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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-17-19, 02:48 PM
  #19001  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
"The rough I mean completely gentrified streets of north Brooklyn were quiet as the last row of graves in the Green Wood cemetery that January morning as I set out on my latest job..."
im waaay too snowed in
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Old 01-17-19, 02:59 PM
  #19002  
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
Since you have the socket and C-clamp and PB Blaster; I would give it one more try. This time however, after you have applied pressure on the cotter, give the screw end of the clamp a few moderate taps with a hammer. Let it sit for an hour and see if the clamp can move the cotter even a little bit. I would keep at this for several hours over the course of a day, applying PB Blaster and additional pressure and taps as the cotter allows. If you can tell that the cotter is moving even a little bit, it will come out. This has worked a couple of times for me before I made a cotter press.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you may also tap lightly on the crank arm with a wooden or plastic mallet.
This above sounds worth a try, sometimes taking a slow approach works best. it will come out but it may take differing approaches to achieve the result.
Rudge were a great make before they were taken over by Raleigh.
See extract below from Classic Rendezvous;-
"Dan Rudge built the first Rudge High bicycles in 1870. In 1894 it merged with the Whitworth Cycle Co to form Rudge-Whitworth. They made an excellent reputation for themselves over the next twenty years for producing a full range of beautifully made machines with many clever and unique features and ridden by King George V and family. Their road racers were widely used and they diversified into motorcycles in the early 20th century. In 1935 they were bought by EMI (the record company) and under Jack Lauterwasser¹s direction produced some superb top end racers as well as more mundane machines. EMI however soon decided that cycles were not for them and Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943. Raleigh had acquired Humber in 1933 and were to acquire many others after WWII and soon used the Rudge name to badge engineer what were essentially Raleigh machines with Rudge pattern fork crown and chainwheel. Hence there were Rudge versions of the Lenton and of the Clubmen. The name was finally killed sometime I think in the early 60s in Britain but may well have been used in export markets later. In Britain the name used on rebadged Montague folders in about 1989."
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Old 01-18-19, 06:23 PM
  #19003  
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Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
"Dan Rudge built the first Rudge High bicycles in 1870. In 1894 it merged with the Whitworth Cycle Co to form Rudge-Whitworth. They made an excellent reputation for themselves over the next twenty years for producing a full range of beautifully made machines with many clever and unique features and ridden by King George V and family. Their road racers were widely used and they diversified into motorcycles in the early 20th century. In 1935 they were bought by EMI (the record company) and under Jack Lauterwasser¹s direction produced some superb top end racers as well as more mundane machines. EMI however soon decided that cycles were not for them and Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943. Raleigh had acquired Humber in 1933 and were to acquire many others after WWII and soon used the Rudge name to badge engineer what were essentially Raleigh machines with Rudge pattern fork crown and chainwheel. Hence there were Rudge versions of the Lenton and of the Clubmen. The name was finally killed sometime I think in the early 60s in Britain but may well have been used in export markets later. In Britain the name used on rebadged Montague folders in about 1989."
Thanks for the bit of Rudge history. Even though a rebadged Sports, it's a nice bike. One day, maybe, the Rudge Hand chainwheel.
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Old 01-18-19, 06:37 PM
  #19004  
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That Dunelt is an odd/rare one. It has the Raleigh D fork crown which places it in the 60's, with rod brakes.

I like the Aberdale, except the bars. Looks like a 40's bike.

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Old 01-18-19, 07:54 PM
  #19005  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
WD40 is OK but for things really stuck its almost useless.

Kanolabs.com has something called Kroil. Get a can. You'll regret using it indoors- its kinda stinky. Its roughly 1000x more able to free stuck hardware than WD40 (which I still use but not if damaging the hardware is a thing).
Penetrating-Lubricating Oils

C clamps can work but a good cotter press works better. The thing about using a hammer is there's a good chance the cotter pin will be destroyed and you also risk the bearings and cups of the bottom bracket! A cotter press is mandatory if you wish to install a cotter pin (the nut is only there to retain it once pressed into place), which is what you might want to do if you get one removed

Replacement cotter pins of the same quality as the originals are getting a lot harder to find, so it really is a good idea to retain the old one and reuse it. A good cotter press makes that possible. Bikesmith Designs (Mark Stonich) makes an excellent press (recently updated to allow it to work on a wider range of cranks):
BikeSmith Design and Fabrication

