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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 05-10-18, 04:58 PM
  #16626  
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Very nice Veloman, I like that rack on the back, I've seen them a lot discarded at the local recycling centre, but always thought they were 60's/70's. Are they older than that? There's a good amount of greasy dirt protecting the important bits of the bike...should hopefully clean up well.

I visited a guy I'd been emailing about parts and picked up some nice bits and pieces I'd been looking for - an early fifties sturmey archer front drum, a philco rear brake, williams 5 pin cranks, and some really nice brake levers matched to the brakes. He also offered me a 30's bike with 28 x 1 3/8" (642mm) wheels for a price I couldn't refuse. Again, this would most likely have been built here in Australia with English tubing and parts. Yesterday on the way home I stopped at an antique shop that had 2 probably 50's Speedwells down the end of their lane, a ladies with a rear beautiful chrome westwood 26 x 1/12 wheel, and a mens roadster with front 28" painted westwood wheel in really good condition and some nice Williams cranks. Both for $40, so for parts these will be great, as the front westwood wheel I have for my existing Speedwell roadster is a bit iffy on the inside, possibly unsafe to use.
So the arrival of the 30's bike has decided for me the need to let go of the Papillionaire along with 3 other bikes I had already earmarked for sale. The 30's bike has a flip flop hub but I'll lace in a SA 3 speed or an S5 might be nice with the hills around here.
Almost forgot! The whole point of this story was to mention the woven fabric coated brake outer that came with the Sturmey front drum and lever. The steel outer is in good condition so I think I'll give the shoelace covering idea a go. (That Big Chief posted about a while back)

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Old 05-10-18, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
You probably already know these things, but I really like this project bike and can't resist talking about it. Here's a couple parts I see missing.
This is the correct lamp bracket for this period Raleigh. There are 4 different variants that I know of. You can't see in this picture, but this one mounts on the steering tube top like the more modern ones. Earlier versions bolted onto the handlebar clamp. This steering tube mounted, skinny neck heron is the one you would need.
Here's the frame mounted cable guide wheel that is original to this bike.
I see a couple of those guide wheels on ebay for not big money, but no sign of the lamp bracket. Anyone stumbling across a Rudge hand chainwheel for less than $25 I might be interested.

One favor to ask: Anyone with the 23-in Sports frame, what's the length of the top tube, center seat tube to center head tube? It's 22 inches on my Rudge; wondering if or by how much it goes up with the larger frame.

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Old 05-10-18, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by oldveloman
Thanks, Chief, glad you like it
Interesting stuff. Now I know what to look for.

I also found this blog that has some useful information on a similar bike too.

Peter
Another thing I'll pass along is my source for Raleigh taper cotters. He also sells an excellent cotter press and fixed cup removal tool.
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Old 05-10-18, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
One favor to ask: Anyone with the 23-in Sports frame, what's the length of the top tube, center seat tube to center head tube? It's 22 inches on my Rudge; wondering if or by how much it goes up with the larger frame.
I measure 21 3/4" on my mid-'70s 23" men's Sports. Need the measurement for the ladies' 23" also? That bike is more difficult to reach at the moment.
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Old 05-10-18, 07:30 PM
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Thanks for the recommendations folks. The Dutch bike rack looks really appealing. Perhaps when I install one the streets in my city will suddenly become more like Amsterdam.

Originally Posted by BigChief
@erileykc The DL-1 Tourist was a classic right to the bitter end in 1980. Unfortunately, it's tough to find parts for them. There's one place that makes custom rear carriers for them, but they're hand made so I don't expect they will be inexpensive
DL-1 rack
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Old 05-11-18, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
I measure 21 3/4" on my mid-'70s 23" men's Sports. Need the measurement for the ladies' 23" also? That bike is more difficult to reach at the moment.
Thanks! I'm good on the ladies' frame. (I didn't even know the step thru was made in the larger size.)
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Old 05-11-18, 05:56 AM
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Ah, found it. Here's a picture of 3 headlamp bracket variations. I don't know the timeline for these except that I have seen the skinny heron on pre 1955 Raleighs.

