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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 04-01-18, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Few years ago in Prospect Park I fell into an easygoing lap or two with a guy who was riding an immaculate 70s high-end Raleigh, maybe a Professional? I knew then but have forgotten now. Anyway I commented on his perfect bike and he said "I just took it out of the closet after 30 years. It's in better shape than I am." I suppose most of us can identify.

What I was trying to get at in my post is that now I look at the UO8 (and its many cousins) vs the Sport and what seemed like a fancy upgrade when I was an ignorant, although extremely mendacious, teenager, now looks like a very similar "utility" bike that would have been matched by just a few mods to the Sport. I forgot that the UO8 did have alloy hubs, and the alloy Mafac centerpulls saved some weight over the Sport's steel sidepulls and seemed classier. (I don't remember now if they worked any better.) But the frame tubing, lugs, geometry, and many components? Interchangeable, it seems to me.
Again to reinforce your point: I made my AO-8 into a utility 3-speed by lacing an AW hub onto 700c rims and put on upright bars and a sprung saddle. Very nice ride to be honest but I put it back to drop bar as I have a variety of 3 speeds to ride (though horror of horrors my Trek 600 now sports the AW and a set of porteur bars - no drewing though).
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Old 04-01-18, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markk900
Again to reinforce your point: I made my AO-8 into a utility 3-speed by lacing an AW hub onto 700c rims and put on upright bars and a sprung saddle. Very nice ride to be honest but I put it back to drop bar as I have a variety of 3 speeds to ride (though horror of horrors my Trek 600 now sports the AW and a set of porteur bars - no drewing though).
I am so glad you mentioned this. My holdover project, stalled from last spring, is an AW conversion for a mid-70s (seems so from the decals) white Peugeot mixte. I got as far as lacing new, brushed CR18s to the stock front hub and a salvaged AW. They need to be tightened and trued. The AW is missing all its exterior bits--dust cap, cog spacers, cog, C-clip, etc., so I have to gather all those. I have a trigger shifter but will need the wire+housing and frame stops. Then I'm making it cotterless so I need a new spindle for the bottom bracket. But using some clamps I little by little squeezed the rear triangle to the right spacing for the AW. Nothing at all to it!
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Old 04-01-18, 10:49 AM
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I often think that if my prized original 1958 Sun Cresta had a three speed hub, I would use it a lot more because it seems the 3 speed has a wide enough range to fit my riding style. The Sun is a five speed derailleur with a 48T CR and a 14-22 freewheel. The 71 Robin Hood "Sports Model" (as proclaimed by the decal on the frame) gets more use and enjoyment because as old as the technology is, it still works amazingly well with its 21T cog (changed from original 18T). I will probably never convert the Sun to a "scorcher" but.........
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Old 04-01-18, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
The hub would be an SA licensed clone made by Fichtel & Sachs
So... would parts Interchange?
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Old 04-01-18, 02:03 PM
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@browngw: having seen the Sun Cresta in person I can attest to it being even more stunning in real life than the photo suggests. Lucky for you that you have a variety of IGH bikes to ride when the mood hits - that one though deserves a nice retirement at 60+ years old!
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Old 04-01-18, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Here's my next project. A 1951 23" Rudge Sports. All there except the grips. Front fender has some serious issues. It will test my restoration skills.

51Rudge01 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
51Rudge02 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
51Rudge05 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
51Rudge04 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
51Rudge06 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
damn
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Old 04-01-18, 03:10 PM
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You know this is killing me. The market here is different. there are already flippers here. There are barn find dudes. I want fixable old bikes, thats about it.I got nothing better to do and am good at it.It's nice they are not that close in tolorence. They have to ride straight.
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Old 04-01-18, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti
So... would parts Interchange?
It's a fair question but I wouldn't assume so. As I see it, you're buying the rights to copy a design, not manufacture identical parts.

