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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 04-17-18, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
@gster - Wow. Sorry about your tree falling. Glad to hear you, your family as well as your structure and bikes are all ok.

What kind of tree was that? Was it healthy? What you gonna do with the wood?
That was a hundred + year old Silver Maple.
Now firewood.
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Old 04-17-18, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by browngw
How about this style @agmetal ? In the white of course.
Nice! I think that might be the one for the downtube. What to do about others? Maybe the little fork blade decals, something on the seat tube, top tube...maybe a heron on the rear fender?
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Old 04-17-18, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
tell me your secret for going 34 years without a rear flat.
Ah, I didn't say I went 34 years without a flat, just that I hadn't changed the tube on a Sturmey 3-speed rear wheel in 34 years - the last time would have been in 1984 when I was 11 and riding a beat up 1970's Puch picnic delivering Sunday newspapers in Leicester, England. I spent most of my paper-round money on tires, tubes, brakes and other bike maintenance, but it was a good bike to learn on I remember my older brother showing me how to open up the bottom bracket and grease the bearings. Still at the earliest opportunity I bought a used Peugeot racer and hadn't ridden a Sturmey 3-speed until three decades later, and on another continent, I pulled two Raleigh 3-speeds from my father-in-law's garage where they had sat unused for almost as long. Here they are just as I found them
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Last edited by Dewey101; 04-17-18 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 04-17-18, 11:57 AM
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The owner of my local bike shop Papillon Cycles in Arlington, VA, Bailey Garfield, started out as a wrench in a Raleigh shop back in the 70's and he's done a marvellous job rebuilding the Sturmey AW's on both bikes and replacing the cables and brake pads. My wife opted to keep the original steel rims with new kenda gumwall tires in keeping with the look of the original tires, but the diamond frame's rims were eaten away with rust so I had Bailey thread the original IGH into a replacement CR-18 aluminum rim, also replacing the front rim, fitting a larger sprocket, new rear rack, new grips that looked remarkably like the original black plastic one's, new chain, and Kool Stop brake pads. I kept the original Brooks saddle and fitted Schwalbe Marathon greenguard tires, Planet Bike blinkie LED lights, and a mirror. With the rim upgrade my bike feels lighter and stops much better than my wife's shorter mid-step frame. I love riding it, the 26" tires feel a more comfortable height than the 700c's on my commuter, and of course there's the pedal feel and click click sound from the Sturmey I recall from my youth - it's a wonderful time machine!

Here it is now, I should really get a wider axle to mount the Chariot hitch cup, and someone on this forum suggested it would be a good opportunity to learn how to build a Sturmey AW but I wouldn't know where to get the part and currently don't have the time to learn how to do a gearbox overhaul. I bought a spare axle nut from Harris Cyclery just in case I strip the old one. We use the bikes now for family leisure riding.
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Last edited by Dewey101; 04-17-18 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 04-17-18, 12:31 PM
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@DEWEY001 - when they rebuilt your front wheel you said they replaced it with a bigger “sprocket”. Do you mean a bigger hub in front? Or new sprocket for rear?

I’m asking because my cone on one side of my R20 is slightly pitted and I’m thinking about building a new wheel with a better hub.
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Old 04-17-18, 12:32 PM
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I should have been clearer, I meant I asked Bailey to replace the rear sprocket with a larger cog. On the front wheel AFAIK Bailey kept the original front hub and replaced the rim and spokes. Here's a close up of the front wheel
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Old 04-17-18, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW
HarrisCyclery also has them but Sun's own website doesn't show them in 40H anymore.

From Santucci-cycles:
700c rims in 40hole seem to be getting rare. The Dyads, of course, are available and I presume they will be on into the future. I do find that there are 622mm Rhyno Lites with 40h in black with machined sidewall at Treefort and Niagara.

A couple years ago, I decided to expermiment with putting 700c 622mm bsd wheels on a Sports. I put the pictures of that bike in this thread within the last couple weeks. I had a 40h AW hub and a 36 Dyno for the front and the only rims I could find at the time with 40 and 36 hole were the Dyads, which I felt would have been unstylish for a Sports, and some black CR-18s from Bikewagon. At the time, Bikewagon had the only 40 hole 622mm CR18s I could find and now they appear to have none.

If it is true that Sun Ringle is no longer making the CR18 rims it is very disturbing news. These rims appear to be one of the true bargains in bicycle parts at $20 to $35 each, depending on where and when. Today, there are copious quantities of them available at Niagara, Treefort, Bikewagon, and many other places. Lots of 590mm polished rims in 32, 36, and 40h. If they stop making them it will eventually create a big CR-18 shaped hole in the hearts of us who like 650A wheels as, as far as I know, the Sun rims are the only decent rim in that size.

