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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 06-21-18, 07:28 AM
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That's a Thumpin good deal. Gents is the 22" frame. Right in your town. You are jumpin on the deal right? At least for the gents.
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Old 06-21-18, 07:57 AM
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wow I need to sit in the garage for awhile
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Old 06-21-18, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
That's a Thumpin good deal. Gents is the 22" frame. Right in your town. You are jumpin on the deal right? At least for the gents.
I have a 22" already, my bride is not interested in the other one and won't let me have a girlfriend who might want the other one, I don't really like Tourists for practical riding although I love what they represent, and we really don't have any more room for bicycles, even short-term storage for the time it would take to flip them. I'm just not a flipper at heart, more of a facilitator.

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Old 06-22-18, 03:57 PM
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A local friend of mine trash picked this 1980 lady's Sports and passed it on to me last night. It came with everything shown except the saddle, which I pulled from the bin.


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

I'm not sure I've ever had in my hands a Sports of such recent heritage! Some interesting features.

I like this style of chain guard, akin to the ones that were on early 60s bikes?


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

The gear cable pulley wheel is actually metal with a plastic hinged band clamp:


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

Weinmann alloy brake calipers and levers:


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

Nice braze-on cable guides:


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

Brazed in plate for the Pletscher rack:


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

A pretty small amount of rust on the chromed bits; must have been kept indoors for a good portion of the last 38 years:


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports

I'll clean it up and likely pass it along to a colleague. Updated pics when that happens.
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Old 06-22-18, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
A local friend of mine trash picked this 1980 lady's Sports and passed it on to me last night. It came with everything shown except the saddle, which I pulled from the bin.

I'm not sure I've ever had in my hands a Sports of such recent heritage! Some interesting features.

I like this style of chain guard, akin to the ones that were on early 60s bikes?


1980 21” lady’s Raleigh Sports
We have a couple 79s, one in pieces awaiting attention (23" same color scheme as yours) and one root beer brown 21" that I ride around Houston in the middle of the night. Two things about the later Sports bikes that bothered me. They put the cable wheel at the bottom of the seat tube on the mens frames, routing just like your 80 step-through, and when riding with just flat pedals, I caught the cable with my heel a couple times. Not a great catastrophe, but resulted in riding home in 3rd gear. Likewise the downward protrusion on the chain guard -- caught that a couple times and the sheet metal bends pretty easily. Toe clips and straps and putting the pulley at the top of the seat tube, where it should be on a diamond frame, in my opinion, and haven't hooked my heel in a couple years.

I like the Weinmann brakes better than the steel brakes on earlier bikes and the levers are, in my opinion, better than those self-adjustors that were on the Sports just before they shifted to the Weinmanns.

That's a really fine example you have -- pretty clean.
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Old 06-22-18, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
I like the Weinmann brakes better than the steel brakes on earlier bikes and the levers are, in my opinion, better than those self-adjustors that were on the Sports just before they shifted to the Weinmanns.
My brown 23" is older and has the steel brakes with the awful levers. A newer small ladies' bike with the alloy levers and Weinmann brakes is hanging next to it. Tempted to switch those parts out
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Old 06-22-18, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism
My brown 23" is older and has the steel brakes with the awful levers. A newer small ladies' bike with the alloy levers and Weinmann brakes is hanging next to it. Tempted to switch those parts out
The Weinmanns seem to work pretty well. I rember that back in the 70s I looked down my nose at the cheap side-pull Weinmann brakes and replaced them on the $70 bicycle I bought in Bad Munster when I brought it back to the US -- replaced with Weinmann center pulls, of course. I was on a budget. That was back in 72. I liked that bicycle and it taught me a couple things. That there were presta valves and 28" (aka 700c) tires and Simplex derailleurs. I have no idea of the brand or country of origin -- could have been Germany, Austria, Belgium, France. I don't remember where I got the box, but when I came back to the States I brought it on a Continental flight as checked baggage with no fee. But, those Weinmann side pulls really weren't that bad. The snobbery of youth, I guess.
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Old 06-23-18, 05:22 AM
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I'm very fond of the traditional Raleigh steel brake levers that were in use from the mid 30s all the way up to the unfortunate self adjusters in the early 70s. Sometime in the 60s, Raleigh did start using the cheaper 2 bolt type on some of the lesser non Raleigh branded bikes. I suppose they worked OK but the plating wasn't as nice, they just looked cheaper and the second bolt gets in the way of where I like to mount the trigger shifter. As far as braking power goes, unless you're limited by hand strength, I've found that the limiting factor is the amount of friction you get from two 2" brake pads on the rim. You can have more mechanical advantage or less in the system and you can more or less flex from the amount cable housing compression, but the overall braking performance ends up being similar.
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Old 06-23-18, 05:46 AM
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The death-throes of Raleigh

