Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 10-06-17, 10:55 PM
  #14151  
Senior Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,998

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26478 Post(s)
Liked 10,443 Times in 7,246 Posts
Finally got this Sports repainted and rolling with some lighter weight modifications:

...for anyone considering using one of the new SA thumb shifters, the work great.
Attached Images
3alarmer is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 05:04 AM
  #14152  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by Scipunk
@3speedslow love the bike!
Since I am returning to the addicti... I mean hobby the ones I have bought have been while uneducated, important purchases to me for learning and such.
I know I dont have a cool scorcher (not sure what the means I assume a faster 3 speed?) or a old 40s or 50s but I love them none the less. The 64 has a weird story that will remain a mystery and the 73 while apparently left in a big is 1 month younger than me They will both be ridden I promise and I have a special plan for the 73
Someday perhaps Ill have a bike people will love as much as I do until then I need to figure out how to not break them lol
I have an emotional attachment to this sort of bike because as kids in the 60s on paper boy budgets, we would strip down old 3 speeds, flip the bars around and make our own "racing bikes". I'll admit to being guilty of blasting around town as fast as I could pretending I was riding a Rickman Triumph. The name scorcher goes back to the 1890s and describes troublesome young people blasting around on their bicycles, scaring the horses and generally being a nuisance. Which was exactly where I was at when I was 14 on my Rudge.
BigChief is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 06:32 AM
  #14153  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
I have an emotional attachment to this sort of bike because as kids in the 60s on paper boy budgets, we would strip down old 3 speeds, flip the bars around and make our own "racing bikes". I'll admit to being guilty of blasting around town as fast as I could pretending I was riding a Rickman Triumph. The name scorcher goes back to the 1890s and describes troublesome young people blasting around on their bicycles, scaring the horses and generally being a nuisance. Which was exactly where I was at when I was 14 on my Rudge.
I can respect that BC. I guess I am the new guy and I get excited over things you all have experienced multiple times. I just want to fit in man *kicks a stone* lol
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 07:02 AM
  #14154  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...for anyone considering using one of the new SA thumb shifters, the work great.
Very well done. What a nice set up. Bet it's a fun ride.
BigChief is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 10:09 AM
  #14155  
Senior Member
 
adventurepdx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,030
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...for anyone considering using one of the new SA thumb shifters, the work great.
Nice! One of these days I'll make a three speed MTB and use the new SA thumb shifter.

I've used the modern SA bar end on the Wayfarer, and it works well too!

adventurepdx is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 10:10 AM
  #14156  
Senior Member
 
adventurepdx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,030
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
I like to work on them but riding is still the reason to get them!
Well said!

Last edited by adventurepdx; 10-07-17 at 10:14 AM. Reason: fixed quote
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 11:44 AM
  #14157  
Senior Member
 
dweenk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,803

Bikes: Lots of English 3-speeds, a couple of old road bikes, 3 mountain bikes, 1 hybrid, and a couple of mash-ups

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 225 Posts
I have a Sprite down tube shifter for the 5 speed IGH. It has one broken lever (the 3 speed side), and I don't have a lot of confidence in the other lever either (both appear to be made of Delrin or something similar. It would be a pain to repair, since the levers are riveted onto the clamp; if someone would like to tackle this, I'll send them to a forum member for the cost of postage.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_0100.JPG (593.7 KB, 82 views)

Last edited by dweenk; 10-08-17 at 08:59 AM.
dweenk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 02:39 PM
  #14158  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx
Nice! One of these days I'll make a three speed MTB and use the new SA thumb shifter.

I've used the modern SA bar end on the Wayfarer, and it works well too!

First off i love those grips! Are they shellacked cork?

Second, how do you shift? Do you use your pinkie?

Oh and :
Untitled by David Ashe, on Flickr
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 02:41 PM
  #14159  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 115
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
Good job on the teardown. Please keep the pictures coming. This is a very interesting project.
I haven't been doing much because the weather has been to good to be shut up in the workshop. I have tried every "green" stripper I could find. The paint doesn't want to leave after 65 years, it's become attached. This is after 5 applications:1006171450-00.jpg

1006171504-01.jpg

1006171505-00.jpg

1006171519-00.jpg

1006171530-00.jpg
plympton is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 02:52 PM
  #14160  
Senior Member
 
adventurepdx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,030
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by Scipunk
First off i love those grips! Are they shellacked cork?
Yep, they are. Rivendell sells 'em.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/mie...ps-pair-normal

Originally Posted by Scipunk
Second, how do you shift? Do you use your pinkie?
I take it you haven't had a bike with bar end shifters before.

I guess you can use your pinkie, but I usually use thumb and/or forefinger.
adventurepdx is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 03:03 PM
  #14161  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by adventurepdx
Yep, they are. Rivendell sells 'em.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/mie...ps-pair-normal

Thanks for the link!


I take it you haven't had a bike with bar end shifters before.

I guess you can use your pinkie, but I usually use thumb and/or forefinger.
AHAHAHA you know that make way more sense now!
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 03:25 PM
  #14162  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,361

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1950 Post(s)
Liked 1,096 Times in 649 Posts
I was out for an errand and got a chance to do some fast city riding. Turned around and found rain clouds blocking my way home. Stopped into the bike shop to get some water, down it came!