WTH, here's a couple more pictures of the Sports with the 700c wheels. Just put Raleigh branded stem (SR), bars(Sakai), and sidepull brakes(Dia-Compe) from a Raleigh salvage bike of some kind and wrapped the bars with cloth tape and tied off with twine. White Carlton hoods from a SC and a new bar end SA 3sp shifter which works extremely well.
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Old 04-17-18, 02:31 PM
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pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

Last edited by restlessswind; 04-17-18 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewey101
Ah, I didn't say I went 34 years without a flat, just that I hadn't changed the tube on a Sturmey 3-speed rear wheel in 34 years - the last time would have been in 1984 when I was 11 and riding a beat up 1970's Puch picnic delivering Sunday newspapers in Leicester, England. I spent most of my paper-round money on tires, tubes, brakes and other bike maintenance, but it was a good bike to learn on I remember my older brother showing me how to open up the bottom bracket and grease the bearings. Still at the earliest opportunity I bought a used Peugeot racer and hadn't ridden a Sturmey 3-speed until three decades later, and on another continent, I pulled two Raleigh 3-speeds from my father-in-law's garage where they had sat unused for almost as long. Here they are just as I found them
I had a long three-speed layoff between adolescence and 2013 as well. Sometimes I think gee, all that time and I could have happily been riding around on one, but mostly I'm happy to fall into things when I'm ready for them.

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Old 04-17-18, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.
It is but you can go with lower gearing up to a 22 tooth rear maybe even 24. The hockey stick chainguards are easily adjustable, the enclosed ones can be fussy but I think they will clear 22 teeth. Anyone?
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Old 04-17-18, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.
A 20T is a good size but you may want a 22T as well, to test both. Won't interfere with your chain guard but you most likely will need a new (longer) chain to accommodate the increased diameter of the cog.
Most bike stores have cogs in stock.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewey101
but the diamond frame's rims were eaten away with rust so I had Bailey thread the original IGH into a replacement CR-18 aluminum rim, also replacing the front rim,
Mine is the step-thru frame, in the big (21"?) size, but black, and for the same reason I had to go the CR18 route. It's bothering, the notion that these rims might become unavailable.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.
If yours is a typical Raleigh 70's 3spd, you shouldn't have a problem with the chain hitting the guard. That's my guess and experience.

The cogs came either flat or dished and, IIRC, there are two spacer washers which you can use to adjust chainline.
Looks like all the sprockets that Niagara has are dished and yours probably is too, but if not, re-position the spacers to account.

Now to answer the question you asked: yes, the 20t sprocket you refer to will work on your hub.
The sprocket that you want is one with three "prongs". All the SA sprockets I see at Niagara with three "prongs" should work.

If you have a 48t front, 20t or 22t rear might be nice. Depends on your personal preference as to cadence, I think.
With a larger sprocket, you may need a longer chain.
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Old 04-17-18, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewey101
someone on this forum suggested it would be a good opportunity to learn how to build a Sturmey AW .
I finally did just that a few weeks ago and though it was messy and smelly (solvent) and I had to lock the cats in the bedroom for several hours which one of them just hated, it was not difficult and went without a hitch. The hub is slightly smoother now and ready for the next 50 years, I guess.
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Old 04-17-18, 04:12 PM
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When I'm actively looking for an inconsequential thing to be annoyed about I let myself get annoyed at the revival of the 650B tire size when there were a few hundred thousand British 3 speeds in regular use with 650A wheels and owners that would be happy for a selection of new rims and, more important, tires. If I'm missing something I would be happy to be straightened out.
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Old 04-17-18, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.
An AW with an 18T is fairly high geared for myself. Up to 22T is good for DL1's and I have a 21T on my Robin Hood Sports. Two others have been changed from 18T to 20T. The 22T fits in the enclosed chaincase of the 1979 DL1.
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Old 04-17-18, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
If yours is a typical Raleigh 70's 3spd, you shouldn't have a problem with the chain hitting the guard. That's my guess and experience.

The cogs came either flat or dished and, IIRC, there are two spacer washers which you can use to adjust chainline.
Looks like all the sprockets that Niagara has are dished and yours probably is too, but if not, re-position the spacers to account.

Now to answer the question you asked: yes, the 20t sprocket you refer to will work on your hub.
The sprocket that you want is one with three "prongs". All the SA sprockets I see at Niagara with three "prongs" should work.

If you have a 48t front, 20t or 22t rear might be nice. Depends on your personal preference as to cadence, I think.
With a larger sprocket, you may need a longer chain.
One thing I should mention. I strongly recommend a 1/8" thick cog and not a 3/32". The thinner cog will work but its thinner splines put more stress on the driver channels. Here's a 1/8" 22T
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sturmey-Arc...YAAOSwz7NaYpo0
I found 48x22 gearing too low for flat country. The 22T does work for me in hilly country. I'm happy with 46x22 on my bigger, heavier DL-1 though.
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Old 04-17-18, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
It is perfect. It has cycling history behind it too. In the early days of bicycling, it was a nickname given to bad boys who blasted around town on their bikes and caused a ruckus.

