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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 11-01-18, 05:59 AM
  #18401  
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This can't be right...
I rebuilt the headset as I received it.
The lower race sits nicely inside the cup w/ 1/8" bearings.

The upper race sits proud of the cup and I can't imagine the BSA engineers would have done this.

So I need a smaller race or I might try swapping the upper cup with a Raleigh cup w/ a built in race.
I was right about the Tomfoolery and now dealing with Shenanigans as well.....
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Old 11-01-18, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Made in Canada Raleigh


Here's a nice one, priced at $80.00, here in Toronto.
What does Made in Canada really mean?
The Canadian Government imposed heavy tariffs on imported bicycles in the 1970's to encourage
domestic sales and production.
Bicycle parts/spares were not included.
Raleigh, Peugot and others set up "factories" here to
assemble "Canadian Made" bicycles.
I don't know if anything was actually made here or
if parts were just shipped here and assembled.
I own a Canadian made Superbe and the only difference I see is
the colour. An English Superbe is more of an olive green where as the
Canadian, is a forest green.

Canadian

English
Raleigh Canada built steel frames in their Waterloo Quebec plant up until the plant closed in 2013. Aluminum frames were made off shore. I think it was the same for Pro Cycle brands.The Waterloo plant opened in the early 70s, so I think anything older would have been English.
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Old 11-01-18, 10:07 AM
  #18403  
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Originally Posted by gster
Eatons Catalogue Page Circa 1955
$47.95 in today's dollars = $452.00!
That catalogue (1955) was a bit before my time but Eaton's downtown Toronto brought lots of joy growing up. Especially around X-Mas time with their window displays competing against Sears(next door).
A chunk of history gone.....but I digress.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:05 PM
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Canadian bikes? Only one was made in Canada. I would pay the $69.95 for the Raleigh built 3 speed though.
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Old 11-02-18, 07:05 AM
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BSA Headset
So here it is complete as found.


I'll set off today to see my friend George at Parts Unknown
to find a solution.
Could be as simple as finding a smaller race for inside the bottom cup
or a complete new headset.
BC may have been right about the caged bearings....
This Tange headset is available locally (new) but
I don't know much about them...
Price is right.

Last edited by gster; 11-02-18 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 11-02-18, 12:00 PM
  #18406  
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Originally Posted by gster
This can't be right...
I rebuilt the headset as I received it.
The lower race sits nicely inside the cup w/ 1/8" bearings.

The upper race sits proud of the cup and I can't imagine the BSA engineers would have done this.

So I need a smaller race or I might try swapping the upper cup with a Raleigh cup w/ a built in race.
I was right about the Tomfoolery and now dealing with Shenanigans as well.....
I am restoring a 1936 BSA Roadster and it has the same Headstock System as yours. I attach photographs that hopefully will help you as the components on mine are the correct parts. I hope the photos are self explanatory. The inner races fit inside the cups that form the Headstock and are virtually flush when in place. Without checking I believe there are 30 x 1/8" balls both at top and bottom. I am only just starting the rebuild as the frame arrived today after being trued by a frame builder and then re finished in black by the painter. The cups on my frame are part of the frame, ie. not inserts. If yours are inserts I would say the top cup is the wrong size to receive the top race. I am making assumptions from your photos so forgive me if I have got it wrong. I hope this helps. Regards Peter.







Last edited by PeterLYoung; 11-02-18 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Add Information
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Old 11-02-18, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterLYoung
I am restoring a 1936 BSA Roadster and it has the same Headstock System as yours. I attach photographs that hopefully will help you as the components on mine are the correct parts. I hope the photos are self explanatory. The inner races fit inside the cups that form the Headstock and are virtually flush when in place. Without checking I believe there are 30 x 1/8" balls both at top and bottom. I am only just starting the rebuild as the frame arrived today after being trued by a frame builder and then re finished in black by the painter. I hope this helps.






Thank you and well explained.
An interesting system as your "cups" appear to be built in.
My bike has been messed around with and some of those races are missing and I'm unlikely to find...
In the mean time I bought a fork and headset today from George and
have managed to cobble together a headset that works.

The new (used) headset came from some unknown fork but the pieces were all there and the threading worked.
The cups fit as well, with some persuasion...
Yes, caged bearings, but can swap out later.
Not elegant but I used one of the BSA races as a temporary spacer on the top.

Looking at the photo, i may need to seat the top cup a bit more.

Last edited by gster; 11-02-18 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 11-02-18, 12:30 PM
  #18408  
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Originally Posted by gster
Thank you and well explained.
An interesting system as your "cups" appear to be built in.
My bike has been messed around with and some of those races are missing and I'm unlikely to find...
In the mean time I bought a fork and headset today from George and
have managed to cobble together a headset that works.

The new (used) headset came from some unknown fork but the pieces were all there and the treading worked.
The cups fit as well, with some persuasion...
Yes, caged bearings, but can swap out later.
Not elegant but I used one of the BSA races as a temporary spacer on the top.

