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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 06-23-18, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Don't confuse the 26 x 1 1/4 'Sprints' with proper Sprint rims, which are 700c size and used for track pruposes. The former were a club bike size, almost always for sporting road riding.

England made more 28 inch rims than you think.

I've posted this Dunlop chart often but it's useful to compare the different Canadian sizes with the range of English standards. Just looking at the 'To Fit Rim' column for reference, the 77.0 inch bead is an F13 rim which is the equivalent to a 700c. There are 4 British sizes larger than that, the normal 27 inch (K2) and the 635 mm roadster (F10). That leaves two other larger Endrick narrow rims, the EA2 and EA4, one of which is 647 mm. I have one mounted on a rim from the 1930's. Too bad it's now petrified rubber.
Handy chart to have as a screenshot whilst lying awake staring at the ceiling!

I understand the logic behind the bigger Ds for roadsters but I can't fathom why a 30-40 mm wide wagon wheel tire on a pencil-stayed, dropped-bar lightweight racing bike. The wide tire simply won't fit as the clearance where the chain-stays and the bottom bracket come together is too narrow (I guess). Obviously they must have made 25 -30 mm (1 - 1 1/4 inch) wide tires at 28 inch (635mm).
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Old 06-24-18, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
Have a new project, though it is on the back burner. Is anyone familiar with Phillips Birmingham serial numbers? I am thinking this is a 1930s-era bike.

This bike has a single speed hub with no date code, and a fat barrel front hub (again with no date code). Serial number is on the top of the bottom bracket and has gothic type numbers. Has no headbadge, but instead has a Phillips Birmingham transfer. Fork has a transfers Phillips "Guaranteed All British Fork". Partially plated, partially black-out parts. "Phillips" spelled-out on the chainring. Heavy-duty, very plain lugs with no embellishment at all (square cut ends). Rear drop stand and rack are a single integral part bolt to the back axle. Gallows seat post; side-mounted rod for rear brakes; missing a pump peg but the one that's left is a spring-loaded thing.

Sorry I don't have complete pictures - project is in pieces in my shed.

I do have one picture from the seller of this bike all together:


Closer pics:








Wow, Great bike. Not a whole lot of information out there, but the VCC has a 1939 catalog and a 1939 parts catalog in it's library. I see this is either the Gents P9 Roadmaster or the Gents P 11 Roadmaster Tourist model.
VCC 1939 Phillips Catalog
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Old 06-24-18, 05:53 AM
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1962 Raleigh Superbe w/ key.
For sale here in Toronto @ $280.
Not for me...




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Old 06-24-18, 06:15 AM
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The bolt on seatstay suggests early 1930s rather than later 1930s. The bolt-on was an expensive design and even the top of the range Sunbeam had gone fully braised lugs by the late 1930s owing to the cost and lesser rigidity. The seat and one speed also suggests an older model.
A historical aside was the Phillips was the basic design of the Chicom copy the Viet Mihn /Viet Cong/PAVN deployed as their logistic workhorse.They regularly carried 150 kgs of supplies for months on end from Hanoi to the Delta

They were reinforced with struts on the front forks and across the frame triangle so as to take enormous loads.

.
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Old 06-24-18, 10:03 AM
  #17080  
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Excessive bearing play can be adjusted out, as with most hubs. That's a coaster brake 3-speed; not my favorite Sturmey hub but that's just my own preference
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Old 06-24-18, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict




i went home and pay careful attention to the stem position relative to my knees on my modern road bike.
and this relative position is actually similar to this red Raleigh Sport that I test rode.
so maybe the sizing of this Sport is fine for me. After sleeping on it, i really like the nimble feel.
I had a large Dutch bike, and at low speed, it is like a drunken sailor.
But this Sport felt much better, comparison. i wonder if it is due to the smaller 26 wheel of this Sport.

another thing is the 3speed hub. i detect some looseness. i hold the rim, and wiggle it left and right...there was some freeplay. is this mean the hub needs replacement?

The frame is in great shape...no sign of rust anywhere. the paint is great...but there is no shine, completely dull.
is this normal for paint to loose the shine ?

there was only tiny speckle of brown spot on the chrome bits.

thr seller wants $100. what do you think...worth it? or keep looking?





