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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 07-18-18, 10:08 AM
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New poster here with <10 post count. It's really hard to reply to posts since almost all on this thread contain a URL! Anyways, have recently added a 1980 ladies Raleigh Superbe and (coincidentally) a 1980 gent's Raleigh Tourist to the mix. This thread has been invaluable.

Please be kind when I post seemingly random comments to try to break the 10-post barrier.

Larry
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Old 07-18-18, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
There seem to be a bunch of newer converts on this thread! Here are some tips that will help the ridability of any British 3-speed....
Thanks, Salubrious! It's been about 48 years since I last owned a Brit 3-speed!
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Old 07-18-18, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence_S
Thanks, Salubrious! It's been about 48 years since I last owned a Brit 3-speed!
If you are just getting into 3-speeds, you might want to look at another thread:
What Tools to Work on 3-Speeds?
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Old 07-18-18, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious
If you are just getting into 3-speeds, you might want to look at another thread:
After 50 years of collecting various specialty tools I get to add to the pile! I like that. Thanks for the link.
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Old 07-18-18, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence_S

Please be kind when I post seemingly random comments to try to break the 10-post barrier.

Larry
Bike forums is usually a pretty nice place and this thread is about as nice as it gets. Been reading it since 2010 (with gaps) and I don't recall anybody getting snarky or judgmental. Even those of us with some 60 grit edges seem well behaved.
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Old 07-18-18, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Bike forums is usually a pretty nice place and this thread is about as nice as it gets. Been reading it since 2010 (with gaps) and I don't recall anybody getting snarky or judgmental. Even those of us with some 60 grit edges seem well behaved.
I noticed the exact same thing desconheicido. Not always the case on internet fora. I've lurked for awhile and it seems a very civilized place.
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Old 07-18-18, 12:55 PM
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Hey lovely 3 speed lovers!
I'm hoping to do a 3 speed conversion on my bike.
But, it is really tough to find 27" wheels with a three speed hub.
I did find this shwinn speedster with a three speed strumey archer hub and trigger shifter mechanism, but it looks to be a 26" tire. What are my chances that I can swap these rims, hubs and associated gear over to my bike?
I'm thinking null, but I wanted to ask the professionals and be shut down by some knowledgeable folks.
Thanks!



My bike


Bike Id like to strip


Hub looks decent, cable wire is clealry shot


Trigger shifter
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Old 07-18-18, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence_S
I noticed the exact same thing desconheicido. Not always the case on internet fora. I've lurked for awhile and it seems a very civilized place.
Now that you used (what I consider to be) the correct plural form of forum, you just made this an even more civilized place.
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Old 07-18-18, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence_S
New poster here with <10 post count. It's really hard to reply to posts since almost all on this thread contain a URL! Anyways, have recently added a 1980 ladies Raleigh Superbe and (coincidentally) a 1980 gent's Raleigh Tourist to the mix. This thread has been invaluable.

Please be kind when I post seemingly random comments to try to break the 10-post barrier.

Larry
Welcome! This is a good bunch here. I've learned a lot from this thread. Keep the random comments coming so we can see your bikes. I'm especially fond of DL-1s. Here'e mine.

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Old 07-18-18, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Buellster
Hey lovely 3 speed lovers!
I'm hoping to do a 3 speed conversion on my bike.
But, it is really tough to find 27" wheels with a three speed hub.
I did find this shwinn speedster with a three speed strumey archer hub and trigger shifter mechanism, but it looks to be a 26" tire. What are my chances that I can swap these rims, hubs and associated gear over to my bike?
I'm thinking null, but I wanted to ask the professionals and be shut down by some knowledgeable folks.
Thanks!
Ok. I don't think your Harding is a bad candidate for conversion to 3 speed, but trying to take the parts from the Schwinn is, in my opinion, not the way to go about it because of the difference in wheel sizes and the dearth of good tire options that will ensue. Your Harding has 27" tires with bead seat diameter of 630mm. The Schwinn has 26" tires which in Schwinn-land means wheels with bsd of 597 mm (there's an odd chance that it has 650a wheels, but I think that's remote -- somebody would have had to put Raleigh wheels or something on it). So, (622 - 597)/2 is 12.5 mm. That's a lot to expect of your current brakes and even if you can solve that problem, your tire selection would be essentially one -- Kenda 26 1-3/8 1/4 for Schwinn S6 rims (I think). If you want to do this, it essentially means that you have to build your own wheels, or have somebody do it. The preferred route would be to build into 700c rims, or 650b (584mm bsd).