Looking at the photo, i may need to seat the top cup a bit more.
That looks to work OK, you could cut the fork down so you don't need the cup as a spacer or you could get a proper spacer if you don't want to do that. Thing that impressed me about the BSA Cups is that after 82 years and with dried out grease they had no sign of wear, they certainly used good steel!!!
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Old 11-02-18, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterLYoung
That looks to work OK, you could cut the fork down so you don't need the cup as a spacer or you could get a proper spacer if you don't want to do that. Thing that impressed me about the BSA Cups is that after 82 years and with dried out grease they had no sign of wear, they certainly used good steel!!!
Yes to both options. I'm just anxious to make some progress on this beast.
I suppose the thinking was that you could replace those parts as needed.
I'm sure combining the cup and race as Raleigh did later, was another way to cut costs.
Please continue to post pictures as your bike progresses.
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Old 11-02-18, 10:13 PM
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Maybe somebody will come along with an early 50s BSA and solve the riddle. I did find this on the internet. It's a pre Raleigh BSA stunt bike. Good view of the headset. A later style than Peter's. Same headbadge as yours. Looks like the knurled top race you have is original. Pressed in cups with integrated races looks like. Shallow top and deeper bottom cup like a Raleigh. Locknut has keyways for a lock ring type spanner.


1950s BSA All-Chrome Performer?s Bicycle | The Online Bicycle Museum
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Old 11-03-18, 06:31 AM
  #18411  
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Maybe somebody will come along with an early 50s BSA and solve the riddle. I did find this on the internet. It's a pre Raleigh BSA stunt bike. Good view of the headset. A later style than Peter's. Same headbadge as yours. Looks like the knurled top race you have is original. Pressed in cups with integrated races looks like. Shallow top and deeper bottom cup like a Raleigh. Locknut has keyways for a lock ring type spanner.


1950s BSA All-Chrome Performer?s Bicycle | The Online Bicycle Museum
Thanks for that.
Good reference.
Is that a steering damper?
I suspect that at some point the front end came apart for maintenance and
that 2 of the BSA specific races were misplaced and replaced with
the more common but larger Raleigh parts, which don't nest inside the cups.
The guy I bought it from told me there was something going on up
front but he hadn't bothered to look into it.
The bearings and grease were all relatively new.
Unlike the BB, which obviously hadn't been attended
to for many years.
The stem is not keyed like a Raleigh either.
I'm happy with my current solution but will keep
my eyes open for the proper parts.
It's turning into another BITSA
Bits a this and bits of that...
-1953 BSA frame and crank
-unknown heasdset (Japan?)
-Quill stem and bars from an Eatons glider
-1974 Dynohub front wheel
-1961 SA hub rear wheel
-modern seat post with a new leather saddle (not sure what brand but think American))
-English pump
-Modern Chinese rubber and brake pads
-Put together by a Canadian
An International Bike of Mystery....
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Old 11-03-18, 06:42 AM
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Looks like a steering lock if you flip the bars 180 degrees, which you would on a stunt bike. Controlled no hands stuff.
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Old 11-03-18, 06:54 AM
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Raleigh Tourist 1969

I'm new here and have never joined a chat room, so this is a test. I'm not a bike person, but I just acquired a nice Raleigh Tourist and have done a lot of research online. The closest match is 1969, with the Heron logo and other exact matches. It has a serial number: NB 0025645. It has been surprisingly difficult (impossible) for me to find out exactly when the bike was made or what it is worth. It has the Brooks leather seat. Anyone have any ideas? I can take some photos as soon as the sun comes up here in the Ozark Mountains. Thank you.
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Old 11-03-18, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mountain
I'm new here and have never joined a chat room, so this is a test. I'm not a bike person, but I just acquired a nice Raleigh Tourist and have done a lot of research online. The closest match is 1969, with the Heron logo and other exact matches. It has a serial number: NB 0025645. It has been surprisingly difficult (impossible) for me to find out exactly when the bike was made or what it is worth. It has the Brooks leather seat. Anyone have any ideas? I can take some photos as soon as the sun comes up here in the Ozark Mountains. Thank you.
Although not totally accurate, we generally use the date stamped on the Sturmey Archer hub shell to date Raleighs. The heron with the two metallic strips on the seat post was in use up until around 1973. Here's the DL-1 from the 1970 catalog.

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Old 11-03-18, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sugar Mountain
I'm new here and have never joined a chat room, so this is a test. I'm not a bike person, but I just acquired a nice Raleigh Tourist and have done a lot of research online. The closest match is 1969, with the Heron logo and other exact matches. It has a serial number: NB 0025645. It has been surprisingly difficult (impossible) for me to find out exactly when the bike was made or what it is worth. It has the Brooks leather seat. Anyone have any ideas? I can take some photos as soon as the sun comes up here in the Ozark Mountains. Thank you.
Welcome.
A lot of knowledgeable riders/builders on this forum to help.
Big Chief is right, check the hub for a build date and post some pictures.
Value?
Free-?
Depends on condition and your local market.
A Tourist is not for everyone.
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Old 11-03-18, 07:47 AM
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BSA
Here's a shot of the shifter cable stop as found.
BSA?
I'll probably add a pulley and fulcrum stop (Raleigh style)
as I prefer the look.