There SHOULD be a small amount of play in the hub.
A lot of inexperienced mechanics tighten them up to the point of causing serious internal damage.
Case in point:
A serious mangled sun gear due to over tightening..

A healthy one below.



$100.00 sounds good and often old paint can be buffed or leave as is.
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Old 06-24-18, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict




i went home and pay careful attention to the stem position relative to my knees on my modern road bike.
and this relative position is actually similar to this red Raleigh Sport that I test rode.
so maybe the sizing of this Sport is fine for me. After sleeping on it, i really like the nimble feel.
I had a large Dutch bike, and at low speed, it is like a drunken sailor.
But this Sport felt much better, comparison. i wonder if it is due to the smaller 26 wheel of this Sport.

another thing is the 3speed hub. i detect some looseness. i hold the rim, and wiggle it left and right...there was some freeplay. is this mean the hub needs replacement?

The frame is in great shape...no sign of rust anywhere. the paint is great...but there is no shine, completely dull.
is this normal for paint to loose the shine ?

there was only tiny speckle of brown spot on the chrome bits.

thr seller wants $100. what do you think...worth it? or keep looking?





Well, I'm not an unbiased opinion. The red bike may be perfectly fine, but in my mind only English made roadsters are the real deal. Even then, I prefer them from the mid 60s or earlier. But like I say, this is only opinion, but I would seek out a British model with a Sturmey Archer AW hub (non coaster brake) 3 speed. There's plenty around.
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Old 06-24-18, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
1962 Raleigh Superbe w/ key.
For sale here in Toronto @ $280.
Not for me...




That's something different. I like it, but I am safely a long distance and an international border safe from it. Is it a smaller bike, 19 1/2" or something? Looks kind of like a Colt with the key and Dynohub added to make it a Superbe. Truly a Super Bee. Wonder if it was a Canadian market model or for all of N.A.
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Old 06-24-18, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Well, I'm not an unbiased opinion. The red bike may be perfectly fine, but in my mind only English made roadsters are the real deal. Even then, I prefer them from the mid 60s or earlier. But like I say, this is only opinion, but I would seek out a British model with a Sturmey Archer AW hub (non coaster brake) 3 speed. There's plenty around.
If you do get one with a coaster brake, there are plenty of surplus AWs around to replace them with. I think you can even find NOS AW hubs at a decent price
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Old 06-24-18, 01:34 PM
  #17085  
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I'm selling two 3-speeds that I've blogged about on the Bike Shed Blog, here in the northern Virginia area: the maroon Schwinn New World 3-speed and a ladies black New World 3-speed. Check the sales forum or message me if you're interested.



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Old 06-24-18, 04:04 PM
  #17086  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
That's something different. I like it, but I am safely a long distance and an international border safe from it. Is it a smaller bike, 19 1/2" or something? Looks kind of like a Colt with the key and Dynohub added to make it a Superbe. Truly a Super Bee. Wonder if it was a Canadian market model or for all of N.A.
The Canadians got all the Superbes with fancy colors and chrome fork socks. Here, you could get any color Superbe you wanted...as long as it was bronze green.
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Old 06-24-18, 06:44 PM
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just wanted to say, i took a trip to minneapolis this weekend and met "johnny spagetti" aka bill and his significant other. 2 very cool people who live in an amazing house in a cool neighborhood. also bill is a wizard with his old bikes. beautiful stuff!
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Old 06-25-18, 03:37 AM
  #17088  
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Originally Posted by BigChief
The Canadians got all the Superbes with fancy colors and chrome fork socks. Here, you could get any color Superbe you wanted...as long as it was bronze green.
Agreed. The white paint on the steering tube indicates a Canadian model.
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Old 06-25-18, 05:38 AM
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This one showed up this weekend. Nothing special and it looks like the the fit has been customized.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...625373685.html

Vintage Bicycle 21" - $90 (Carytown)



condition: good
make / manufacturer: Royal
Vintage English bicycle
Brand: Royal
single speed - 21" frame

Let us know if you are interested.
Thank you and have a nice day!
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Old 06-25-18, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
I bought the red Raliegh Sport home. It can barely make out the label on the frame with the word Taiwan underneath a cable clamp.
The wheel size is 26x1-3/8 (590mm).
The hub is AWC 3 speed with coaster braking.

