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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 06-26-18, 06:25 AM
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I gave the 1948 Rudge a bit of fresh air the other night. This is on the National cycle route #7 .
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Old 06-26-18, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
I took the chain off, and found out the bottom bracket bearings on my Taiwan Raleigh feels like it is grinding sand and has no grease.
What do I do? After I remove the cotter pin crank. I will probably need a need BB.
I've never worked on this type of bike, but it is typical for bikes this old to have dried up BB. More than likely, just taking it apart, cleaning and replacing the ball bearings will put it right. On regular Raleighs, I never bother removing the fixed cup for a regular BB servicing.
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Old 06-26-18, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
I've never worked on this type of bike, but it is typical for bikes this old to have dried up BB. More than likely, just taking it apart, cleaning and replacing the ball bearings will put it right. On regular Raleighs, I never bother removing the fixed cup for a regular BB servicing.
I know you don't need to, but it gives me an uncomfortable feeling to know that the threads on the fixed cup have not been recently greased. Also, I don't think I could sleep at night with the uncertainty about whether the fixed cup is stuck or not. As long as I'm making sure it's not stuck, I just go ahead and remove it all the way so I can grease the threads. I know this sounds silly, but how else can I explain my compulsion to remove the fixed cup every time I service a cup and cone bottom bracket?
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Old 06-26-18, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
I know you don't need to, but it gives me an uncomfortable feeling to know that the threads on the fixed cup have not been recently greased. Also, I don't think I could sleep at night with the uncertainty about whether the fixed cup is stuck or not. As long as I'm making sure it's not stuck, I just go ahead and remove it all the way so I can grease the threads. I know this sounds silly, but how else can I explain my compulsion to remove the fixed cup every time I service a cup and cone bottom bracket?
It's just that they are such a bear to remove. At least now I have one of the Bike Smith tools. They are wonderful for this job. But even then, since I put so much torque on the tool, I prefer to have the bike stripped down to just the frame on my workbench. I support the frame under the head tube and above the seat tube to resist the clockwise torque on the BB. But that's just me. I don't like the idea of doing this operation with the bike in the stand and wheels on the ground. That's a lot of pressure to put on the fork legs and the steering tube. For a regular servicing, it's just so much easier to clean the fixed cup with a rag and stick.
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Last edited by BigChief; 06-26-18 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 06-26-18, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IEthatsME


I gave the 1948 Rudge a bit of fresh air the other night. This is on the National cycle route #7 .
What a beautiful sight. Can't help but think of the original owner and wonder what they would think of this bike being ridden down this pristine bike path 70 years later.
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Old 06-26-18, 10:35 PM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELSIS-19...IAAOSwGXtXhp9a

Here's an "Excelsis" on Ebay that looks like it has a great patina and potential - especially for the price! It'd be mine if it were a 23" frame.

-Gregory

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Old 06-27-18, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
It's just that they are such a bear to remove. At least now I have one of the Bike Smith tools. They are wonderful for this job. But even then, since I put so much torque on the tool, I prefer to have the bike stripped down to just the frame on my workbench. I support the frame under the head tube and above the seat tube to resist the clockwise torque on the BB. But that's just me. I don't like the idea of doing this operation with the bike in the stand and wheels on the ground. That's a lot of pressure to put on the fork legs and the steering tube. For a regular servicing, it's just so much easier to clean the fixed cup with a rag and stick.
Remember the thread direction is the reverse of the drive-side bearing cup. It's called the fixed side for good reason. If you really need to remove it and don't mind the paint-work put some heat on the BB shell before you try.
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Old 06-27-18, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
What a beautiful sight. Can't help but think of the original owner and wonder what they would think of this bike being ridden down this pristine bike path 70 years later.
I wonder that myself when I'm out and about on it. I'm sure it could tell some stories. I also wonder where my bikes will be in 70 years time; hopefully being preserved and still being ridden.
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Old 06-27-18, 08:29 AM
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It's always good to reuse the old cotters if you can. That way you know they'll fit and the crank arms will line up properly. Not always the case with new cotters. Sometimes, you have to file them before they work correctly.
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Old 06-27-18, 10:16 AM
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You don't need to take it apart. I just lay the bike on the side away from the indicator chain and dribble oil onto the chain where it will drain into the hub.
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Old 06-27-18, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
@thumpism
That's brilliant. The more I know these bikes, the more I'm impressed by British engineering!
Don't be. It's really often not very good, although mostly better than anything seppos can manage, still worse than Japanese or now Chinese design. Putting oil in through the hollow axle is a feature come about by pure accident, and I know some jobsworth looked at it and went "drop the oil port! You'll save us 3p a unit!"
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Old 06-27-18, 03:05 PM
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That's brilliant. The more I know these bikes, the more I'm impressed by British engineering!
It was brilliant at the time. So much so that we still value Sturmey Archer hubs today. In the bicycle industry English engineering has been surpassed. I don't think English engineers and entrepreneurs are getting too worked up about bicycles anymore. Too bad.
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Old 06-27-18, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
It was brilliant at the time. So much so that we still value Sturmey Archer hubs today. In the bicycle industry English engineering has been surpassed. I don't think English engineers and entrepreneurs are getting too worked up about bicycles anymore. Too bad.
It was brilliant. Even today, there's nothing like them. High quality, pure class. Things did start to decline by the late 1960s and by the 70s the industry really began to fall apart. Nobody was seriously interested in investing money in British bicycle plants since they all knew the comparative advantage was in the far east. The facilities in GB were milked until the last penny and forgotten. As sad and unfortunate this was for the workers, there is an upside for us lovers of classic roadster style bicycles today. Since no real effort or money was dedicated for updating production of their 3 speed roadsters, the older tooling and methods were still in use up to the bitter end in 1980. True, quality declined, foolish cost cutting and a few poorly thought out design changes did occur, but for the most part, these are still basically 1930s style bikes. Most of the problems with them can be fixed and they are still beautiful, practical bikes. We would have far fewer of them today if real money had been invested in updating the old factories.
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Old 06-27-18, 08:09 PM
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I've owned a few English 3 speeds including a nice '63 Raleigh Sport. Always liked the style. I cobbled together this pile of parts as a tribute to them.