I've met a man who was enormously wealthy because his family invented and patented the worldwide rights to the automobile differential transmission back in the early 20th century. Those tranny's were all model specific, not identical and I suspect it may be the same with these.
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Old 04-01-18, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
It's a fair question but I wouldn't assume so. As I see it, you're buying the rights to copy a design, not manufacture identical parts.

I've met a man who was enormously wealthy because his family invented and patented the worldwide rights to the automobile differential transmission back in the early 20th century. Those tranny's were all model specific, not identical and I suspect it may be the same with these.
That is a fun fact.
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Old 04-01-18, 05:52 PM
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I paid $1 for a Sears/Puch with a Steyr license built Sturmey with a stripped sun gear. I was surprised that the sprocket would not fit a Sturmey hub, but I believe on that one at least the pawls, springs, planetary gears should interchange.
Was kind of a surprise about the sprocket, though.
Just picked up another Steyr/Sears hub, but this one is marked "Sears." I have no plans to pull it apart. Just got it because 1) it was interesting and 2) it was essentially free.
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Old 04-01-18, 06:21 PM
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Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike. The fender mount was between the rear brake caliper concave spacer and it's spring seat (instead of in front of mounting tube). Some other details that I now forgot about too. Anyway, best way to reuse the fork? Best way to shim or punch? Thanks

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Old 04-01-18, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike.[...]
I've seen this on more than one lower tier Raleigh (Sports, Record, Sprite) of the era. First one was on a Sprite -- had paint intact on the surface which should have been finished in prep for the crown race. Seen a bunch worse including poorly brazed lugs. Somewhere in this very thread, I believe, is a picture of a bike with failed lug brazing -- I think it was a Raleigh. I have no idea how to find it -- if the pictures till exists in BF. Just remember it was gross and disgusting.

We all hart our Raleighs, but some were pretty buck toothed and ugly. Refurbed a Peugeot PRN10 a couple years back (531 three tube) and their workmanship was about as bad as Raleigh.
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Old 04-01-18, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by browngw
I will probably never convert the Sun to a "scorcher" but.........
It seems to me if the Cresta is original you'd not want to mess with it.
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Old 04-01-18, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike. The fender mount was between the rear brake caliper concave spacer and it's spring seat (instead of in front of mounting tube). Some other details that I now forgot about too. Anyway, best way to reuse the fork? Best way to shim or punch? Thanks
True, there was a general quality decline in the 70s, but fortunately for us, Raleigh was too pressed for cash to retool for thoroughly modern designs, so we are blessed with essentially 1930s bikes being made all the way to the bitter end in 1980. So, there's a good side. That crown race doesn't need to be tight on the steerer tube. You can just put it back together. There's not enough friction to make it spin on the tube. In the 70s, they did do away with the crimp on rear fender hanger and changed to a welded on through tab like the front fender. Bad idea. You can't adjust it. Sometimes, to get the fender clip at the front properly engaged on it's frame tube, you have to mount that hanger at the back of it's tube instead of the front. But then you have that curved washer on the brake that's supposed to fit against the frame tube against the flat fender tab. Solution...Get rid of that curved washer and replace it with a flat one or a stack of flat plain washers. It works better that way anyhow. With a flat washer, you can tip the calipers to balance the distance of the brake pads against the rim and make them even. That washer does have a groove that holds the brake spring, but so does the washer in front of the spring. You don't need 2 grooves. One is plenty.
edit:
Forgot to mention. I think by 1974 Sports came with self adjusting brake levers. If you have them and they bug you, you can get them to operate normally by removing the little spring inside. I don't like them because I prefer a bit of lever travel before the pads contact the rim. My hands are in a more comfortable position if braking action starts about midway of the lever travel.