Once you get used to using a press, you will find that cottered cranks are pretty well thought out and easy to set up, unlike many more modern cranks!
I agree! Reusing, or at least doing your best to reuse cotters is a very good idea. If you have a properly aligned crank with good fitting cotters, don't rock the boat unless you're forced to. The Bikesmith press rarely fails me. If the cotters do get wrecked badly Bikesmith is the place to go for replacements. It is possible to file cheap cotters, but it's a hassle getting a good fit while simultaneously getting a close 180 degree spread of the crank arms. Better to buy cotters from Mark already precisely ground to a Raleigh taper and better quality as well.
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Old 01-19-19, 07:36 AM
  #19006  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
Thanks for the bit of Rudge history. Even though a rebadged Sports, it's a nice bike. One day, maybe, the Rudge Hand chainwheel.
I am sure a set will turn up on ebay, keep watching!!!
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Old 01-19-19, 01:16 PM
  #19007  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
Hello again! Wow, this thread is a busy place. I've been lurking but not posted for a long time. I met a little discouragement on my three-speed projects is why. But: maybe prospects have improved and a three-speed project that's been postponed for, like, two years might get underway again soon. Also, I did finally sort out the shifting problems with my Rudge, by resetting and tightening the pulley and fulcrum stop. I also broke down the hub again but I have a feeling that was unnecessary. What I'm happy about is I took off the fenders and chainguard and added a rear rack and new rubber grips and entered the bike into daily commuter and around-the-city service. Not on rain days, of course. Also I opened up the bottom bracket and cleaned it up from the non-drive side and poked in new grease with a stir stick. The cotter pin on the drive side is frozen and would need to be drilled to remove it, and I don't feel like doing that just yet. I bought a little original lockring wrench, sized to fit a mini saddle bag, off ebay. It was pricey for what it is but with the help of a few taps of a hammer I can get enough torque to tighten sufficiently or loosen the lock ring. Here's a picture--not a beauty pageant winner but neither a garage queen. Maybe in the spring CR18s. Right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a resumption of work on Three-Speed Project X.
I like this bike. Although I am partial to Rudges. One of my favorite rides is a stripped down 21" Rudge semi-scorcher. It's got 590mm alloy rims, a lightweight seat and a long stem. I even sprung for a pair of long reach Tektro brake calipers. The rear was a bit too short of lever travel to suit me with these brakes, so I rigged up a couple cable stops on the top tube which allowed me to cut out 18" of housing. Very pleased with them now. Feels like power brakes. Since then, I've learned of compression-less cable housings. These might work just as well, I don't know. All in all, I think a Rudge scorcher is a fine plan.

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Old 01-19-19, 06:53 PM
  #19008  
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This would be a fun project. Unfortunate asking price. Perhaps the seller actually thinks it really is in excellent original condition. Oh well...
https://fortmyers.craigslist.org/chl...798426031.html
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Old 01-19-19, 07:10 PM
  #19009  
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I took the PX 3-speed out today before the snows started to fall.

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Old 01-19-19, 11:46 PM
  #19010  
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
I like this bike. Although I am partial to Rudges. One of my favorite rides is a stripped down 21" Rudge semi-scorcher. It's got 590mm alloy rims, a lightweight seat and a long stem. I even sprung for a pair of long reach Tektro brake calipers. The rear was a bit too short of lever travel to suit me with these brakes, so I rigged up a couple cable stops on the top tube which allowed me to cut out 18" of housing. Very pleased with them now. Feels like power brakes. Since then, I've learned of compression-less cable housings. These might work just as well, I don't know. All in all, I think a Rudge scorcher is a fine plan.

Even the original brakes work much better with alloy rims, but the Tektros must take it to a new level, as they say. There's room for 700c rims in there, isn't there? Did you consider that?
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Old 01-19-19, 11:57 PM
  #19011  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I took the PX 3-speed out today before the snows started to fall.

Jeez, I feel like my Super Secret 3 Speed Project X don't seem so special, now. Was this a PX10, once? Mine will be a more humdrum early 70s Peugeot mixte made into a 3 speed. The wheels are done (CR18s, 700c). I bought a cheap single speed crank off ebay that I now hate, so I'll probably buy something better, then I have to put in a cartridge BB, the Velo Orange, I suppose. I don't know how to find a cotterless spindle to fit the original cottered BB pieces. I also have to accumulate other bits: washers, fulcrum clip, pulley, cable and housing. By the way, did you use the anti-turn washers that are sized up for the larger slot? Where did you find them? Anyway I'll be happy with mine. There's no PX10s coming my way anytime soon. Also I want it to be a mixte. I think it's truly an irony bike, British/French, perfect for the age of Brexit.
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Old 01-20-19, 08:03 AM
  #19012  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
Even the original brakes work much better with alloy rims, but the Tektros must take it to a new level, as they say. There's room for 700c rims in there, isn't there? Did you consider that?
Not for this bike. The Kenda blackwalls are plenty good enough, but the plans for a more high performance lightweight IGH roadster have been kicking around in my head for a long time. Someday, I'll make one from an older 27" wheeled ten speed and then I would want to go 700c to take advantage of better tires. The great examples of this sort of build on this thread have been inspiring.
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Old 01-20-19, 10:00 AM
  #19013  
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Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
the plans for a more high performance lightweight IGH roadster have been kicking around in my head for a long time. Someday, I'll make one from an older 27" wheeled ten speed and then I would want to go 700c to take advantage of better tires. The great examples of this sort of build on this thread have been inspiring.
I'm on the same wavelength; that's what the Peugeot project is about. If I can just get it done and it works out, I can sell my modern mixte, which has a Shimano 8-speed hub. I've been using that bike for five years and I'm not quite a convert. It's simple on the outside and quiet, and the range of gears is fine and well spaced. I serviced it a few months ago and discovered there was no need, even after a lot of riding in the rain. The interior was full of perfectly greasy factory grease. But I don't need the wide gear range for the use I make of the bike. Worse, I can't trust the hub to hammer on it. No matter how careful the adjustment I can never trust it's not going to slip. Staying up with the cable and shift wire and making sure they are perfectly installed makes occurrences less frequent, but you just can't forget about it and ride hard. (Not that I ride like this a lot anymore, but everybody likes to or has to, sometimes.)