The Speedster could be a viable donor for the hub and ancillary items. The hubs were, as I understand it, 36h and that makes it easier to build wheels than if you're starting with a 40h Raleigh donor. Personally, to me, that Speedster would be worth saving and I wouldn't part it out. Everybody needs at least one Ashtabula crank and a set of 1/2" pedals, don't they? There are plenty of old 3 speeds that are less worthy of salvation (probably there are about 10,000 crapped out Schwinn Breeze bicycles within a mile of you), but it's not like you would be painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa or anything, so, whatever.

Three speed bikes are a lot of fun and the options for messing around are almost, but not quite, infinite. You won't find many donor wheels in 27", 700c, or 650b, though, so if you're going to do this, you might want to consider gaining some wheel building skills. Wheel building can be almost therapeutic, it's cheaper than drugs, and chances are you won't get arrested.
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Old 07-18-18, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Ok. I don't think your Harding is a bad candidate for conversion to 3 speed, but trying to take the parts from the Schwinn is, in my opinion, not the way to go about it because of the difference in wheel sizes and the dearth of good tire options that will ensue. Your Harding has 27" tires with bead seat diameter of 630mm. The Schwinn has 26" tires which in Schwinn-land means wheels with bsd of 597 mm (there's an odd chance that it has 650a wheels, but I think that's remote -- somebody would have had to put Raleigh wheels or something on it). So, (622 - 597)/2 is 12.5 mm. That's a lot to expect of your current brakes and even if you can solve that problem, your tire selection would be essentially one -- Kenda 26 1-3/8 1/4 for Schwinn S6 rims (I think). If you want to do this, it essentially means that you have to build your own wheels, or have somebody do it. The preferred route would be to build into 700c rims, or 650b (584mm bsd).

The Speedster could be a viable donor for the hub and ancillary items. The hubs were, as I understand it, 36h and that makes it easier to build wheels than if you're starting with a 40h Raleigh donor. Personally, to me, that Speedster would be worth saving and I wouldn't part it out. Everybody needs at least one Ashtabula crank and a set of 1/2" pedals, don't they? There are plenty of old 3 speeds that are less worthy of salvation (probably there are about 10,000 crapped out Schwinn Breeze bicycles within a mile of you), but it's not like you would be painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa or anything, so, whatever.

Three speed bikes are a lot of fun and the options for messing around are almost, but not quite, infinite. You won't find many donor wheels in 27", 700c, or 650b, though, so if you're going to do this, you might want to consider gaining some wheel building skills. Wheel building can be almost therapeutic, it's cheaper than drugs, and chances are you won't get arrested.
Sort of what I thought too. I'm currently 2 bikes past my limit so I cant be adding anything to my brigade right now. The guy said it was definitely just a parts bike, but from the looks of it in the pics it just needs some love and it would be great!
I did find a 27" strumey archer rim and hub at my LBS. It doesnt have any of the cables or a shifter but they have new strumey archer triggers and cables to buy. All in it would be about $130.
it seems pricey but if 27" 3 speed rims are that rare maybe I should scoop it up...
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Old 07-18-18, 03:52 PM
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Thanks so much for the help!
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Old 07-18-18, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Buellster
Sort of what I thought too. I'm currently 2 bikes past my limit so I cant be adding anything to my brigade right now. The guy said it was definitely just a parts bike, but from the looks of it in the pics it just needs some love and it would be great!
I did find a 27" strumey archer rim and hub at my LBS. It doesnt have any of the cables or a shifter but they have new strumey archer triggers and cables to buy. All in it would be about $130.
it seems pricey but if 27" 3 speed rims are that rare maybe I should scoop it up...
Well, there's something to be said for plug and play. Also something to be said for forming a relationship with a pro you can deal with when necessary. Just a suggestion: if you're going to put the 27" 3 speed wheel on the Harding, consider one of the SA bar end 3 speed shifters that will plug right into the end on your Harding's bars. Might be a little pricier than the trigger shifter, but they are, as the say, the bee's knees. For cable routing on the Harding, if you look through this thread you'll see a couple examples of how to do it, where to put the pulley and fulcrum stop, etc. You need to decide how you're going to do it before you buy the parts because clamps for the top tube are different size than for the down tube (25.4mm and 28.6 mm, I think). My preference is to run along the top tube and seat stay because I tend to snag my heel on the cable if I route along the downtube and chainstay.

