Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-12-19, 01:07 PM
  #19051  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,563

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
I have some more detailed pictures, from all sides of this style shifter on my SA Shifters Flickr album.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150931...57686501575124
Nice collection.
gster is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 09:36 AM
  #19052  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1957 Ladies P2 Sports Roadster Serial No K651746

Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post

Just acquired this 1957 Philips Step Thru Ladies bicycle with Sturmey Archer 3 Speed. It is definitely pre 1960 when Philips were take-over by Raleigh as the Badges state made in Birmingham which would be the Philips Factory in Credenda Works in Smethwick. After Raleigh took over it changed to Nottingham. I don't know where this bike has been but it is in remarkable condition and should clean up well needing no refinishing at all just a good clean and wax polish, maybe new brake and 3 Speed cables.
My wife is going to love this bike!!!!.
I have now stripped this bicycle to last nut & bolt (except wheels). I checked the Philips Catalogue in Veteran Cycle Club's Library for 1957 and established the bike is a P2 Ladies Sports Light Roadster (The Mens version was a P1) On inspection I have found there is a problem with the SW 3 Speed which is missing the 'telltale' and needs to be dismantled to clean and inspect anyway so I will know more once it is apart. I have obtained two further 1957 SW Hubs, one in apparent good condition and one not so but can be raided for spare parts, I also found a NOS Telltale and gear change spindle on eBay which is on its way currently (I was amazed to find this).

I cannot believe how little the bike has suffered considering its age, the paintwork has only minor damage typical on a bike used for a few years only. It must have been stored in a very dry place. for example, the inside on the mudguards had a small amount of dirt which when wiped off revealed the paint full intact, I removed the Chrome Nose from the front mudguard to de rust the inside. Everything dismantled easily and a couple of days soaking in white vinegar has cleaned all the chrome and removed any rust.

The headstock, pedals and bottom bracket bearings were completely dried out with the remains of the grease falling out as dust, fortunately it has not been ridden in this condition as the bearing surfaces are all good and will be re-used with new balls.

The brake cables are beyond redemption however and replacements are unobtainable in my searches so far here in USA but in February I return to the UK and I expect my local bike shop there will be able to find some with correct nipples. I have already found a NOS 3 Speed cable and replacement Sturmey Archer gear changer as the one on the bike has been badly bent & damaged from leaning against a wall as illustrated in recent discussion above.

I have compounded the frame and the paint which was flat and dull has come up well and nows has a shine, I was careful not to damage the transfers so those areas are not a shiny as areas that had none but I am happy with how it looks. I plan to clear lacquer the painted parts which should improve its looks and protect the paint and transfers. I will also inject the frame with 'J. P. Weigles - Bicycle Frame Saver' as the climate here in North Carolina is very humid and it will prevent internal corrosion of the frame.

The wheels I have not touched yet but they only have minor pitting of the chrome rims and hubs are in nice condition. I will deal with them when I come back to USA in May/June




Ready to start dismantling


The Paint was dull, compounded as much as I dare without losing transfers.


Headstock polished up OK.


These were partially lost when I received the bike.


Down tube transfer survived very light compounding OK.


As also the Philips Transfer.


Serial Number K651746.


Bottom Bracket (dry as a bone) surprisingly is fine and re usable. Original Philips axle.


The chrome has survived in remarkable condition, 2 days in white vinegar has removed corrosion.


mudguards & chain guard ready for compounding have virtually no rust, inside or out.
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 04:49 PM
  #19053  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,840
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1052 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
That looks like it's going to turn out really nice. Good job! Sometimes getting the correct cables can be tricky. Custom cables can be made if you have any problems finding originals.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 06:52 PM
  #19054  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,563

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
I have now stripped this bicycle to last nut & bolt (except wheels). I checked the Philips Catalogue in Veteran Cycle Club's Library for 1957 and established the bike is a P2 Ladies Sports Light Roadster (The Mens version was a P1) On inspection I have found there is a problem with the SW 3 Speed which is missing the 'telltale' and needs to be dismantled to clean and inspect anyway so I will know more once it is apart. I have obtained two further 1957 SW Hubs, one in apparent good condition and one not so but can be raided for spare parts, I also found a NOS Telltale and gear change spindle on eBay which is on its way currently (I was amazed to find this).

