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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 09-14-17, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm
Anyone who understands 4 and 5 speed hubs, want to comment on this drawing?

Larger version here. It is beautiful, obviously, but there's something I'm not understanding.
What's the question?
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Old 09-14-17, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
What's the question?
The question is, does this make sense to you? Forgive me for being cagey, I don't want to draw your attention to anything in particular, but I will say, this drawing does not make sense to me. If you know what the inside of a hub looks like, look at the drawing, and ... what do you think?
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Old 09-14-17, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I would suggest getting a DL-1 roadster instead of the lightweight DL-22 type frame. Far more rugged with a rear fork like a racing bike instead of a brazed in drop out. You'ld have to have reeeeel strong legs to flex one of those puppies.
edit: If you really love 3 speeds, you'll end up with one someday anyway!
(Just noticed this thread is in "Classic & Vintage". I came to it through a search. That explains your response.)

As my inquiry post indicated, I'm using my SA 3spd in a very unique way; 2spd with granny low on an eMTB.



Hoping to locate a pair of sliding dropouts that will fit a Soma B-Side with an axle slot only the thickness of the flat sides of the axle (~8mm). Soma and Paragon dropouts are 10mm and the torque twist washers with single tab aren't cutting the mustard on my vertical drops. Maybe some of the experienced 3-speeders in this thread will know if there are any out there to be had?

FYI: Nice bike you posted up there!
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Old 09-14-17, 06:27 PM
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Omg

I DID IT!!! Yes, I completed reading the entire thread! All 13,000+ posts/550 pages! In the time it took me to read this (on and off over a number of weeks), I have bought 3 Raleighs (pics to come), completely tearing down and rebuilding two of them. I have built the DIY cotter press from Harbor Freight (works great by the way), rebuilt hubs, built new wheels - wait - I have bought 4 Raleighs (donor parts bike) and sold 1... In addition to the wrenching, have put on (along with my wife) more than 100 miles on these great bikes in the last month.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Haven't posted in over 6 years, but this thread and these bikes have me back on this board...
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Old 09-14-17, 06:48 PM
  #13730  
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Originally Posted by jungwiar
I DID IT!!! Yes, I completed reading the entire thread! All 13,000+ posts/550 pages! In the time it took me to read this...
Good job but if you're looking for a challenge go to Adventure Rider in the Thumpers forum and read the DR650 thread. Should only take you about 14 times as long.

https://advrider.com/index.php?thread...thread.135295/
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Old 09-14-17, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jungwiar
I DID IT!!! Yes, I completed reading the entire thread! All 13,000+ posts/550 pages! In the time it took me to read this (on and off over a number of weeks), I have bought 3 Raleighs (pics to come), completely tearing down and rebuilding two of them. I have built the DIY cotter press from Harbor Freight (works great by the way), rebuilt hubs, built new wheels - wait - I have bought 4 Raleighs (donor parts bike) and sold 1... In addition to the wrenching, have put on (along with my wife) more than 100 miles on these great bikes in the last month.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Haven't posted in over 6 years, but this thread and these bikes have me back on this board...
You got a fever! And the only prescription is more 3 speeds!
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Old 09-14-17, 06:59 PM
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Everything was going along well with my 73 Sports project until I took the AW apart today. These pawl pins are rusted solid. Soaking in an acetone AT fluid mix now. We'll see. The hub shell is in very good shape on the outside so this was a bit of a surprise.

rusty.JPG
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Old 09-14-17, 07:07 PM
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Oh man - don't look at that! Since I posted last here, I have "cured" myself of buying Honda twins as well... Down to one ('74 CL360) in the garage (well, not counting the two others in parts).
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Old 09-14-17, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
Spare parts can be quite difficult to find for some of the Duomatic/Torpedo hubs. Including axle nuts!
Especially the axle nuts. Pretty sure that's a three speed. Duomatics were first made in '64.
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Old 09-14-17, 07:24 PM
  #13735  
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Everything was going along well with my 73 Sports project until I took the AW apart today. These pawl pins are rusted solid. Soaking in an acetone AT fluid mix now. We'll see. The hub shell is in very good shape on the outside so this was a bit of a surprise.