Yeah, the pics of that Schwinn don't look all that bad. Fenders look ok, paint needs some cleaning and some rust remidiation is in order, but those electro forged Schwinns were tough bikes. God knows I tried to kill one when I was a kid and couldn't do it.
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Old 07-18-18, 04:26 PM
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As the pawl spring explanation didn't get any traction I followed your suggestions and reset and readjusted everything shift related on the Sports step thru. I don't know where the problem was but things are back to normal. Next, the new-old Rudge. I have an idea about that, now.
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Old 07-18-18, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Well, there's something to be said for plug and play. Also something to be said for forming a relationship with a pro you can deal with when necessary. Just a suggestion: if you're going to put the 27" 3 speed wheel on the Harding, consider one of the SA bar end 3 speed shifters that will plug right into the end on your Harding's bars. Might be a little pricier than the trigger shifter, but they are, as the say, the bee's knees. For cable routing on the Harding, if you look through this thread you'll see a couple examples of how to do it, where to put the pulley and fulcrum stop, etc. You need to decide how you're going to do it before you buy the parts because clamps for the top tube are different size than for the down tube (25.4mm and 28.6 mm, I think). My preference is to run along the top tube and seat stay because I tend to snag my heel on the cable if I route along the downtube and chainstay.

Yeah, the pics of that Schwinn don't look all that bad. Fenders look ok, paint needs some cleaning and some rust remidiation is in order, but those electro forged Schwinns were tough bikes. God knows I tried to kill one when I was a kid and couldn't do it.
Those bar end shifters do look nice. Perhaps that's what I'll get to once my legs are under me. Haha
I've been pondering wheel building, it sounds like an essential skill if I want to keep my old bikes in good working order. Paying 90 dollars a to get the wheels done isn't any fun. I only just got to a point where I can rerun my own gear cables. Slowly but surely I'm building up my skill set, and a 3 speed build project seemed like a good way to start diving into the real essentials.
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Old 07-18-18, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Buellster
Those bar end shifters do look nice. Perhaps that's what I'll get to once my legs are under me. Haha
I've been pondering wheel building, it sounds like an essential skill if I want to keep my old bikes in good working order. Paying 90 dollars a to get the wheels done isn't any fun. I only just got to a point where I can rerun my own gear cables. Slowly but surely I'm building up my skill set, and a 3 speed build project seemed like a good way to start diving into the real essentials.
Not everybody builds wheels and it's not something that anyone has to do. It's not really a big money saver either as you can find somebody online to sell pretty decent wheelsets for not a lot of jingle. Velomine, for example, there are others, too. But, if you want something off the wall, like a vintage SA dynohub laced into a CR18 or pretty much anything uncommon or unique, it would likely be a pain or expensive. It's not a hard thing to do, but it's not obvious, to me anyway, how to build a wheel just by looking at the finished product. Probably the important thing is to study some good detailed instructions, like Brandt's book or Sheldon's instructions, until you understand all the steps and why. Then it becomes pretty much automatic. Sort of like playing guitar or riding a bicycle.
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Old 07-18-18, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Buellster
Those bar end shifters do look nice. Perhaps that's what I'll get to once my legs are under me. Haha
I've been pondering wheel building, it sounds like an essential skill if I want to keep my old bikes in good working order. Paying 90 dollars a to get the wheels done isn't any fun. I only just got to a point where I can rerun my own gear cables. Slowly but surely I'm building up my skill set, and a 3 speed build project seemed like a good way to start diving into the real essentials.
My first wheel build was for a ship captain who wanted something to ride around on a tanker deck, so we put a sewup rim on a 40H Sturmey hub for his "deck bike."
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Old 07-18-18, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Not everybody builds wheels and it's not something that anyone has to do. It's not really a big money saver either as you can find somebody online to sell pretty decent wheelsets for not a lot of jingle. Velomine, for example, there are others, too. But, if you want something off the wall, like a vintage SA dynohub laced into a CR18 or pretty much anything uncommon or unique, it would likely be a pain or expensive. It's not a hard thing to do, but it's not obvious, to me anyway, how to build a wheel just by looking at the finished product. Probably the important thing is to study some good detailed instructions, like Brandt's book or Sheldon's instructions, until you understand all the steps and why. Then it becomes pretty much automatic. Sort of like playing guitar or riding a bicycle.
There are a few wheel builders in the area that offer a fair price, if I provide the rim and hub with spokes it's not a huge cost. I'll have to look into it and see if that would cheaper or even near cost of just buying the 100 buck one.