Waited a bit and it let up. Decided wet was going to happen so headed out. Not too bad. I was more interested in the strange movement of the left crank arm. When I got home I moved it around while holding the drive side, it is loose.

Is the best remedy to press the pin down some more or remove it? It seems far enough in, could be enough reason for new pins.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 03:47 PM
  #14163  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,840

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,448 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
I was more interested in the strange movement of the left crank arm. When I got home I moved it around while holding the drive side, it is loose.

Is the best remedy to press the pin down some more or remove it? It seems far enough in, could be enough reason for new pins.
As long as it's loose, you may as well remove it and check for damage. Riding with a loose pin soon wears a gouge in the pin:



If the face of the pin isn't damaged, you can re-install it with a press (not a hammer). If you don't have a press, you can cobble up a serviceable substitute using a C-clamp and a wrench socket. The C-clamp will press on the head of the pin (not the threaded shaft) and the socket slips over the threaded shaft to give something for the other side of the C-clamp to work against.

If you do need to replace the pin, make sure you get the right diameter and be prepared to do some filing to get it to fit properly. Make sure you orient the pin so the crank arms are 180 from each other.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 10-07-17 at 03:50 PM.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 05:22 PM
  #14164  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 240

Bikes: 30's Speedwell Club Racer, 40's Speedwell 'Z' racer, 50's Unknown Aussie with nice lugs, 50's Speedwell Roadster, 50's Repco Roadster, '63 Raleigh DL-1, 70's Raleigh Sprite, Puch Promenade with Nexus 8

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
3speedslow I think it's the combo of the stem, bars and tyres that make this particular scorcher look like it's itching to go fast

OK I've done something bad and need your help and advice
I try to steer clear of chemicals as they make me feel ill after some unprotected exposure in a workplace years ago. But sometimes I use them to clean bike parts - I try to stick to citrus cleaner, vinegar, aluminium foil, brass brush, polish. Anyway - I forgot about the seat stay bolts I'd put in some de-rust to soak (main ingredient Phosphoric acid). I soak in a closed container so the fumes don't bother me, and (usually) check the parts after an hour max. This time I forgot all about them - Put them in Tuesday, took them out Saturday. This is what 5 days did to the bolts, the 2 on the L used to be exactly the same as the bolt on the R.

IMG20171008094157 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

I've measured the outside diameter of the threaded part at 6.35mm which converts exactly to 1/4". These bolts attach the removable seat stays to a DL-1. My questions are:
Am I right in assuming they are 26 tpi whitworth?
Would a bolt from an English motorcycle of the same era fit as a replacement?
Like these? 1/4 X 3/4 in CEI BOLT 26TPI PACK OF TEN | eBay
I could file down the heads to the right thickness.

I was sooo close to having it all back together and test riding this weekend

Last edited by arty dave; 10-07-17 at 06:04 PM.
arty dave is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 06:34 PM
  #14165  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
As long as it's loose, you may as well remove it and check for damage. Riding with a loose pin soon wears a gouge in the pin:



If the face of the pin isn't damaged, you can re-install it with a press (not a hammer). If you don't have a press, you can cobble up a serviceable substitute using a C-clamp and a wrench socket. The C-clamp will press on the head of the pin (not the threaded shaft) and the socket slips over the threaded shaft to give something for the other side of the C-clamp to work against.

If you do need to replace the pin, make sure you get the right diameter and be prepared to do some filing to get it to fit properly. Make sure you orient the pin so the crank arms are 180 from each other.
What about the cotter pins from
Bicycle Crank Cotters
Would the Raleigh cut ones still need filing?
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 06:45 PM
  #14166  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,840

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,448 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by Scipunk
What about the cotter pins from
Bicycle Crank Cotters
Would the Raleigh cut ones still need filing?
Mark does note that he will file the Grade A pins to fit the Raleigh taper for a small added charge. Probably worth it, to make sure they're right (assuming you have a Raleigh, that is):

"The 9.5mm Grade A cotters are not cut deeply enough to be a good fit for Raleighs. For non-Raleigh owners, this is a good thing. Cotters cut to fit Raleighs go in too far for most other cranks. Filing cotters to fit whatever cranks you are working on used to be the norm.

"These days, not everyone is comfortable trying to file a pair of cotters to the correct depth and and at the same angle. So, I made a fixture that allows me to accurately remove more metal to make them a good fit for the typical Raleigh crank. Unfortunately modifying the cotters eats up time, so I have to charge $4.50 each for the modified ones vs. $3.50 for the unmodified cotters."
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 06:52 PM
  #14167  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Mark does note that he will file the Grade A pins to fit the Raleigh taper for a small added charge. Probably worth it, to make sure they're right (assuming you have a Raleigh, that is):

"The 9.5mm Grade A cotters are not cut deeply enough to be a good fit for Raleighs. For non-Raleigh owners, this is a good thing. Cotters cut to fit Raleighs go in too far for most other cranks. Filing cotters to fit whatever cranks you are working on used to be the norm.

