Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 10-20-18, 04:02 PM
  #18301  
desconhecido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post
The bike did arrive toady and it's a little rougher than it appears in the photo...
they always do.
The Good
Vintage frame in reasonable shape (straight)
BSA chain ring
Decorative front forks
Dyno hub
Newish front tire
1961 SA hub
one good caliper
Faint "Tour of Britain" decal
Cranks are straight

The Bad
paint is rough (I will leave as is)
back tire needs replacing
Cables and brake pads crap
vinyl saddle
Cheap grips
modern trigger
weird modern stem
Chrome fenders from an Eatons Glider
crappy brake levers
cranks are mis aligned
cotters driven in from same side






Somebody has clearly messed this up a bit.
Not surprising for a bike 60+ years old.

So I think this one's a good candidate for a semi-scorcher.
I have most of the parts I need in the garage
Oh, man, I love that fork. For me, that would be the price of admission, right there. Was that a BSA thing or is that something that's found its way into your possession, sort of like a subtle tune carried on a soft autumn breeze?

If you might scorcherize it, have you thought about 700c? Problems with that are: rims with 40h and easy clearance for only 28mm, maybe 32mm with some KY.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 10-20-18, 05:27 PM
  #18302  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,983
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
I like this bike. It offers some nice possibilities you wouldn't get with a clean, more complete example. For me, it would be a scorcher build. I'll say now that I prefer 21" frames for scorchers. The important things are there. A real 50s Birmingham frame, that great fork and the BSA crank. I wouldn't think twice about stripping and repainting this frameset. Looks like the Raleigh rear rim is in poor shape, but you got a 61 AW out of the deal.Yeah, those are later cheapo brake levers. Pretty sure this bike would have had the stirrup style originally, but again, no need to preserve them. This could be one sharp scorcher!! love it.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is online now  
Old 10-20-18, 05:29 PM
  #18303  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
Oh, man, I love that fork. For me, that would be the price of admission, right there. Was that a BSA thing or is that something that's found its way into your possession, sort of like a subtle tune carried on a soft autumn breeze?

If you might scorcherize it, have you thought about 700c? Problems with that are: rims with 40h and easy clearance for only 28mm, maybe 32mm with some KY.
I've never built a wheel before but thought I might give it a go.
The back wheel is out of true quite a bit.
gster is offline  
Old 10-20-18, 05:41 PM
  #18304  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Tour of Britain 1953

Gordon W. "Tiny" Thomas (18 August 1921 – 10 April 2013) was a British cyclist who competed at the 1948 Summer Olympics in London. There he won a silver medal in the team road race alongside Bob Maitland and Ian Scott.[1] He also competed in the individual event, placing 8th in a field of 101 participants. Born in Shipley, West Riding of Yorkshire,[2] he served during World War IIwith the Royal Artillery in Africa and Italy. After his Olympic experience, he went on to win the 1953 Tour of Britain before retiring from cycling to enter the wool business.[3]
gster is offline  
Old 10-20-18, 09:44 PM
  #18305  
agmetal
Senior Member
 
agmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,540

Bikes: Bianchi Volpe, ANT 3-speed roadster, New Albion Privateer singlespeed, Raleigh One Way singlespeed, Raleigh Professional "retro roadie" rebuild, 198? Fuji(?) franken-5-speed, 1937 Raleigh Tourist, 1952 Raleigh Sports, 1966 Raleigh Sports step-through

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Something I've been wondering about...Is it possible to convert a modern SA hub with a drum brake to oil lubrication? I know that the old ones were oiled, but is there any reason not to do that with a modern hub? The thing I'd be worried about is potential contamination of the braking surfaces, but I'm wondering if doing this conversion would my winter bike a little less of a slog to ride in the cold
agmetal is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 02:10 AM
  #18306  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 07:06 AM
  #18307  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Messed around With BSA
I'd mentioned that I could tell the bike had been messed with in the past.
On a positive note the cotters came out easily.
the cup took a bit of work but it was worth it for the
surprise inside!


What is this peaking out?
Some rust encrusted fabric sticking out....