Attachment 580631
I've actually seen that several times on hubs of all different ages. Water can get in by riding a lot in very wet conditions, from flooding, or even from leaving the filler cap open and exposed to the weather. It doesn't take much water to rust the innards because it doesn't want to drain once in there. The hub shells have fairly good chrome usually and that can be cleaned, but the interior is not rust-proofed, so once the water is in, the rust starts up.
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Old 09-14-17, 09:21 PM
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Well, it goes to show you never know what you'll find until you open up a hub. Looks perfect on the outside. It will be a little disappointing if I can't get the pins out. I won't be able to call it a 50 dollar bike. I'm not going to sacrifice any of the good 50s hubs I have for this. Still, it is a good bike. Well worth putting another 50 bucks into if I have to.
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Old 09-15-17, 07:44 AM
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Whew, after an all night soaking I was able to pry the pawl pins up enough to grab the top with pliers and pull them out. Got everything degreased and soaking in Evaporust now. All the parts except the pawl springs look reusable. I'd better replace the other pawl springs too. They're .011 inch wire. I have some .012 guitar strings, they'll do.
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Old 09-15-17, 08:28 AM
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@BigChief after you're done with it, it will sing a pretty tune!
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Old 09-15-17, 08:37 AM
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@BigChief - I love it! It will be fine. FYI a Dremel tool with a small stainless steel wire brush attatchment does with Nedra with stuff like that. Wear a mask though, otherwise you'll inhale rust.
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Old 09-15-17, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
... I'd better replace the other pawl springs too. They're .011 inch wire. I have some .012 guitar strings, they'll do.
I'd appreciate a description of how you do this! If you can manage photos, that would be great; but whatever.
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Old 09-15-17, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@BigChief - I love it! It will be fine. FYI a Dremel tool with a small stainless steel wire brush attatchment does with Nedra with stuff like that. Wear a mask though, otherwise you'll inhale rust.
That would be nice. The only thing I have here are those toothbrush shaped brass brushes. There is a Dremel tool at my old shop. Maybe I could reacquisition it
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Old 09-15-17, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm
I'd appreciate a description of how you do this! If you can manage photos, that would be great; but whatever.
This shape isn't too difficult to form since I have an original to copy. I'll chuck different drills in my bench vise and wrap wire around them until I match that radius. Then I'll see how far to wrap the wire around the drill until I match the end that comes off the radius at an angle. The other side is straight. Then I'll make those two bends with needle nose pliers and cut to length.
My problem now is that the only .012 wire I have goes with sets of expensive strings for my acoustic guitar. The bulk packs I bought for my electric go from .010 to .013. .013 would be quite a bit stiffer than the original.011. I'm reluctant to go lighter with the .010.
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Old 09-15-17, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
This shape isn't too difficult to form since I have an original to copy. I'll chuck different drills in my bench vise and wrap wire around them until I match that radius. Then I'll see how far to wrap the wire around the drill until I match the end that comes off the radius at an angle. The other side is straight. Then I'll make those two bends with needle nose pliers and cut to length.
My problem now is that the only .012 wire I have goes with sets of expensive strings for my acoustic guitar. The bulk packs I bought for my electric go from .010 to .013. .013 would be quite a bit stiffer than the original.011. I'm reluctant to go lighter with the .010.
I hear you! I wonder if I have any broken strings kicking around...

You can get individual strings on eBay reasonably cheap:

Professional 150XL/.304mm Guitar String 0.012in Musical Extra Light 88MM | eBay

Might take a while to arrive, but no harm in putting in an order sooner rather than later.
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Old 09-15-17, 01:15 PM
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My Fleet

My contribution and current fleet:

Top Left - '73 Sports & Newly Aquired step thru Robin Hood. Hub says '69 on this one. Got for $20 in rough shape... New front wheel, rear rim (rebuilt with original hub), tires, full strip down and rebuild and linseed oil for the patina. Apologies for non-drive side shot. Mid-way picture on 20 mile rail-trail run...

Next - 1973 Sports in "Platinum" - have had this for 6 or 7 years. Bought from a co-worker returning to Sweden. New tires and B72. Solid bike - co-worker commuted on it year round for a number of years...

Next - His and Her's '70 Superbe's. Near mint condition! Bought from original owners with keys, racks (men's not installed), one pump, B66's in great shape, original Dunlop "White Sprite" tires and tubes, working Dyno hubs/lights... Unreal how nice these two are.

His and Her's in action - mid-way thru another 20 mile rail-trail run...