Originally Posted by desconhecido
We have a couple 79s, one in pieces awaiting attention (23" same color scheme as yours) and one root beer brown 21" that I ride around Houston in the middle of the night. Two things about the later Sports bikes that bothered me. They put the cable wheel at the bottom of the seat tube on the mens frames, routing just like your 80 step-through, and when riding with just flat pedals, I caught the cable with my heel a couple times. Not a great catastrophe, but resulted in riding home in 3rd gear. Likewise the downward protrusion on the chain guard -- caught that a couple times and the sheet metal bends pretty easily. Toe clips and straps and putting the pulley at the top of the seat tube, where it should be on a diamond frame, in my opinion, and haven't hooked my heel in a couple years.

I like the Weinmann brakes better than the steel brakes on earlier bikes and the levers are, in my opinion, better than those self-adjustors that were on the Sports just before they shifted to the Weinmanns.

That's a really fine example you have -- pretty clean.
This bike represents all that had gone wrong with Raleigh as a builder of quality bikes that lasted forever. For me working on these late 70s early 80s bikes is a depressing nightmare compared to the 40s, 50, and even 60s era bikes. The quality of steel has gone, the Al fittings, bolts, brakes, cables etc are cheap and nasty. The hope of competing on price tag with cheap imports was a stupid managerial strategic decision that destroyed so much of British manufacturing industry. Raleigh (along with thousands of other big and small British based bike-makers) went from a 600,000 bikes good solid bikes per year giant to nothing within a few short years after this model of bike was inflicted upon the world.
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Old 06-23-18, 06:57 AM
  #17060  
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Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti
wow I need to sit in the garage for awhile
You ok?
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Old 06-23-18, 07:01 AM
  #17061  
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I don’t think I have ever seen a blue Raleigh. I’m normally not a blue bike person, but that shade is rich. Nice friend.
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Old 06-23-18, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen
I don’t think I have ever seen a blue Raleigh.



Hey, you don't look at my posts?

Bike has since been cleaned up a bit but the paint is badly oxidized. This thing was pristine and gorgeous when I found it at a yard sale in the '90s on behalf of a neighbor who'd seen me riding my Sports and expressed her interest in one. $24. If I had not already committed to finding her a bike I'd have kept it. When her husband gave it to me 20 years later to get it out of their yard it was leaning up against their back fence in foot-deep snow and it looked like this.

This is the one with the alloy levers and calipers. I may actually wait until I'm reduced to riding my ladies' 23" Sports and put the alloy parts on that one.

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Old 06-23-18, 09:09 AM
  #17063  
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The very late Sports bikes differ in some ways from the earlier ones, including the paint schemes; paint colors offered; and component equipment. I think that someday there actually will be a niche market for the late Sports because it is so different. In some ways, they are a bit of an upgrade in the use of Weinmann aluminum components in some spots. In other ways, it's a downgrade in the use of a huge DOT reflector and loss of the white rear fender tip. But I could see people getting into these bikes because they're different from the more typical Sports from the late 1960s-mid 1970s. They certainly have enough quality to be cleaned up into nice bikes.
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Old 06-23-18, 10:45 AM
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27in wheel vs the 26 x 1 3/8

howdy - thinking about one these two CL bikes.
Raleigh with 26in x 1 3/8 wheels https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/b...609831568.html
Univega with 27in https://toledo.craigslist.org/bik/6622603468.html

I'm a bit more keen on the Raleigh. I thought I would ask for any feedback on the 26in wheel size. I figure with the 27in UNIVEGA, I could easily switch to 700c for more tire size options.
And another tire question: Will the 26 x 1 3/8 (ETRTO 590mm) work with ETRTO 584? Seems like CONTI offers lots in the 584mm, but nothing in the 590mm ETRTO.
They DO list a 37-584mm as "26 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2". Which makes me wonder if the other 584mm will work.

Any feedback is appreciated.

PS: Some additional info from Sheldon Brown that got me more confused: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/597.html - he mentions ETRTO 597mm -- not even on the CONTI tire site!!
-- and https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/590.html

Last edited by mrv; 06-23-18 at 10:54 AM. Reason: 597
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Old 06-23-18, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mrv
howdy - thinking about one these two CL bikes.
Raleigh with 26in x 1 3/8 wheels https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/b...609831568.html
Univega with 27in https://toledo.craigslist.org/bik/6622603468.html

I'm a bit more keen on the Raleigh. I thought I would ask for any feedback on the 26in wheel size. I figure with the 27in UNIVEGA, I could easily switch to 700c for more tire size options.
And another tire question: Will the 26 x 1 3/8 (ETRTO 590mm) work with ETRTO 584? Seems like CONTI offers lots in the 584mm, but nothing in the 590mm ETRTO.
They DO list a 37-584mm as "26 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2". Which makes me wonder if the other 584mm will work.