This rotten old sock (?) was wrapped around the spindle and stuffed into the BB.
What's up with that?
Some old home remedy?
It's pretty grimy and rusty inside but should clean up.
More to follow
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 07:50 AM
  #18308  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,983
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Holy cow! OK, that's taking backyard engineering a bit too far. Funny how two of the most messed up bikes I ever bought turned out to be my favorite riders. I see some good mojo building here for this old BSA.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is online now  
Old 10-21-18, 08:00 AM
  #18309  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
More Tomfoolery!
This could be a BSA thing but I've never seen it before.
I suspect more messing around...
There's an extra race at the bottom of the stem.

On disassembly another extra was found up top.
.
There bearings here were clean and new so I suspect this was "worked on" somewhat recently.

On the plus side...
One good caliper and a long seat post.
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 10:20 AM
  #18310  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,983
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
I have a theory...Some headset bearing cups are designed for caged bearings and are deeper than those meant for loose balls. I don't know which type would have been original on this bike. I think Mr. Meatball tried to use loose bearings with cups designed for caged bearings and found it was too deep, so he just used another lower race to sandwich the loose bearings. Ugh. But, I think you may be able to swap out the the cups and races with Raleigh parts. edit...or find the correct size caged bearings.
__________________
Inflate Hard

Last edited by BigChief; 10-21-18 at 12:36 PM.
BigChief is online now  
Old 10-21-18, 12:36 PM
  #18311  
desconhecido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
I have a theory...Some headset bearing cups are designed for caged bearings and are deeper than those meant for loose balls. I don't know which type would have been original on this bike. I think Mr. Meatball tried to use loose bearings with cups designed for caged bearings and found it was too deep, so he just used another lower race to sandwich the loose bearings. Ugh. But, I think you may be able to swap out the the cups and races with Raleigh parts.
Makes me wonder if that fork and frame have been married for a long time or might they be newly-weds? If you take the extra stuff out of there, the steerer will either need to be shortened or a bunch of spacers will be necessary. Seems like the steerer is too long for the headtube and a normal length stack of stuff. I suppose there is one thing: it's probably better to shim with some headset parts rather than an old sock. I can hear it: "Hey, I think my fork thing is too long, the nut won't tighten." "Yeah? Stick a sock in it."

Would be interesting to know the steerer threading and the length of the steerer and headtube, or stack height.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 12:41 PM
  #18312  
desconhecido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post
Messed around With BSA
I'd mentioned that I could tell the bike had been messed with in the past.
On a positive note the cotters came out easily.
the cup took a bit of work but it was worth it for the
surprise inside!


What is this peaking out?
Some rust encrusted fabric sticking out....

This rotten old sock (?) was wrapped around the spindle and stuffed into the BB.
What's up with that?
Some old home remedy?
It's pretty grimy and rusty inside but should clean up.
More to follow

There's probably some guy out there right now looking for that sock. "Hey have you seen my other sock? I can't find it anywhere." Place a lost and found ad in CL: "Are you missing one of these?" "Found, one sock, pretty grimy and rusty inside but should clean up."

Jeez, I need a nap.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 01:03 PM
  #18313  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 7,300

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1250 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 41 Times in 33 Posts
That Tom! He’s always fooling around!
3speedslow is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 01:18 PM
  #18314  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,983
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
Makes me wonder if that fork and frame have been married for a long time or might they be newly-weds? If you take the extra stuff out of there, the steerer will either need to be shortened or a bunch of spacers will be necessary. Seems like the steerer is too long for the headtube and a normal length stack of stuff. I suppose there is one thing: it's probably better to shim with some headset parts rather than an old sock. I can hear it: "Hey, I think my fork thing is too long, the nut won't tighten." "Yeah? Stick a sock in it."