Finally, after complete strip down and rebuild, post past-Sunday ride. Hard to beat this ride with no one on the trail, Packer's game on the radio listening to them beat down Seattle (OK - maybe a stretch there) and a couple cold ones in the cooler.
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Old 09-15-17, 06:53 PM
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I ended up just using the needle nose pliers to form the wire. I used the .010 guitar string I had on hand. Remember the official size is .011, but the 10 seems to work fine. All you need is a circle big enough for the pin to fit through, kinked enough so it doesn't slip backwards off the pin and that little foot up front. The Evapo-Rust worked wonders after an overnight soak. So, I'm back in business. Might take a couple evenings off from working on this. Don't want the project to be over too fast.

x rust.JPG
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Old 09-15-17, 07:23 PM
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Musical pawl springs - too cool for school Big Chief - I love the innovation on this thread! I'm very impressed with the evaporust clean-up too - that hub was looking POTUS orange

Looking at your fleet jungwiar - Raleigh did choose some really nice colours. That darker grey platinum is classy. And the other colours I've seen on this thread too - the light metallic blues, the golds, silver, and of course the shades of green, make for very good-looking bikes. With my DL-1 stripped down to bare metal I was very tempted to go with a darker green 'british racing green'. But I've stuck with black, and currently 1/2way through randyjawas brush painting advice.

rhm - I have two S5 hubs but I can't tell what is wrong with the image (nice image btw) - please share what you've seen?

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Old 09-16-17, 05:33 AM
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Here's a pretty one.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...306909625.html

1963 LADIES ROYCE UNION 3 SPEED - $149 (CHESTER)



NICE SHAPE

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Old 09-16-17, 12:52 PM
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The $50.00 Superbe

Someone before me spent a little bit of money on this bike before I got it last weekend.
Not sure if they spent wisely....
I posted before that it appears someone tried to re-furbish the rear hub and had only succeeded in wrecking it.
The sun gear was completely ground down...
And the hub was way too tight. The adjustable cone side had the locknut and washer reversed as well.
The headset has been replaced and the chain and cables are new.
It also has a suspension seat post.
In any case, it's back on the road and I may take it to work for a while to get around on.
P1190327.jpg

P1190328.jpg

P1190329.jpg
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Old 09-16-17, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
Someone before me spent a little bit of money on this bike before I got it last weekend.
Not sure if they spent wisely....
I posted before that it appears someone tried to re-furbish the rear hub and had only succeeded in wrecking it.
The sun gear was completely ground down...
And the hub was way too tight. The adjustable cone side had the locknut and washer reversed as well.
The headset has been replaced and the chain and cables are new.
It also has a suspension seat post.
In any case, it's back on the road and I may take it to work for a while to get around on.
Attachment 580878

Attachment 580879

Attachment 580880
Today, even a bike shop can make these mistakes. Some mechanics have never worked on an old-type AW, and think they need to run fully tight like many modern hubs (zero play, and totally locked down). The old AWs run loose by today's standards and have pretty wide bearing tolerances, provided you set up the hub centering correctly by backing off the drive side cone by the 1/4 turn the manual calls for. It all goes to hell if you just max-tight down but the drive and non-drive cones. Then you have a hub running gears not properly aligned and all jammed together.

Then the transmission breaks down and the person sells the bike (for $50 here, it's still a good buy). "I took it to a shop, and it's broken again, so this thing sucks!".

I once worked on a bike fresh from a shop that was having issues. I immediately saw: (1) the front hub was on backwards and (2) the cones were set up all wrong on both the front and the back.
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Old 09-16-17, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
Today, even a bike shop can make these mistakes. Some mechanics have never worked on an old-type AW, and think they need to run fully tight like many modern hubs (zero play, and totally locked down). The old AWs run loose by today's standards and have pretty wide bearing tolerances, provided you set up the hub centering correctly by backing off the drive side cone by the 1/4 turn the manual calls for. It all goes to hell if you just max-tight down but the drive and non-drive cones. Then you have a hub running gears not properly aligned and all jammed together.

Then the transmission breaks down and the person sells the bike (for $50 here, it's still a good buy). "I took it to a shop, and it's broken again, so this thing sucks!".

I once worked on a bike fresh from a shop that was having issues. I immediately saw: (1) the front hub was on backwards and (2) the cones were set up all wrong on both the front and the back.
I think you nailed it. In this case both wheels were tight!
The sad sun pinion below.
Screen Shot 2017-09-14 at 7.59.12 AM.jpg
On the plus side the wheels are reasonably true, Dynohub works and the paint is presentable.
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