Originally Posted by thumpism
My first wheel build was for a ship captain who wanted something to ride around on a tanker deck, so we put a sewup rim on a 40H Sturmey hub for his "deck bike."
Wow. Now that's a good story for a first wheel!
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Old 07-19-18, 06:21 AM
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Thanks, Big Chief, for the welcome! Your DL-1 is top notch. Mine is more lower rung. Pics coming soon!
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Old 07-19-18, 08:36 AM
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Can't seem to fix the shifting on Mr. Rudge. First gear will engage only with the indicator pulled perfectly tight, which is wrong right there, and it won't stay in first, it slips up into second gear, or just slips. So much for getting some beach rides on this bike. Maybe it needs a different indicator, or who knows what. Will have to wait until September and the local bike jumble where I'll be able to pick up some parts.
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Old 07-19-18, 10:17 AM
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Wheel building is a very good skill if getting in any deeper than mere fiddling with old bikes.

Wheel truing is a very good skill if involved with old bikes at all.

Wheel building is a necessity if dealing with very old bikes, where the age is such that the rims and spokes are often rusted away or rusted solid into place (e.g., 1930s era stuff is often this way after 80+ years).
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Old 07-19-18, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Can't seem to fix the shifting on Mr. Rudge. First gear will engage only with the indicator pulled perfectly tight, which is wrong right there, and it won't stay in first, it slips up into second gear, or just slips. So much for getting some beach rides on this bike. Maybe it needs a different indicator, or who knows what. Will have to wait until September and the local bike jumble where I'll be able to pick up some parts.
I have had AW hubs that I couldn't figure out. The hub on my DL-1 makes this sound freewheeling that I can't explain. Sorta of a runch runch noise that goes away if I hold the crank in certain positions. I've had it apart 3 times and I still have no idea what causes it. I've had others that were just cranky to shift and never figured out why. I did have one success with a hub that didn't like shifting into high. The clutch plate would hang up on those planet gear pins instead of slipping down and engaging them. I rounded off the edges with a fine stone and polished the tops to a mirror finish. I also stretched out the clutch spring a bit. One or both of those things did the job. It shifted smoothly into high from then on. Sometimes, you get lucky. If the issue seems unsolvable, you could always try swapping different AW guts into the Rudge's hub shell.
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Old 07-19-18, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Can't seem to fix the shifting on Mr. Rudge. First gear will engage only with the indicator pulled perfectly tight, which is wrong right there, and it won't stay in first, it slips up into second gear, or just slips. So much for getting some beach rides on this bike. Maybe it needs a different indicator, or who knows what. Will have to wait until September and the local bike jumble where I'll be able to pick up some parts.
Fill the hub with WD40 and take it for a mile ride, then see if it holds the gear after that. You may have some dried grease in the wrong place in the hub. Its not the toggle chain!
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Old 07-19-18, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence_S
Thanks, Big Chief, for the welcome! Your DL-1 is top notch. Mine is more lower rung. Pics coming soon!
Well...not really. This is how it came to me. I salvaged the front mudguard, the rear is an old replacement as is the chainguard. Lots of touch up work on the frame. For some reason, as bad as the bike was rusted, the chrome was in decent condition.
This model remained nearly unchanged from the late 30s all the way to the end in 1980. These big roadsters aren't for everybody, but they do have a small enthusiastic following. There's a few of us here.

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Old 07-19-18, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Well...not really. This is how it came to me. I salvaged the front mudguard, the rear is an old replacement as is the chainguard. Lots of touch up work on the frame. For some reason, as bad as the bike was rusted, the chrome was in decent condition.
This model remained nearly unchanged from the late 30s all the way to the end in 1980. These big roadsters aren't for everybody, but they do have a small enthusiastic following. There's a few of us here.
Mine's an 1957 BSA Silver DeLuxe, with one of those SW hubs. I'm a bit stalled on whether to change out the hub- its slips a bit, but I really like the gear range.
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