
edit: We can also tell if a wheel was built by Raleigh because they used a 3x over, over, over pattern that nobody else is likely to use. Most anybody that builds up a wheel will use a 3x over, over under pattern.
Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.
plympton is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 01:55 PM
  #13592  
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,606

Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB

Liked 281 Times in 126 Posts
Raleigh used what they had on hand like many similar companies. The pedals did not change for many years. So anything from the 30s into the 60s will be the right part. If its got reflectors embedded that's a later pedal. The older pedals can be rebuilt and have very good bearings.

Brake pads vary depending on cable or rod brake of course but the same idea applies. You'll probably want Kool Stops anyway as they work a bit better

Headbadges are period specific and as far as I can make out, its all about where the rivet is in the heron's head...
Salubrious is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 02:50 PM
  #13593  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,399

Bikes: A few

Liked 1,170 Times in 668 Posts
Stuck at home while the tropical storm passes us so I went with what I had on hand to straighten the case. It involved a rubber hammer with thin pieces of hardwood built up inside and use of needle nose players to work the severe dip on the edge.

End result

Edit: when I was test fitting the handle and stop plate I came to the realization that there was still a dip in the plate which rubbed the trigger hard so I am still in fix mode. I think this photo will show the indent. It looks like someone took a hammer and screwdriver to the outside of the case to try and pound it down. Notice the marks on the letter M in Sturmey.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_1667.jpg (94.6 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg
IMG_1657.jpg (94.5 KB, 136 views)

Last edited by 3speedslow; 08-29-17 at 03:45 PM.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 02:58 PM
  #13594  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,869

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Liked 2,070 Times in 1,262 Posts
Originally Posted by plympton
Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.
You'd like to know but can't know for sure. The frame may have sat un-built until '55. Component changes were glacial but the Sturmey shifters as well as hubs, are the most reliable indicators. Use this page for shifter identification. If it were mine, I'd call it a 55 and be done with it.
clubman is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 02:58 PM
  #13595  
Senior Member
 
dweenk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,808

Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups

Liked 337 Times in 226 Posts
[MENTION=207730]3speedslow[/MENTION]

I think you did well. Looks good.
dweenk is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 03:22 PM
  #13596  
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,777

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Liked 2,723 Times in 1,579 Posts
Clever work, [MENTION=207730]3speedslow[/MENTION]!
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 03:57 PM
  #13597  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
[MENTION=207730]3speedslow[/MENTION] That case looks pretty square to me. Good job! There's the other shifter you mentioned with the broken spring. Do you have a replacement? I know a few of us here bought some from funthingsfound on ebay. Can't remember if you were one of them.
BigChief is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 04:10 PM
  #13598  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,399

Bikes: A few

Liked 1,170 Times in 668 Posts
Thanks all!

I actually like this type of fiddle work. Ultimately I will be more satisfied when I mount it to the handle bar and cable it up to the hub.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 04:22 PM
  #13599  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 240

Bikes: 30's Speedwell Club Racer, 40's Speedwell 'Z' racer, 50's Unknown Aussie with nice lugs, 50's Speedwell Roadster, 50's Repco Roadster, '63 Raleigh DL-1, 70's Raleigh Sprite, Puch Promenade with Nexus 8

Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
3speedslow what's the brass thing in your 1st image?
arty dave is offline  
Old 08-29-17, 04:42 PM
  #13600  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,399

Bikes: A few

Liked 1,170 Times in 668 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
[MENTION=207730]3speedslow[/MENTION] That case looks pretty square to me. Good job! There's the other shifter you mentioned with the broken spring. Do you have a replacement? I know a few of us here bought some from funthingsfound on ebay. Can't remember if you were one of them.
No, I was not one of buyers. I was not aware of them. This shifter takes the band steel spring. Easy to get the bent wire spring but can't use that. I was hoping to find spare springs somewhere. I was down in Wilmington yesterday and went to the Two wheeler dealer LBS. he let me look through the dusty top shelf box of SA parts but got nothing I needed.

It's worth it to find a spring for my second shifter. It's from the same time period as the other one.
3speedslow is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.