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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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Old 11-08-18, 04:00 PM
  #18551  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
Looks like a real good deal.

The rear wheel shows to have a CR18 sticker on it. The Sun CR18 rim is the best modern replacement rim for the 26 X 1-3/8 EA3 rims. Looks like it has stainless spokes as well. I think those rims are going for about $30, or so, these days and to build it with SS spokes-- probably $50 in parts (rim and spokes). So, that's a good thing right there -- the rear wheel with hub alone is worth the entry.
Oh, real good to know! Thanks! I think that Nitto handle bar stem is going for $20-$30 on eBay too. A used Union Dynamo light set (1980s) is going for $25. (the lens on this one is cracked though). Based on these replaced parts: rim, spokes, handlebar neck and that Avocet O2 seat, does anyone have a guess as to when the work may have been done on this?
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Old 11-08-18, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
There really isn't any way to do that without some sort of machining.

Nervar used to make the Nervar Sport crankset, which was initially a steel cottered crank with alloy chainrings. Later versions were cotterless but still made of steel. There were also cottered alloy cranksets, but they are quite rare! Generally speaking, cottered cranks are easier to work with once you have a proper cotter press. They are less likely to creak and loosen up.
I figured that was going to be the case.
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Old 11-08-18, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
Oh, real good to know! Thanks! I think that Nitto handle bar stem is going for $20-$30 on eBay too. A used Union Dynamo light set (1980s) is going for $25. (the lens on this one is cracked though). Based on these replaced parts: rim, spokes, handlebar neck and that Avocet O2 seat, does anyone have a guess as to when the work may have been done on this?
Think I found your bike
Royal Crown Lightweight, made for D.P. Harris...1956
$77.50 in 1956 would cost $510.00 today

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Old 11-08-18, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Think I found your bike
Royal Crown Lightweight, made for D.P. Harris...1956
$77.50 in 1956 would cost $510.00 today

Another one

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Old 11-08-18, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Another one

More info
Apparently sold at Firestone stores...
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pa...crowns.110056/
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Old 11-08-18, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Think I found your bike
Royal Crown Lightweight, made for D.P. Harris...1956
$77.50 in 1956 would cost $510.00 today

That is way cool! Not much different six years later, eh? Wonder if the '62 had the chain guard and was sold with those accessories. I got the impression when doing my research that once Raleigh bought many of the smaller companies out around 1960 some of the builds weren't as robust afterwards. Hence maybe why the '62 is just called "Royal". I need to steal that pic for my photo blog. hehe Thanks!

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Old 11-08-18, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
That is way cool! Not much different six years later, eh? Wonder if the '62 had the chain guard and was sold with those accessories. I got the impression when doing my research that once Raleigh bought many of the smaller companies out around 1960 some of the builds weren't as robust afterwards. Hence maybe why the '62 is just called "Royal". I need to steal that pic for my photo blog. hehe Thanks!
The bike in this ad looks American to me. The one piece crank and shark fin front mudguard stand out. Hard to say, but it looks like a welded frame too. Raleigh made so many custom label bikes that it's hard to keep track of them all. The OP's bike is typical of these from the early 60s. I have one too. A Royal Scot. There's a good chance the Royal looked very similar with white grips and cable housings. And this seat which is truly horrible to ride on. BTW, mine has a dealer sticker from "Wheel Goods" in Minneapolis

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Old 11-08-18, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
The bike in this ad looks American to me. The one piece crank and shark fin front mudguard stand out. Hard to say, but it looks like a welded frame too. Raleigh made so many custom label bikes that it's hard to keep track of them all. The OP's bike is typical of these from the early 60s. I have one too. A Royal Scot. There's a good chance the Royal looked very similar with white grips and cable housings. And this seat which is truly horrible to ride on. BTW, mine has a dealer sticker from "Wheel Goods" in Minneapolis

That is a beauty. Yup, so similar to mine. I'm grateful to learn so much about these bicycles from you all!
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Old 11-09-18, 06:28 AM
  #18559  
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
The bike in this ad looks American to me. The one piece crank and shark fin front mudguard stand out. Hard to say, but it looks like a welded frame too. Raleigh made so many custom label bikes that it's hard to keep track of them all. The OP's bike is typical of these from the early 60s. I have one too. A Royal Scot. There's a good chance the Royal looked very similar with white grips and cable housings. And this seat which is truly horrible to ride on. BTW, mine has a dealer sticker from "Wheel Goods" in Minneapolis