"These days, not everyone is comfortable trying to file a pair of cotters to the correct depth and and at the same angle. So, I made a fixture that allows me to accurately remove more metal to make them a good fit for the typical Raleigh crank. Unfortunately modifying the cotters eats up time, so I have to charge $4.50 each for the modified ones vs. $3.50 for the unmodified cotters."
yeah i had noted that, and to me i am willing to spend the extra for correct cotters if i cannot reuse the ones in the 64. Sadly my 73 has the R nuts so i gotta be extra careful with those
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 06:56 PM
  #14168  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Side note as i don't have a bearing ruler, are all Raleigh sports BB bearings the same size? If not does anyone know the size on a 64?
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 07:22 PM
  #14169  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 240

Bikes: 30's Speedwell Club Racer, 40's Speedwell 'Z' racer, 50's Unknown Aussie with nice lugs, 50's Speedwell Roadster, 50's Repco Roadster, '63 Raleigh DL-1, 70's Raleigh Sprite, Puch Promenade with Nexus 8

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
Scipunk - should be 1/4"
I put my BB and cranks back on yesterday - I used my bench vice to press the cotters into place. That's how I got them out too...after breaking a c-clamp
arty dave is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 08:13 PM
  #14170  
On the road
 
SirMike1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,196

Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 905 Times in 344 Posts
Warm for a fall day here - got a ride in before it became dark.

__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
SirMike1983 is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 08:25 PM
  #14171  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Chicopee, Massachusetts
Posts: 161

Bikes: 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1964 Raleigh Sports (Canadian?), 1969 Triumph Ladies, 70's Columbia Sports III, 07 Diamondback Venom

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by arty dave
Scipunk - should be 1/4"
I put my BB and cranks back on yesterday - I used my bench vice to press the cotters into place. That's how I got them out too...after breaking a c-clamp
gotta love it...lol i may just go that route if i cant get it with the industrial c clamp i have!

Originally Posted by SirMike1983
Warm for a fall day here - got a ride in before it became dark.

Gorgeous bike there sir!
Scipunk is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 08:32 PM
  #14172  
Senior Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,998

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 305 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26478 Post(s)
Liked 10,443 Times in 7,246 Posts
Originally Posted by arty dave
Scipunk - should be 1/4"
I put my BB and cranks back on yesterday - I used my bench vice to press the cotters into place. That's how I got them out too...after breaking a c-clamp
.
...if you are not gonna use it very often, a cheap drill press vise with a socket for the negative space works too. Because it's smaller and more maneuverable, you can take it over to the bike, rather than wrestle the bike up onto the bench vise. I think they cost a little less than 20 bucks.

If you use one a lot, the screw handle usually gives out.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 09:04 PM
  #14173  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by arty dave
3speedslow I think it's the combo of the stem, bars and tyres that make this particular scorcher look like it's itching to go fast

OK I've done something bad and need your help and advice
I try to steer clear of chemicals as they make me feel ill after some unprotected exposure in a workplace years ago. But sometimes I use them to clean bike parts - I try to stick to citrus cleaner, vinegar, aluminium foil, brass brush, polish. Anyway - I forgot about the seat stay bolts I'd put in some de-rust to soak (main ingredient Phosphoric acid). I soak in a closed container so the fumes don't bother me, and (usually) check the parts after an hour max. This time I forgot all about them - Put them in Tuesday, took them out Saturday. This is what 5 days did to the bolts, the 2 on the L used to be exactly the same as the bolt on the R.

IMG20171008094157 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

I've measured the outside diameter of the threaded part at 6.35mm which converts exactly to 1/4". These bolts attach the removable seat stays to a DL-1. My questions are:
Am I right in assuming they are 26 tpi whitworth?
Would a bolt from an English motorcycle of the same era fit as a replacement?
Like these? 1/4 X 3/4 in CEI BOLT 26TPI PACK OF TEN | eBay
I could file down the heads to the right thickness.

I was sooo close to having it all back together and test riding this weekend
Wish I could help with this. Went to the exploded view and parts list at Sheldon brown and it's listed simply as "bolt". I can say this. A chart of British Standard Fine bolts list a 1/4"x 26tpi. If Raleigh used these or whatever CEI is, I don't know. And whether CEI and BSF have the same thread pitch is another I don't know. Tapping it out and using a regular 1/4x 28 tpi bolt may be another option.
BigChief is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 09:11 PM
  #14174  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,840

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,448 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by Scipunk
Side note as i don't have a bearing ruler, are all Raleigh sports BB bearings the same size? If not does anyone know the size on a 64?
All the Raleigh 3-speed bottom brackets I have worked on have used 1/4" balls.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 10-07-17, 09:16 PM
  #14175  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,840

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3617 Post(s)
Liked 3,448 Times in 1,958 Posts
Originally Posted by Scipunk
Sadly my 73 has the R nuts so i gotta be extra careful with those
The "R" is just a little disc pressed into the hole in the nut. I haven't tried it myself, but you may be able to push the "R" disc out of the Raleigh nut and press it into the replacement nut.
JohnDThompson is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.