Any feedback is appreciated.

PS: Some additional info from Sheldon Brown that got me more confused: Schwinn 26 x 1 3/8" / English 26 x 1 1/4 EA.1 Bicycle Tires from Harris Cyclery (ISO/E.T.R.T.O. 597 mm) - he mentions ETRTO 597mm -- not even on the CONTI tire site!!
-- and 26 x 1 3/8 inch (590 mm) Bicycle Tires from Harris Cyclery
Nope. 590/597/584 are all different and not interchangeable. There are some tires with the 597 bead that carry the 26 x 1 3/8" markings just to mess you up. They are usually marked EA1 which indicates the larger 597. These are also the Schwinn S-6 size.

Conti does make a City Ride tire in the 590 mm. I have a pair.
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Old 06-23-18, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Nope. 590/597/584 are all different and not interchangeable. There are some tires with the 597 bead that carry the 26 x 1 3/8" markings just to mess you up. They are usually marked EA1 which indicates the larger 597. These are also the Schwinn S-6 size.

Conti does make a City Ride tire in the 590 mm. I have a pair.
- you confirmed what I was thinking. Looking at the Conti page, they didn't show it. But they are not showing everything, of course. Also good info! https://www.continental-tires.com/bi...trekking-tires
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Old 06-23-18, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
howdy - thinking about one these two CL bikes.
Raleigh with 26in x 1 3/8 wheels https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/b...609831568.html
Univega with 27in https://toledo.craigslist.org/bik/6622603468.html

I'm a bit more keen on the Raleigh. I thought I would ask for any feedback on the 26in wheel size. I figure with the 27in UNIVEGA, I could easily switch to 700c for more tire size options.
And another tire question: Will the 26 x 1 3/8 (ETRTO 590mm) work with ETRTO 584? Seems like CONTI offers lots in the 584mm, but nothing in the 590mm ETRTO.
They DO list a 37-584mm as "26 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2". Which makes me wonder if the other 584mm will work.

Any feedback is appreciated.

PS: Some additional info from Sheldon Brown that got me more confused: Schwinn 26 x 1 3/8" / English 26 x 1 1/4 EA.1 Bicycle Tires from Harris Cyclery (ISO/E.T.R.T.O. 597 mm) - he mentions ETRTO 597mm -- not even on the CONTI tire site!!
-- and 26 x 1 3/8 inch (590 mm) Bicycle Tires from Harris Cyclery
The tire of choice for the 26 1 3/8 (590mm) seems to be the Panaracer Col De La Vie. There are other options including Kenda, Schwalbe, Michelin. Kenda, et al, are pretty inexpensive and people report that they are decent servicable tires. The Schwalbes are a bit hard to find in the size, are difficult to mount, but last a long time and have excellent flat resistance. The Panaracers are pretty cushy and a bit fatter, i think, than the typical 650A tire.

As for which bike, in all honesty, the Univega is probably a better bike and even though 27" tires are sort of obsolete, you have better choices than with the 650A 590 mm. It looks like a Shimano three speed rather than SA. I don't know if that's good or bad. Neither of these bikes has a saddle that I'd like to spend a lot of time on, but the Raleigh, Jeez, I don't think I could ride one of those saddles for more than a couple miles. I surely wouldn't do it more than once. With the Univega, you'd be able to budget in a decent, to your liking, saddle.

All that being said, I'd probably buy the Raleigh. Rex Tillerson probably has a term for people like me.

edit: I just looked at the Modern Bike site and they have a selection of 590, 650A tires including the Contis and the Schwalbes. The Schwalbes I have used are the Marathon Plus, not the Delta Cruiser. Don't know anything about the Delta Cruiser tires as far as ride or durability, but they're inexpensive compared to the Marathon Plus.

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Old 06-23-18, 04:19 PM
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597 mm diameter rims are often referred to as British Lightweight Sprint 26 x 1 1\4 inch rims - go figure. A 26 x 1 3\8 (590mm) won't fit - obviously it's 7 mm too narrow in diameter. The 597mm was usually narrower wall to wall and lighter. As such a favourite track configuration. They are nice wheels and usually have thinner spokes and lightweight hubs. 27 inch are 630 mm in diameter and were the size of choice for road racing bikes up until the 1970s. Tires are available for all of these sizes for less than 20/30 bucks. Go on the net and scope down on the metric dimension as it is precisely what it says on the tin and void of Imperial eccentricities .