The AWC hub looks very dirty with grease oozing out. Should I try to take it apart and clean it up?
I have never open up a 3 speed hub before.

So, where do I find NOS AW hubs?
I'd first see how well that hub works, both in terms of shifting and braking. If all is functional, I'd just clean it up and leave it alone. Nothing wrong with coaster brakes, particularly if you want to work on your skidding technique! If you need to overhaul it, there are plenty of YouTube videos and online tech docs. Or you might just flush it with mineral spirits through the oiler hole (which will be messy, so don't do that on your Persian rug), let it dry out, and then add a few drops of 5w30 motor oil.
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Old 06-25-18, 11:31 AM
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The hub may not need anything beyond a few drops of oil. These tend to be very reliable hubs. 95% of the time, shifting problems can be corrected with a simple cable adjustment. Before, you mentioned wheel bearing play in the rear wheel. With the wheel tightened in the frame, you do want to feel some play as you shake the rim. If you feel the play is excessive, adjust the cone on the left side.

Last edited by BigChief; 06-25-18 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 06-25-18, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
I bought the red Raliegh Sport home. I can barely make out the label on the frame with the word Taiwan underneath a cable clamp.
The wheel size is 26x1-3/8 .
The hub is AWC 3 speed with coaster braking.

The AWC hub looks very dirty with grease oozing out. Should I try to take it apart and clean it up?
I have never open up a 3 speed hub before.

So, where do I find NOS AW hubs?
They turn up on ebay from time to time. A couple years ago, the bikestand had one or more NOS AW hubs for sale. Turned out only in 40h and at the time I needed a 36 hole hub. Seemed like a nice guy and if I were looking for a 40h NOS AW, I'd see if he has one. Or a good used one. SJS has NOS AW3 hubs with 28h -- wouldn't that be fun?
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Old 06-25-18, 12:49 PM
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I'd be surprised if they were NOS. They're still made.
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Old 06-25-18, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse
I'd be surprised if they were NOS. They're still made.
I don't know. This is what SJS says about the AW3 hubs:

"1980's Sturmey Archer AW3 3 speed freewheel hub. NOS = New old stock. Please note that these hubs may feature dents and/or scratches. Although this may affect the product cosmetically, it does not affect the performance, hence the bargain price. "
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Old 06-25-18, 05:29 PM
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Here's the page in question https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-int...r-28-hole-nos/

They do look to be genuinely NOS, colour me surprised as they also have brand new ones in stock. They've also a few other NOS bits like 80s rectangular dynohub headlights. Don't buy one of those though, they're crap.
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Old 06-25-18, 05:44 PM
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Well the ratios are 0.75, 1, and 1.33 no matter what, so it all depends on your Chainring and rear sprocket. i ballparked 46/18 and got 36, 48, and 64 gear inches. approximately of course, i can't be bothered copy pasting the entire figure. have a play around with sheldon's gear calculator and see what you like.
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Old 06-25-18, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
This hub shifts fine on all 3 speeds. But I hear clicking noise when pedaling.
Chain is bone dry. Not sure if the noise is from the hub or the chain. I will stop by the bike store for a new chain tonight.

I don't see any way to add oil into this hub. Is this hub run on grease instead of oil?
that particular model leaks really well. its always dirty. they do work pretty well though.
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Old 06-25-18, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse
Here's the page in question https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hubs-int...r-28-hole-nos/

They do look to be genuinely NOS, colour me surprised as they also have brand new ones in stock. They've also a few other NOS bits like 80s rectangular dynohub headlights. Don't buy one of those though, they're crap.
They're out there
NOS 1953
I've got 3 of these....


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Old 06-25-18, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
They're out there
NOS 1953
I've got 3 of these....


Wow! What a great find. I came up with a couple early unused 3 or 4 speed shifters and guide wheels a while ago at an estate auction, but no sign of the hubs. In truth, AW hubs are tanks. NOS is great, but most used ones you find are more than serviceable. A good clean up and new bearings is all they need.
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Old 06-25-18, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
I'm selling two 3-speeds that I've blogged about on the Bike Shed Blog, here in the northern Virginia area: the maroon Schwinn New World 3-speed and a ladies black New World 3-speed. Check the sales forum or message me if you're interested.



The maroon New World is so nice!
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