The saddle (new)

Brake levers (unknown brand) and S/A trigger.
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Old 11-03-18, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Johno59
Unfortunately not. The great wealth and industrial production was at the expense of worker's well-being. The average Joe's diet had very little good protein - it still hasn't.
The current Queen is less than 5 foot tall. Queen Victoria was 2 inches shorter . I doubt either ever went hungry.
The secret to a quality product at an affordable price: have a workforce of unwashed people living in cramped coalfired slums, eating fat dripping instead of meat, and crapping it out in an outside bog with a newspaper to wipe with. No wonder everyone above the age of 55 seems to have six brothers and sisters, at least one of them would've been expected to die. And this was the generation lucky enough to be born after the NHS! That's the hole in mtb_addict's theory, we only got to do stuff like "see a doctor" or "not get a job at 8 years old" after our overlord's empire started crumbling to bits.

I've heard it put that wartime rationing actually improved most people's diets. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. Prosperity was a hallucination we had in the 90s.

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Old 11-03-18, 11:22 AM
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BSA Combined 3 Speed & Hub Brake

Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
Here it is. Quite lengthy. I will try to edit it down a bit when I get a chance. Also don't have the closed captioning edited yet, so it will be the always comical voice to text version for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvKyiajpTEo
I have a BSA Combined 3 Speed & Hub Brake. I want to dismantle the 3 Speed and check and clean it as part of the restoration of my 1936 Light Roadster. Thing is because the 3 Speed End Cap is recessed inside the Brake Drum it is not possible to get a purchase on the flats to undo it. BSA must have had a special tool to do this.

I have concluded the only way is to design a tool and get it made (probably at great expense).
The tool is designed so that the Spindle Nut (with a washer) can be installed to hold the tool against the End Cap to maintain purchase while loosening it, obviously one will have to keep slackening the Spindle Nut as the End Cap is undone to prevent jamming between End Cap and Spindle Nut.
I thought others may have this problem so I am attaching an image of the Hub and the design for the tool (which is not yet made, will be done when I get back from USA to UK in February).

Also I have started a New Thread under Classic & Vintage Titled: 'Restoring a 1936 BSA Light Roadster'
Regards
Peter
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
BSA 3 Speed Hub 1Nov18.pdf (1.96 MB, 7 views)

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Old 11-03-18, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Yes to both options. I'm just anxious to make some progress on this beast.
I suppose the thinking was that you could replace those parts as needed.
I'm sure combining the cup and race as Raleigh did later, was another way to cut costs.
Please continue to post pictures as your bike progresses.
​​I have started a New Thread under Classic & Vintage Titled: 'Restoring a 1936 BSA Light Roadster'
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Old 11-03-18, 08:21 PM
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Dirty deeds done dirt cheap!

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Old 11-04-18, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterLYoung
I have a BSA Combined 3 Speed & Hub Brake. I want to dismantle the 3 Speed and check and clean it as part of the restoration of my 1936 Light Roadster. Thing is because the 3 Speed End Cap is recessed inside the Brake Drum it is not possible to get a purchase on the flats to undo it. BSA must have had a special tool to do this.

I have concluded the only way is to design a tool and get it made (probably at great expense).
The tool is designed so that the Spindle Nut (with a washer) can be installed to hold the tool against the End Cap to maintain purchase while loosening it, obviously one will have to keep slackening the Spindle Nut as the End Cap is undone to prevent jamming between End Cap and Spindle Nut.
I thought others may have this problem so I am attaching an image of the Hub and the design for the tool (which is not yet made, will be done when I get back from USA to UK in February).

Also I have started a New Thread under Classic & Vintage Titled: 'Restoring a 1936 BSA Light Roadster'
Regards
Peter
Good drawing
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Old 11-04-18, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by browngw

Canadian bikes? Only one was made in Canada. I would pay the $69.95 for the Raleigh built 3 speed though.
I like that gold colour...
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Old 11-04-18, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
I like that gold colour...
Recently sold this 1972 Supercycle in gold. It too, came with the drop bars. I changed them to catch a larger audience. I let it go because it was a 21" frame.
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Old 11-04-18, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by browngw
Recently sold this 1972 Supercycle in gold. It too, came with the drop bars. I changed them to catch a larger audience. I let it go because it was a 21" frame.
I remember you had one..
Sharp looking bike in either trim.

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Old 11-04-18, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by browngw
Recently sold this 1972 Supercycle in gold. It too, came with the drop bars. I changed them to catch a larger audience. I let it go because it was a 21" frame.
Nice job on this one! I'm seriously considering using this color on a project. I have a 23" mid 70s Sports with shabby paint that might get gold paint and a S5.2 hub.
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