Would be interesting to know the steerer threading and the length of the steerer and headtube, or stack height.
I think the paint matches. Looks original to me. The reason I know about this is a few years ago I bought a very messed up 21" mid 50s Rudge Sports. It has a '55 alloy shell AW that, in my twisted mind was worth the price of the bike. The original fork was replaced with one of unknown manufacture. When I went to service the headset I found it had caged bearings.When I tried replacing them with the 5/32" bearings this bike should have, they didn't fit the cups that were pressed into the frame. It was too loose. The cups wouldn't engage the bearings. The cups must have been changed as well. I think that's what happened here, but instead of pressing in new cups or finding the correct caged bearings, he came up with this brilliant plan. Perhaps BSA used caged bearings on this bike originally.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is online now  
Old 10-21-18, 03:42 PM
  #18315  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
Makes m e wonder if that fork and frame have been married for a long time or might they be newly-weds? If you take the extra stuff out of there, the steerer will either need to be shortened or a bunch of spacers will be necessary. Seems like the steerer is too long for the headtube and a normal length stack of stuff. I suppose there is one thing: it's probably better to shim with some headset parts rather than an old sock. I can hear it: "Hey, I think my fork thing is too long, the nut won't tighten." "Yeah? Stick a sock in it."

Would be interesting to know the steerer threading and the length of the steerer and headtube, or stack height.
Actually, the sock was in the Bottom bracket....
I'll investigate the steering tube business as well.
It looks to me like any other headset (British) I've seen and I can't imagine caged bearings on
a bike this old.
Time will tell...
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 04:00 PM
  #18316  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
There's probably some guy out there right now looking for that sock. "Hey have you seen my other sock? I can't find it anywhere." Place a lost and found ad in CL: "Are you missing one of these?" "Found, one sock, pretty grimy and rusty inside but should clean up."

Jeez, I need a nap.
That was his favourite sock, too.
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 04:22 PM
  #18317  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts

a similar vintage.. maybe correct...
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 04:27 PM
  #18318  
jamesj
Senior Member
 
jamesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 876

Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL, 2006 Paul Frank Cruiser, 1987 Specialized Street Stomper, 1980 Trek 412, 1979 Raleigh Sport,

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
jamesj is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 04:28 PM
  #18319  
desconhecido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post
Actually, the sock was in the Bottom bracket....
I'll investigate the steering tube business as well.
It looks to me like any other headset (British) I've seen and I can't imagine caged bearings on
a bike this old.
Time will tell...
Yeah, I know, but it doesn't make any more sense being stuffed in the bottom bracket shell than in the headtube or anywhere else. Maybe whoever put it there had a theory about keeping the BB warm.

That sock looks like those green ones that they issued to us in basic training. Man, I hated those socks
desconhecido is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 05:28 PM
  #18320  
desconhecido
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 252 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post

a similar vintage.. maybe correct...
Need to check that bike and see if there's a sock in the bottom bracket.

On English Ebay, I found this ad for a Thomas Cross headset It's not real easy to tell from the photos but there are seven parts making up that set and I think it may be what's on yours, but, I've never seen such a thing. Amazing.
desconhecido is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 05:34 PM
  #18321  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
Need to check that bike and see if there's a sock in the bottom bracket.

On English Ebay, I found this ad for a Thomas Cross headset It's not real easy to tell from the photos but there are seven parts making up that set and I think it may be what's on yours, but, I've never seen such a thing. Amazing.
Good detective work.
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 05:44 PM
  #18322  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post
Good detective work.
gster is offline  
Old 10-21-18, 08:40 PM
  #18323  
clubman
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,600

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1008 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post
I have some of these parts. One complete headset (reserved for a pre war Dunelt) and some extra new bits. Show me pics of what you want to replace.
clubman is offline  
Old 10-22-18, 03:58 AM
  #18324  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,654

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I have some of these parts. One complete headset (reserved for a pre war Dunelt) and some extra new bits. Show me pics of what you want to replace.
Thanks for the offer.
I think I have all the parts, just need to sort them out.
gster is offline  
Old 10-22-18, 10:47 AM
  #18325  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,983
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post

a similar vintage.. maybe correct...
That's a Raleigh frame with the standard headset. Would love to see the whole bike. I still think that cup on yours was meant for a caged bearing, or perhaps larger bearings. When he went to assemble it with 5/32 bearings it was loose and his solution was to place another crown race on top, wedged into the oversized cup. But that leaves the joint exposed. This is exactly what happened to me with the Rudge. Fortunately, the caged bearings were in good shape, so I reused them. But I'm sure I could have also replaced the cups with Raleigh, used loose 5/32" bearings and still get away with using the threaded upper race and lock nut. What's on the upper end of your headset? Is it the same?
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.