Last edited by BigChief; 04-02-18 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 04-02-18, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by browngw
It occurred to me the other day that I had never had the bottom bracket apart on my Robin Hood or had any idea of its condition. The bike still looks almost new after 47 years. The chap who I purchased it from had mentioned he "greased all the bearings" and to his credit he had, BUT he did not mention the hammering and drilling to get the cotter out! When I went to check it the cotters came out fairly easy but the drive side was not the right taper, was showing wear and there were what looked like drill marks on the BB axle. The bearing was not smooth feeling but it was just a little crud had fallen in the grease and adjustment. I carefully blued and filed a new cotter, replaced the grease and adjusted the bearing. All is well.
I think from now on I will check everything at the start, not three years later!
Drill, is last resort for not making it pop. it will always pop out. only when someone else ffed with it before.I use a c-clamp and its not perfect. They pop
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Old 04-02-18, 01:14 PM
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Winter is back. This is old.
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Old 04-02-18, 02:54 PM
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What are some suggestions on 110 (4.25") grips? I find the typical 120mm -130mm grips too long on OEM bars. I have found some Raleigh type reproductions by Kenda https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ral...19.m1438.l2649
But I was hoping to find something a little more comfy.
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Old 04-02-18, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike. The fender mount was between the rear brake caliper concave spacer and it's spring seat (instead of in front of mounting tube). Some other details that I now forgot about too. Anyway, best way to reuse the fork? Best way to shim or punch? Thanks
Same as BC said - I had this issue with the crown race on my '63 DL-1. I'd never come across this before. There was rust under a lot of the paint on the bike so I did a strip and re-paint - the small amount of paint that made it into the fork crown was enough to make the crown race a tight fit. I've had no issues with it, no looseness or anything. There was none before I did the repaint either.
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Old 04-02-18, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
What are some suggestions on 110 (4.25") grips? I find the typical 120mm -130mm grips too long on OEM bars. I have found some Raleigh type reproductions by Kenda https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ral...19.m1438.l2649
But I was hoping to find something a little more comfy.
I find these repro Raleigh grips to be quite comfortable. Made in Japan by OGK -
https://nl.aliexpress.com/store/prod...375598027.html

You can get them on Ebay as well, they come without the 'R', but maybe they're a rip-off? Don't know
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Old 04-02-18, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
What are some suggestions on 110 (4.25") grips? I find the typical 120mm -130mm grips too long on OEM bars. I have found some Raleigh type reproductions by Kenda https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ral...19.m1438.l2649
But I was hoping to find something a little more comfy.
Nice grips but the shipping is expensive.
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Old 04-02-18, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by arty dave
I find these repro Raleigh grips to be quite comfortable. Made in Japan by OGK -
https://nl.aliexpress.com/store/prod...375598027.html

You can get them on Ebay as well, they come without the 'R', but maybe they're a rip-off? Don't know
Price is good, free shipping. I ordered some guitar parts recently from Aliexpress and was quite impressed.
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Old 04-02-18, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti
Drill, is last resort for not making it pop. it will always pop out. only when someone else ffed with it before.I use a c-clamp and its not perfect. They pop
As a rule I ALWAYS disassemble all the bearings and repack.
I do, however have a couple of very original "show bikes" that I haven't messed with.
A '72 Superbe and a 67 Sprite 5 speed...


p1060666.jpg

p1090039.jpg

p1090040.jpg
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Old 04-02-18, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Here's my next project. A 1951 23" Rudge Sports. All there except the grips. Front fender has some serious issues. It will test my restoration skills.
Not sure of the etiquette here but I sure am curious what you paid for the bike. Or did you trade?
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Old 04-03-18, 04:37 AM
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I'll say this much. Where I live, the most you'll ever get for an old "English racer" is $150. And that's if it's shiny and rather new looking. There is no price premium for older models. So far, I haven't been able to get over $100 for any of my finished project bikes. I like to say that I loose money on every bike I fix, but I make it up in volume.
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Old 04-03-18, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
As a rule I ALWAYS disassemble all the bearings and repack.
I do, however have a couple of very original "show bikes" that I haven't messed with.
A '72 Superbe and a 67 Sprite 5 speed...


Attachment 605712

Attachment 605713

Attachment 605714
These are gorgeous bikes! I love the burgundy Sprite. The catalogs don't list the tall frame in this color. Goes to show you can't always depend on them.
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