Just when you thought it couldn't be more confusing - just this very day I was doing the final touch on a Holdsworth Avanti that was equipped with a full Campag Record goupo. I mounted the rear wheel to discover the rear triangle was made to take a 28 inch wheel. WTF!!!!. A extremely lightweight Reynolds tubed racing bike with 28 x 1 x 1 1\2 inch rim??!!! (635mm needless to say)

I have no faith that 635mm road tires have ever existed - but there you go.

The nightmare continues.

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Old 06-23-18, 06:09 PM
  #17069  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
Hey...
​​​​​​I test ride this 26 inch Raleigh. But it feels very small...i m 5'8". Feels wierd with hand next to knees.
Is it normal these English bike to feel small. Like my knees where close to the stem. But it rode very good though. Very upright. Turns good. Very manuvereable. Didn't buy it. SA3 hub was a little loose. Should I go back. Price reasonable.​​​​​​ Not sure where it's made...Taiwan maybe?

​​​​​​
That looks to be a rather small frame. The English light roadsters come in 19 1/2", 21"and 23" for the stepthroughs and 21" and 23" for the gents. Maybe you should try a taller frame and see what you think of it.
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Old 06-23-18, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
does the bigger size have longer ETT, REACH?
I believe both my M23" and L23" Sportses have 23 1/4" top tube lengths. I can also measure my L19" if you need it.
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Old 06-23-18, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Johno59
597 mm diameter rims are often referred to as British Lightweight Sprint 26 x 1 1\4 inch rims - go figure. A 26 x 1 3\8 (590mm) won't fit - obviously it's 7 mm too narrow in diameter. The 597mm was usually narrower wall to wall and lighter. As such a favourite track configuration. They are nice wheels and usually have thinner spokes and lightweight hubs. 27 inch are 630 mm in diameter and were the size of choice for road racing bikes up until the 1970s. Tires are available for all of these sizes for less than 20/30 bucks. Go on the net and scope down on the metric dimension as it is precisely what it says on the tin and void of Imperial eccentricities .

Just when you thought it couldn't be more confusing - just this very day I was doing the final touch on a Holdsworth Avanti that was equipped with a full Campag Record goupo. I mounted the rear wheel to discover the rear triangle was made to take a 28 inch wheel. WTF!!!!. A extremely lightweight Reynolds tubed racing bike with 28 x 1 x 1 1\2 inch rim??!!! (635mm needless to say)

I have no faith that 635mm road tires have ever existed - but there you go.

The nightmare continues.
Don't confuse the 26 x 1 1/4 'Sprints' with proper Sprint rims, which are 700c size and used for track pruposes. The former were a club bike size, almost always for sporting road riding.

England made more 28 inch rims than you think.

I've posted this Dunlop chart often but it's useful to compare the different Canadian sizes with the range of English standards. Just looking at the 'To Fit Rim' column for reference, the 77.0 inch bead is an F13 rim which is the equivalent to a 700c. There are 4 British sizes larger than that, the normal 27 inch (K2) and the 635 mm roadster (F10). That leaves two other larger Endrick narrow rims, the EA2 and EA4, one of which is 647 mm. I have one mounted on a rim from the 1930's. Too bad it's now petrified rubber.
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Old 06-23-18, 08:07 PM
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@mtb_addict The older English made bikes use a rather odd 15/16" handlebar so a modern 1" bar won't fit. However, any 22.2 stem will fit the fork. So if you replace the quill stem, you would have a world of choices for bar shape and stem reach to customize the bike to suit your preference. On this Rudge, I fit a longer 22.2mm stem with more reach and a 1" clamp and used a shim so I could keep the original 15/16" North Roads.

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Old 06-23-18, 09:11 PM
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The Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show has been re-scheduled to July 8 because of weather conditions.
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Old 06-23-18, 09:30 PM
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A couple rides on the DL-1 Export and the Twenty folder.



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Old 06-23-18, 09:37 PM
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Have a new project, though it is on the back burner. Is anyone familiar with Phillips Birmingham serial numbers? I am thinking this is a 1930s-era bike.

This bike has a single speed hub with no date code, and a fat barrel front hub (again with no date code). Serial number is on the top of the bottom bracket and has gothic type numbers. Has no headbadge, but instead has a Phillips Birmingham transfer. Fork has a transfers Phillips "Guaranteed All British Fork". Partially plated, partially black-out parts. "Phillips" spelled-out on the chainring. Heavy-duty, very plain lugs with no embellishment at all (square cut ends). Rear drop stand and rack are a single integral part bolt to the back axle. Gallows seat post; side-mounted rod for rear brakes; missing a pump peg but the one that's left is a spring-loaded thing.

Sorry I don't have complete pictures - project is in pieces in my shed.

I do have one picture from the seller of this bike all together:


Closer pics:








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