I have a similar bike with a terrible saddle.
1964 AMF Hercules.
A very original bike so I've left the seat as is...
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Old 11-09-18, 06:44 AM
  #18560  
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
Hence maybe why the '62 is just called "Royal". I need to steal that pic for my photo blog. hehe Thanks!
Odds are good yours is 'just' a Royal. I had one and I've seen a couple of others in the wild. What part of the world did you find your bike?
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Old 11-09-18, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Odds are good yours is 'just' a Royal. I had one and I've seen a couple of others in the wild. What part of the world did you find your bike?
It seems they ran out of names to go with Royal and someone thought, hey, we haven't just used Royal yet! Done. LOL

I'm in Denver.

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Old 11-09-18, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
I have a similar bike with a terrible saddle.
1964 AMF Hercules.
A very original bike so I've left the seat as is...
I don't care for those saddles either, but it's nowhere near as bad as the one they used on the Scot. That one is an actual kiddie saddle like the ones on Space Riders. Sprung for someone who weighs maybe 70 pounds. On a 23" framed bike! Somebody in the bad ideas department was working overtime on this one. Then they went a bit overboard on the seat tube transfer. I suppose it's cool in a funky sort of way.

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Old 11-09-18, 11:24 AM
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Here we go! The 1962 Royal in it's original outfitting. I found this on someone's blog called J-Turn. Says he took the photo in Ann Arbor in 2014-2016. "First up, a 1962 "Royal" 3-speed. I'm not sure whether this brand was made for a department store, but the bike is definitely a Raleigh product. I really like the stem, and it seems to fit the 23.8 mm clamp diameter. I'm interested. Last time I saw this bike, it was lying on its side close to a bike shop downtown with a flat tire."
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Old 11-09-18, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
Here we go! The 1962 Royal in it's original outfitting. I found this on someone's blog called J-Turn. Says he took the photo in Ann Arbor in 2014-2016. "First up, a 1962 "Royal" 3-speed. I'm not sure whether this brand was made for a department store, but the bike is definitely a Raleigh product. I really like the stem, and it seems to fit the 23.8 mm clamp diameter. I'm interested. Last time I saw this bike, it was lying on its side close to a bike shop downtown with a flat tire."
Good detective work again. This one has the correct trigger shifter. By then, the graphics were only printed on without embossing and flipped around to face upward. They also changed from the threaded ferrule to the ball type. White grips and cable housings were the fashion in the early 60s. This person changed the stem for a longer reach and ended up with the same problem of the shifter cable being too short. I've never seen this fork crown cap on any other Raleighs. Seems to be unique to Royals as far as I know.
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Old 11-09-18, 05:22 PM
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If you guys haven't seen it already, this vintage 3 speed was posted in the ebay and craigslist thread by madpogue.
http://www.bikeforums.net/20654312-post48531.html
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Old 11-09-18, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
Good detective work again. This one has the correct trigger shifter. By then, the graphics were only printed on without embossing and flipped around to face upward. They also changed from the threaded ferrule to the ball type. White grips and cable housings were the fashion in the early 60s. This person changed the stem for a longer reach and ended up with the same problem of the shifter cable being too short. I've never seen this fork crown cap on any other Raleighs. Seems to be unique to Royals as far as I know.
Boy, you guys are good! I'm learning so much! Thank you. Here's the shifter on mine, I see it's GB patent, the one on that one says US. How do you know which is correct?
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Old 11-09-18, 05:47 PM
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You see a number of Birmingham fork crowns on the 2nd tier marques in the early 60's timeframe. Raleigh chose to not throw away old stock and repurposed them into Nottingham models.

62 Dunelts






Hawthorne Herc


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Old 11-09-18, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
Boy, you guys are good! I'm learning so much! Thank you. Here's the shifter on mine, I see it's GB patent, the one on that one says US. How do you know which is correct?
Ah! Nice. Yours has the earlier style shifter. I much prefer these. 62 is a close call for the change. These have embossed, chrome plated brass face plates that were such a nice detail. You never see this kind of work on a bicycle anymore.These also have the threaded ferrules which make a more solid connection to the cable housing. Instead of the later ball and keyhole connection. This ferrule has a threaded stem that screws into a threaded hole in the shifter case. There;s a blank spot on the stem so when you screw it in all the way, it will come to the blank spot and spin freely, but the threaded section will keep it from backing out. To remove it, you pull back on the ferrule and turn it until the threads engage and it will back out.
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Old 11-09-18, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
You see a number of Birmingham fork crowns on the 2nd tier marques in the early 60's timeframe. Raleigh chose to not throw away old stock and repurposed them into Nottingham models.