I wonder what The Scorcher march and two-step sounds like?
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Old 04-17-18, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
700c rims in 40hole seem to be getting rare. The Dyads, of course, are available and I presume they will be on into the future. I do find that there are 622mm Rhyno Lites with 40h in black with machined sidewall at Treefort and Niagara.

A couple years ago, I decided to expermiment with putting 700c 622mm bsd wheels on a Sports. I put the pictures of that bike in this thread within the last couple weeks. I had a 40h AW hub and a 36 Dyno for the front and the only rims I could find at the time with 40 and 36 hole were the Dyads, which I felt would have been unstylish for a Sports, and some black CR-18s from Bikewagon. At the time, Bikewagon had the only 40 hole 622mm CR18s I could find and now they appear to have none.

If it is true that Sun Ringle is no longer making the CR18 rims it is very disturbing news. These rims appear to be one of the true bargains in bicycle parts at $20 to $35 each, depending on where and when. Today, there are copious quantities of them available at Niagara, Treefort, Bikewagon, and many other places. Lots of 590mm polished rims in 32, 36, and 40h. If they stop making them it will eventually create a big CR-18 shaped hole in the hearts of us who like 650A wheels as, as far as I know, the Sun rims are the only decent rim in that size.

WTH, here's a couple more pictures of the Sports with the 700c wheels. Just put Raleigh branded stem (SR), bars(Sakai), and sidepull brakes(Dia-Compe) from a Raleigh salvage bike of some kind and wrapped the bars with cloth tape and tied off with twine. White Carlton hoods from a SC and a new bar end SA 3sp shifter which works extremely well.
Do you have any close-up pictures of how your B&M headlight is attached to the heron bracket?
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Old 04-17-18, 11:04 PM
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A

Originally Posted by restlessswind
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.
Thanks all for the input. Much appreciated. I ask as my wife has hip and spine issues. She tends to ride primary in 1st gear on a 17 or 18 tooth on flat and slightly elevated surface, and she's wishing for a lower gear. She rarely, if at all, ever goes into 3rd. I will try a 22, and see how she does.
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Old 04-18-18, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
WTH, here's a couple more pictures of the Sports with the 700c wheels. Just put Raleigh branded stem (SR), bars(Sakai), and sidepull brakes(Dia-Compe) from a Raleigh salvage bike of some kind and wrapped the bars with cloth tape and tied off with twine. White Carlton hoods from a SC and a new bar end SA 3sp shifter which works extremely well.
That is a fine looking bicycle.

How well does the dynohub work with the modern LED B+M? Does it offer enough juice?
And is the rear light also connected?

I have similar plans for a red bike of mine. Though I'll probably use an B+M IQ-XS or convert a vintage light into a modern one:


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Old 04-18-18, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dewey101
Here it is now, I should really get a wider axle to mount the Chariot hitch cup, and someone on this forum suggested it would be a good opportunity to learn how to build a Sturmey AW but I wouldn't know where to get the part and currently don't have the time to learn how to do a gearbox overhaul.
Check the exploded diagrams on SheldonBrown's website. Here is the parts list for the AW hub.

Google the Sales No. and plenty of websites will show up.
HMN388 for example is #22: Dome Nut New - SA logo.

Pretty much every single AW part is still available new. SJS Cycles in the UK probably has a lot of parts but also HollandBikeshop.com has every imaginable piece for sale.

English eBay (eBay.co.uk is also a good source for SA parts.

Last edited by JaccoW; 04-18-18 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 04-18-18, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by restlessswind
A



Thanks all for the input. Much appreciated. I ask as my wife has hip and spine issues. She tends to ride primary in 1st gear on a 17 or 18 tooth on flat and slightly elevated surface, and she's wishing for a lower gear. She rarely, if at all, ever goes into 3rd. I will try a 22, and see how she does.
22T sounds right in your case.
Youtube cog swap video, quite simple.
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Old 04-18-18, 07:50 AM
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I am mostly a flatlander in Pigseye. That said, there are minor or major grades to deal with. I am up to 12 or so AW SA hubs which i can swear are the best. All the AW hubs have 18T except for 2. One had a 17T X 46 & 1 had a 19T X 44. I want 20T 21T & 22T to get it right for myself. I would say the premium decorated cranks are all 48T.

2nd gear is the gear you want right. I am 61yrs old and not getting younger. It does take a month or so to get the rhythm back in the legs. I have run out of 3rd gear down a hill but also not had enough 1st gear. I usually ride 10 to 12 mph with dog in 2nd gear.

Last edited by johnnyspaghetti; 04-18-18 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 04-18-18, 08:09 AM
  #16250  
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Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

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Looks like tomorrow I will collect the black '63 Rudge Sports I bought a week or so ago. I paid probably 20% more than I felt comfortable and am just hoping there's not any big problem with it, like damage to the frame or rims so rusted they're not even rideable. (The photos weren't great quality.) Although if that happened I'd probably have some recourse through eBay.
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