It's basically a Taiwanese frame, German fenders, one Italian wheel and one Japanese wheel, with obsolete Japanese components, but it rides nice, with 6 speed Suntour accushift. Needs one of those leather seatbags.
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Old 06-28-18, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict
What kind of grease do I use for the bearings and coaster brake pads?
I have a tube of red wheel bearing grease from Walmart. Okay?

What kind of oil do I use for the gears?
I have some 5w30 motor oil and some chainsaw oil
Many of us use the BLUE 3 in 1 oil in the hub.
A teaspoon in a fresh/dry rebuild and then a couple of drops every couple
of months or so.
I use a blue marine grease in the bearings etc.
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Old 06-28-18, 05:11 AM
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I've always used that blue marine grease on all my bicycle bearings because most of the damage I've come across over the years has been from moisture. The manufacturers claim it has a moisture resistance advantage over other grease. I take them for their word. For a coaster brake, maybe the red heat resistant grease might be better. Not that I can say if a coaster brake generates enough heat to need it. Just a thought.
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Old 06-28-18, 05:54 AM
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Quality of the steel billets.

Originally Posted by mtb_addict
What kind of grease do I use for the bearings and coaster brake pads?
I have a tube of red wheel bearing grease from Walmart. Okay?

What kind of oil do I use for the gears?
I have some 5w30 motor oil and some chainsaw oil
My 1934 Raleigh, up until 2 months ago, had not moved since 1945. The old Chrome plated steel rims had literally dissolved to nothing on the bottom where they had sat on a flat tire in a damp wooden garage .The chain was a solid one piece of rust wrapped around the rear sprocket and the chainring.
I broke thetchain apart , cut the hub out of the wheel and squirted some WD 40 down the filler and the indicator port. Left it overnight, extracted the rusted-stiff indicator , turned the slightly stiff sproket a few times, hand-spun them up for 10 minutes over the next week, laced it into a new wheel put in a table spoon of gear oil and I now commute 20 miles on it.
A retired bike mechanic suggested it was the quality of the raw steel and the high content of chromium added in the foundary that kept the mechical wear and tear to a minimum. Same for the frame as well.

This it now.
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Old 06-28-18, 06:30 AM
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Now, that's a hardcore reclamation project!
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Old 06-28-18, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Johno59
My 1934 Raleigh, up until 2 months ago, had not moved since 1945. The old Chrome plated steel rims had literally dissolved to nothing on the bottom where they had sat on a flat tire in a damp wooden garage .The chain was a solid one piece of rust wrapped around the rear sprocket and the chainring.
I broke thetchain apart , cut the hub out of the wheel and squirted some WD 40 down the filler and the indicator port. Left it overnight, extracted the rusted-stiff indicator , turned the slightly stiff sproket a few times, hand-spun them up for 10 minutes over the next week, laced it into a new wheel put in a table spoon of gear oil and I now commute 20 miles on it.
A retired bike mechanic suggested it was the quality of the raw steel and the high content of chromium added in the foundary that kept the mechical wear and tear to a minimum. Same for the frame as well.

This it now.
OTOH I have restored British bikes made from the 70s and 80s and everything is rusted solid. It doesn't matter if high end or the cheapest dept store brands. The lack of quality make's them a nightmare to restore. The inbuilt redundancy/obsolescence flares up within every aspect of the bicycle- frame, hubs, rims, groupset, electrics (a real disgrace), accessories etc with the exception of a Brooks saddle they appear to be from another planet than the 30s, 40s etc.
Certainly some have extraordinary performance parameters when new but what pro-team rides a British made bike? Besides, as always, the bikes the pros do ride are custom made to an uattainable spec for Joe public.
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Old 06-28-18, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Johno59
My 1934 Raleigh, up until 2 months ago, had not moved since 1945. The old Chrome plated steel rims had literally dissolved to nothing on the bottom where they had sat on a flat tire in a damp wooden garage .The chain was a solid one piece of rust wrapped around the rear sprocket and the chainring.
<-------->
This it now.
Quite a transformation, and I'm sure any one of us would be proud to own.
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Old 06-28-18, 01:06 PM
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When rode this morning I heard a disturbing sound! I heard a jingle-jangle of a lost wheel!
Originally Posted by mtb_addict
I hope my '89 Taiwan Raleigh is better made built than those Johno59 described.
Essentially the bikes are all very similar to ride. It is the amount of effort required to restore the lesser quality made bike. More sweat and patience gives very similar end results so the fact this is a hobby and not a business - it doesn't resllr stack up to a whole lot of beans.
One thing the better made components all fit the 70s - 80s bikes.
I still have the original rear wheel from my 1934 Raleigh.


Pump it!

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Old 06-28-18, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Johno59
I still have the original rear wheel from my 1934 Raleigh.
So that's where BigChief gets his tag from. I thought he was just giving advice.
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Old 06-28-18, 03:15 PM
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You had to use your thumb.
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Old 06-28-18, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
You had to use your thumb.
I do. If it doesn't feel hard, I then pump the tire up to spec using my track pump that has a gauge.
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Old 06-28-18, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ballenxj
I do. If it doesn't feel hard, I then pump the tire up to spec using my track pump that has a gauge.
Cheater! You gotta get your thumb calibrated.

.
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