62 Dunelts






Hawthorne Herc


I see. I guess that also explains why you sometimes see Birmingham style mudguards on Raleigh framed Hercs in the early 60s.
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Old 11-10-18, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
Boy, you guys are good! I'm learning so much! Thank you. Here's the shifter on mine, I see it's GB patent, the one on that one says US. How do you know which is correct?
Yeah, that's a nice one.
The oil port on your BB also helps to date your bike.
These were discontinued shortly after your bike was built.
If you don't have a local bike shop, Amazon has the cable
https://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Arche...+shifter+cable
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Old 11-10-18, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Stenavpix View Post
Boy, you guys are good! I'm learning so much! Thank you. Here's the shifter on mine, I see it's GB patent, the one on that one says US. How do you know which is correct?
I think that shifter is a model GC3B that first appeared in 1956. The patent number and stamping location are consistent with that date. It was used until the early 1960's AFAIK.
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Old 11-10-18, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Yeah, that's a nice one.
The oil port on your BB also helps to date your bike.
These were discontinued shortly after your bike was built.
If you don't have a local bike shop, Amazon has the cable
https://www.amazon.com/Sturmey-Arche...+shifter+cable
That cable has the ball end ferrule, so be sure to save the threaded one on there now. Now that I think of it...since this bike is a 62, I'm not totally sure if it has the keyhole or threaded hole in the shifter body. I don't really know which change came first. The plain printed face plate without embossing or the keyhole. Well, you will be covered either way with that cable from Amazon. Another thing I like about the Amazon cable is the small cast end. They slide into the slot in the shifter cam easily. Those crimped on tubes you sometimes get tend to jam in the shifter.
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Old 11-10-18, 10:48 AM
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A quick shot of the bottom bracket bell crank mechanism for an older model Phillips roadster. This one is a 1930s-era bike, but the catalogs show they were used for a larger number of years. These screw into a specially contoured nut that goes inside the bottom bracket. The nut is of a low enough profile that it does not impinge on the spindle.

Getting the bell crank to index back into place can be tricky - I used a small, crushable lock spacer from the hardware store to index this one back into place because it kept trying to unscrew. It locks up very tightly with the spacer.

This is a cleaner-looking but somewhat more fiddly system than the more common Raleigh, which uses a saddle-style lower bell crank that fits around the frame rather than into the lower surface of the bottom bracket.





The Phillips uses a side-mount rod connection, with the upper bell crank at the head/down tube lug. This is what connects, in turn, to the lower bell crank which itself is now screwed into place.

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Old 11-10-18, 10:55 AM
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As an aside note. As you most of you know, I've been into making custom cables for my project bikes for a while. A couple years ago I splurged on a Park Tool cable cutter. I've cut quite a few cables and housings since then and that tool is just as sharp and cuts just as clean as the day I bought it. It is far superior to the older piece of junk I was using. IMO, it is positively worth a few extra bucks to buy the Park Tool.
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Old 11-10-18, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983 View Post
A quick shot of the bottom bracket bell crank mechanism for an older model Phillips roadster. This one is a 1930s-era bike, but the catalogs show they were used for a larger number of years. These screw into a specially contoured nut that goes inside the bottom bracket. The nut is of a low enough profile that it does not impinge on the spindle.

Getting the bell crank to index back into place can be tricky - I used a small, crushable lock spacer from the hardware store to index this one back into place because it kept trying to unscrew. It locks up very tightly with the spacer.

This is a cleaner-looking but somewhat more fiddly system than the more common Raleigh, which uses a saddle-style lower bell crank that fits around the frame rather than into the lower surface of the bottom bracket.

The Phillips uses a side-mount rod connection, with the upper bell crank at the head/down tube lug. This is what connects, in turn, to the lower bell crank which itself is now screwed into place.
Nice fix. Never saw this style brake linkage before. I love learning new things. Thanks for posting. Raining today. No ride for me. Wish I had a new project.
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