I sort of wish the Peugeot mixte offered a glossier frame as a foundation--you know, DB531 like nlerner's PX10, forged fork ends, something even worth a good repaint. I know some sophisticated mixtes were constructed (I saw a Mercian like that once, I suppose a custom), but I'm unlikely to ever come across one. And the Peugeot frame was another salvage job, a rusting but not ruined yet derelict locked up improperly at a parking sign. I was able to unbolt the front wheel, remove the front brake, and lift the entire bike away. Now I'm keeping my eyes peeled for another savable hub. Not that I need one, it's just becoming a compulsion.

Incidentally, I've now serviced four medium-old AW hubs ('63 to '73). Nothing inside was the least bit amiss. All they needed was a good cleanup. I know these can and sometimes do break, but how? What goes wrong?
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Old 01-20-19, 11:39 AM
  #19014  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
Jeez, I feel like my Super Secret 3 Speed Project X don't seem so special, now. Was this a PX10, once? Mine will be a more humdrum early 70s Peugeot mixte made into a 3 speed. The wheels are done (CR18s, 700c). I bought a cheap single speed crank off ebay that I now hate, so I'll probably buy something better, then I have to put in a cartridge BB, the Velo Orange, I suppose. I don't know how to find a cotterless spindle to fit the original cottered BB pieces. I also have to accumulate other bits: washers, fulcrum clip, pulley, cable and housing. By the way, did you use the anti-turn washers that are sized up for the larger slot? Where did you find them? Anyway I'll be happy with mine. There's no PX10s coming my way anytime soon. Also I want it to be a mixte. I think it's truly an irony bike, British/French, perfect for the age of Brexit.
Yup, a PX-10 conversion. More pics here. In terms of anti-rotation washers, I believe I just used the standard S-A ones as would be found on a Sports. They fit well enough in the dropouts and avoid excess rotation.

On another note, I pulled apart an S-A FM hub yesterday. It's the one that ejected its left-side indicator a couple of miles into a ride over the summer. Walked it home, hung it up, and have ignored it until yesterday. Wow, there are a lot of parts in that hub! Didn't see anything obviously amiss and threw all the parts in a box for a cold winter evening when I need a distraction.
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Old 01-20-19, 11:54 AM
  #19015  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Yup, a PX-10 conversion. More pics here. In terms of anti-rotation washers, I believe I just used the standard S-A ones as would be found on a Sports. They fit well enough in the dropouts and avoid excess rotation.

On another note, I pulled apart an S-A FM hub yesterday. It's the one that ejected its left-side indicator a couple of miles into a ride over the summer. Walked it home, hung it up, and have ignored it until yesterday. Wow, there are a lot of parts in that hub! Didn't see anything obviously amiss and threw all the parts in a box for a cold winter evening when I need a distraction.
From the look of the saddle you've put some miles on this bike. Way to go. Of FM hubs, I know nothing.
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Old 01-20-19, 11:58 AM
  #19016  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
I know these can and sometimes do break, but how? What goes wrong?
Failure to oil, literally once in a blue moon or maybe tightening the cones too much. Even then, tough to kill. Earlier hubs are considered better.
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Old 01-20-19, 02:10 PM
  #19017  
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Wishful Thinking...
Posted on Toronto Kijiji

Vintage 1966 English Dunelt Bicycle $450.00

"Selling a 1966 Dunelt bicycle in beautiful mint original unrestored condition. Made in England. The bicycle is made with Sheffield Steel, which was known for strength and quality. The company later became known as Raleigh. The bike is a classic Made in England in 66. Very rare and gold in color. It has John Bull brakes,.Sturmey Archer 3 speed shift and gears. Seat is new and high end(salle royal saddle).Also brand new Damco front rim.Brand new tires.All else is original--ready to ride or collectable -i drove all summer"