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Old 05-11-18, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Thanks! I'm good on the ladies' frame. (I didn't even know the step thru was made in the larger size.)
In case you need the info, the ladies' 23" also measures 21 3/4"
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Old 05-11-18, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by erileykc
Perhaps when I install one the streets in my city will suddenly become more like Amsterdam.
It may be starting small but it still sounds like a good plan.
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Old 05-11-18, 02:03 PM
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Ive had a pretty interesting early Spring this year and have finally been able to finish my first 3-speed project. I had a lot of help from a friend, but I also got a lot of info from members here - THANKS! Just when the weather was going to allow for some serious riding, I found out I had a pulmonary embolism and pneumonia. That certainly put the kibosh on doing the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour with my friend this weekend. Fortunately, the embolism has dissolved and the pneumonia has disappeared - now I just have to deal with the blood thinners for a few months. The bike is a conglomeration of parts I assembled from various sources: 1963 frame and 1965 everything else except the fork. I just hauled it out of my shop, and it rides great. I think I need to replace the shift cable (too short) and the brake pads (hard as a rock). Otherwise, it's good to go!
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Old 05-12-18, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Ah, found it. Here's a picture of 3 headlamp bracket variations. I don't know the timeline for these except that I have seen the skinny heron on pre 1955 Raleighs.
Thanks. I will keep this picture for reference. Not sure though if I will find a match over here, but it' s worth a try.

I had seen the bottom bracket tool in the link you posted too. Simple but ingenious

Peter
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Old 05-12-18, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ddeand
Ive had a pretty interesting early Spring this year and have finally been able to finish my first 3-speed project. I had a lot of help from a friend, but I also got a lot of info from members here - THANKS! Just when the weather was going to allow for some serious riding, I found out I had a pulmonary embolism and pneumonia. That certainly put the kibosh on doing the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour with my friend this weekend. Fortunately, the embolism has dissolved and the pneumonia has disappeared - now I just have to deal with the blood thinners for a few months. The bike is a conglomeration of parts I assembled from various sources: 1963 frame and 1965 everything else except the fork. I just hauled it out of my shop, and it rides great. I think I need to replace the shift cable (too short) and the brake pads (hard as a rock). Otherwise, it's good to go!
Looking good! Nice classic 60s roadster. Lately, I've been spending more than twice as much as the usual vintage style brake pads for Kool Stop Continentals. The cheap pads do work OK, but the Kool Stops actually do give you a bit more stopping power. Every bit helps with vintage brakes.
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Old 05-12-18, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ddeand
Ive had a pretty interesting early Spring this year and have finally been able to finish my first 3-speed project. I had a lot of help from a friend, but I also got a lot of info from members here - THANKS! Just when the weather was going to allow for some serious riding, I found out I had a pulmonary embolism and pneumonia. That certainly put the kibosh on doing the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour with my friend this weekend. Fortunately, the embolism has dissolved and the pneumonia has disappeared - now I just have to deal with the blood thinners for a few months. The bike is a conglomeration of parts I assembled from various sources: 1963 frame and 1965 everything else except the fork. I just hauled it out of my shop, and it rides great. I think I need to replace the shift cable (too short) and the brake pads (hard as a rock). Otherwise, it's good to go!
My recently acquired black Rudge is similar, but the smaller frame. I too find these bikes just fun and an easy riding experience; I'm not sure what produces that but I like it. Mine will require new rims, either Westwicks that are in smooth shape or CR18s. Haven't decided. That's a harrowing story about the lung problems. Must have led to some tense moments. Probably best to take it a little easy until you're sure your parts are as solid as the bike's.
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Old 05-12-18, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ddeand
the brake pads (hard as a rock). Otherwise, it's good to go!
Put some pads from Dia Compe called gray matter or #76s on a Sports five years ago and they've been good; still good, in fact. With the alloy CR18 rims they work well and they sure were not expensive.
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Old 05-12-18, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
I see a couple of those guide wheels on ebay for not big money, but no sign of the lamp bracket. Anyone stumbling across a Rudge hand chainwheel for less than $25 I might be interested.

One favor to ask: Anyone with the 23-in Sports frame, what's the length of the top tube, center seat tube to center head tube? It's 22 inches on my Rudge; wondering if or by how much it goes up with the larger frame.
I just saw a Rudge chainwheel literally an hour ago at a bike shop here in Toronto
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They might ship...
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Old 05-12-18, 06:18 PM
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Cool Raleigh alert for New Englanders. early post war gents Dawn Tourist in 23". I love bikes like this. Fresh find, needs help, not messed up, won't be expensive. Can't take on another project right now.