I'm glad to know it has 50 year old brake pads.....
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Old 01-20-19, 02:46 PM
  #19018  
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[QUOTE=paulb_in_bkln;20756382]From the look of the saddle you've put some miles on this bike. Way to go. /QUOTE]

Actually, I've only had it out a couple of times since building it up. That B17 saddle came on a '73 Raleigh Competition that I set up with upright bars, thumb shifters, and a new Brooks rubber saddle. I should probably put a B72 or the like on the Peugeot as that existing saddle isn't particularly comfortable over any sort of distance.
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Old 01-20-19, 03:02 PM
  #19019  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Earlier hubs are considered better.
A hub from '63 still 100% operational. How much better can something be?
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Old 01-20-19, 03:10 PM
  #19020  
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[QUOTE=nlerner;20756577]
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
From the look of the saddle you've put some miles on this bike. Way to go. /QUOTE]. I should probably put a B72 or the like on the Peugeot as that existing saddle isn't particularly comfortable over any sort of distance.
I am a fan of the B72 but it doesn't work with an integrated clamp seatpost. I tried Joe Breeze's seat sandwich converter and it broke the rails on two saddles.
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Old 01-20-19, 04:00 PM
  #19021  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
I'm on the same wavelength; that's what the Peugeot project is about. If I can just get it done and it works out, I can sell my modern mixte, which has a Shimano 8-speed hub. I've been using that bike for five years and I'm not quite a convert. It's simple on the outside and quiet, and the range of gears is fine and well spaced. I serviced it a few months ago and discovered there was no need, even after a lot of riding in the rain. The interior was full of perfectly greasy factory grease. But I don't need the wide gear range for the use I make of the bike. Worse, I can't trust the hub to hammer on it. No matter how careful the adjustment I can never trust it's not going to slip. Staying up with the cable and shift wire and making sure they are perfectly installed makes occurrences less frequent, but you just can't forget about it and ride hard. (Not that I ride like this a lot anymore, but everybody likes to or has to, sometimes.)

I sort of wish the Peugeot mixte offered a glossier frame as a foundation--you know, DB531 like nlerner's PX10, forged fork ends, something even worth a good repaint. I know some sophisticated mixtes were constructed (I saw a Mercian like that once, I suppose a custom), but I'm unlikely to ever come across one. And the Peugeot frame was another salvage job, a rusting but not ruined yet derelict locked up improperly at a parking sign. I was able to unbolt the front wheel, remove the front brake, and lift the entire bike away. Now I'm keeping my eyes peeled for another savable hub. Not that I need one, it's just becoming a compulsion.

Incidentally, I've now serviced four medium-old AW hubs ('63 to '73). Nothing inside was the least bit amiss. All they needed was a good cleanup. I know these can and sometimes do break, but how? What goes wrong?
When I rebuilt my DL-1, I serviced the '63 AB hub and found that one of the planet pinions was missing teeth. The hub had been working fine though, and the broken off teeth were stuck to the greased inside wall of the hub shell. Works just as well after replacing the pinion. I don't know but maybe shifting under load could have caused this?

Every other AW or S5 hub I've opened has been good inside. I did open an unlaced early 50's AW hub recently that was quite rusty inside, but even that cleaned up well.

Last edited by arty dave; 01-20-19 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 01-20-19, 04:10 PM
  #19022  
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[QUOTE=paulb_in_bkln;20756612]
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I am a fan of the B72 but it doesn't work with an integrated clamp seatpost. I tried Joe Breeze's seat sandwich converter and it broke the rails on two saddles.
Jeebers that sucks - bad design? I'm a fan too, I've been riding the bike I put my B72 on a lot more lately, and it really works for me. I didn't like it at first, but I guess it's now reshaped itself to fit me. I need to punch some holes and lace it as it's starting to flare out a bit.
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Old 01-20-19, 06:08 PM
  #19023  
jamesj
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New saddle day for my wife.

Found a Brooks b18 Lady on eBay for 90 bucks.




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Old 01-20-19, 07:07 PM
  #19024  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
A hub from '63 still 100% operational. How much better can something be?
The 60's were a transitional time for SA as markets dwindled and the company had to focus on cost cutting and that impacted the tolerances of the parts made for their hubs. When Sunrace eventually bought all the tooling for SA hubs it was mostly worn out junk and they retooled everything, at huge expense.. Sheldon Brown's pages are essential reading.
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Old 01-20-19, 08:15 PM
  #19025  
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Originally Posted by jamesj View Post
New saddle day for my wife.

Found a Brooks b18 Lady on eBay for 90 bucks.




Very sharp looking stepthrough. What kind of kickstand it that?
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