Dawn Tourist
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Old 05-12-18, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
I just saw a Rudge chainwheel literally an hour ago at a bike shop here in Toronto
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Thanks! I emailed to ask about it. What can it hurt?
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Old 05-12-18, 09:25 PM
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I was thinking (or whatever I do that approximates thinking) that salt is generally very hard on most materials. And I can't think of too many things that would soak up more salt than a leather bicycle saddle, especially one used on long rides in warm weather. Water itself isn't harmful to leather, AFAIK. Would it extend the life of a frequently ridden leather saddle if once or twice a year it got a soak in clear water for a few hours to leech out the salt? Let it dry naturally, then rub in some Proofide. I'm not going to ask Brooks because I figure they'd tell me to soak my head, not the saddle.
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Old 05-13-18, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
I was thinking (or whatever I do that approximates thinking) that salt is generally very hard on most materials. And I can't think of too many things that would soak up more salt than a leather bicycle saddle, especially one used on long rides in warm weather. Water itself isn't harmful to leather, AFAIK. Would it extend the life of a frequently ridden leather saddle if once or twice a year it got a soak in clear water for a few hours to leech out the salt? Let it dry naturally, then rub in some Proofide. I'm not going to ask Brooks because I figure they'd tell me to soak my head, not the saddle.
I wouldn't do it to a saddle in good shape.
However, an old dried out saddle can be revived with water.
Soak the saddle (submerge) in hot water for about 5 minutes,
pull it out and dry it off and then use some elastic bands
to re shape the sides.
Let it air dry for a couple of days and then treat with proof hide or mink oil etc.
I've done it to a couple of very old saddles that seemed beyond help and it works.
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Old 05-13-18, 05:47 AM
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Raleigh Tourist for sale in Hamilton, Ontario.
Seller is asking $450.00 but says it has a new saddle..
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...m_medium=email
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Old 05-13-18, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ddeand
Ive had a pretty interesting early Spring this year and have finally been able to finish my first 3-speed project. I had a lot of help from a friend, but I also got a lot of info from members here - THANKS! Just when the weather was going to allow for some serious riding, I found out I had a pulmonary embolism and pneumonia. That certainly put the kibosh on doing the Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour with my friend this weekend. Fortunately, the embolism has dissolved and the pneumonia has disappeared - now I just have to deal with the blood thinners for a few months. The bike is a conglomeration of parts I assembled from various sources: 1963 frame and 1965 everything else except the fork. I just hauled it out of my shop, and it rides great. I think I need to replace the shift cable (too short) and the brake pads (hard as a rock). Otherwise, it's good to go!
Is that the same bike I steered you towards for $50 was it? The NOS tires alone were worth twice that.I hope the health issues are on the up.Last winter sucked big time.
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Old 05-13-18, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
I'm not going to ask Brooks because I figure they'd tell me to soak my head, not the saddle.
With an annual regimen of a couple of light, well-rubbed coats of Proofhide on the top of your saddle, you can expect to get at least a couple of decades of year round riding. That's a decent return on your investment. Don't tension the saddle unless absolutely necessary, once you start down that road, the deformation accelerates. I put plastic bags over them when I have to leave my bikes out in the weather. Don't soak saddles in Neats foot oil, they'll go soft and their shape is ruined.
Leather's an organic material that will always break down but you can't really go wrong using the tried and true methods. I would never soak a useable saddle in water.
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Old 05-13-18, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
I wouldn't do it to a saddle in good shape.
However, an old dried out saddle can be revived with water.
Soak the saddle (submerge) in hot water for about 5 minutes,
pull it out and dry it off and then use some elastic bands
to re shape the sides.
Let it air dry for a couple of days and then treat with proof hide or mink oil etc.
I've done it to a couple of very old saddles that seemed beyond help and it works.
Yes, did this a few years ago with the pool table flat B-72 that came on my ladies Sports. Added laces to help it hold shape and foam underneath for some extra support. The cover finally tore at a rivet on the nose, but I got a year or so out of a saddle that looked finished otherwise. I think at the front rivet you can see the small tear, which eventually gave way.

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Old 05-13-18, 07:27 AM
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Seems a low price for a Tourist but I'm not a judge of condition.

https://us.letgo.com/en/i/raleigh-bi...4-1b68f19d432a
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Old 05-13-18, 07:55 AM
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Wow, another 23" Dawn Tourist. This one looks a little later than the other, but still early 50s. Replaced front wheel and , of course, grips. I like it!
edit: If the seller thinks it's from 1960, perhaps he's going by an AW hub date which would mean that the rear wheel is replaced also. The rim looks trashed anyway. So, might be missing both wheels, but still a great deal at $75.
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