I cannot believe how little the bike has suffered considering its age, the paintwork has only minor damage typical on a bike used for a few years only. It must have been stored in a very dry place. for example, the inside on the mudguards had a small amount of dirt which when wiped off revealed the paint full intact, I removed the Chrome Nose from the front mudguard to de rust the inside. Everything dismantled easily and a couple of days soaking in white vinegar has cleaned all the chrome and removed any rust.

The headstock, pedals and bottom bracket bearings were completely dried out with the remains of the grease falling out as dust, fortunately it has not been ridden in this condition as the bearing surfaces are all good and will be re-used with new balls.

The brake cables are beyond redemption however and replacements are unobtainable in my searches so far here in USA but in February I return to the UK and I expect my local bike shop there will be able to find some with correct nipples. I have already found a NOS 3 Speed cable and replacement Sturmey Archer gear changer as the one on the bike has been badly bent & damaged from leaning against a wall as illustrated in recent discussion above.

I have compounded the frame and the paint which was flat and dull has come up well and nows has a shine, I was careful not to damage the transfers so those areas are not a shiny as areas that had none but I am happy with how it looks. I plan to clear lacquer the painted parts which should improve its looks and protect the paint and transfers. I will also inject the frame with 'J. P. Weigles - Bicycle Frame Saver' as the climate here in North Carolina is very humid and it will prevent internal corrosion of the frame.

The wheels I have not touched yet but they only have minor pitting of the chrome rims and hubs are in nice condition. I will deal with them when I come back to USA in May/June




Ready to start dismantling


The Paint was dull, compounded as much as I dare without losing transfers.


Headstock polished up OK.


These were partially lost when I received the bike.


Down tube transfer survived very light compounding OK.


As also the Philips Transfer.


Serial Number K651746.


Bottom Bracket (dry as a bone) surprisingly is fine and re usable. Original Philips axle.


The chrome has survived in remarkable condition, 2 days in white vinegar has removed corrosion.


mudguards & chain guard ready for compounding have virtually no rust, inside or out.
Nice looking project.
Didn't know about the vinegar trick..
I'll give it a try.
gster is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 08:11 PM
  #19055  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,840
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1052 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by gster View Post
Nice looking project.
Didn't know about the vinegar trick..
I'll give it a try.
Yes, vinegar is another step milder than Evapo-rust and is the only thing I would use to get rust stains off a shifter faceplate. The chrome there is very fragile. Never use abrasives. It's not the usual type of chrome plating. It's almost like it was printed on somehow. The back of the plate is bare brass and even the embossed areas aren't plated. If the color comes off, you can see there's no plating underneath. By the way, I can repair that shifter. If the bend is towards the back, the repair won't be noticeable. If the bend is forward and the faceplate is bent, it gets more tricky. A soft bend in the faceplate might smooth out, but there's no way to get a crease looking flat again. The colors in the embossed areas can be replaced.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Old 01-14-19, 08:50 PM
  #19056  
gster
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,563

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
Yes, vinegar is another step milder than Evapo-rust and is the only thing I would use to get rust stains off a shifter faceplate. The chrome there is very fragile. Never use abrasives. It's not the usual type of chrome plating. It's almost like it was printed on somehow. The back of the plate is bare brass and even the embossed areas aren't plated. If the color comes off, you can see there's no plating underneath. By the way, I can repair that shifter. If the bend is towards the back, the repair won't be noticeable. If the bend is forward and the faceplate is bent, it gets more tricky. A soft bend in the faceplate might smooth out, but there's no way to get a crease looking flat again. The colors in the embossed areas can be replaced.
Good advice, as always.
gster is offline  
Old 01-15-19, 02:07 PM
  #19057  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
Yes, vinegar is another step milder than Evapo-rust and is the only thing I would use to get rust stains off a shifter faceplate. The chrome there is very fragile. Never use abrasives. It's not the usual type of chrome plating. It's almost like it was printed on somehow. The back of the plate is bare brass and even the embossed areas aren't plated. If the color comes off, you can see there's no plating underneath. By the way, I can repair that shifter. If the bend is towards the back, the repair won't be noticeable. If the bend is forward and the faceplate is bent, it gets more tricky. A soft bend in the faceplate might smooth out, but there's no way to get a crease looking flat again. The colors in the embossed areas can be replaced.
Hi Big Chief: You mention repairing the Shifter, thank you, unfortunately it is very badly bent on the front face, so much so that the engraved plate is badly bent and the pallet behind has a double kink. Overall too much damage to achieve a presentable result, even if I totally dismantled it to separate the plates to try and straighten the front plate. I have obtained an NOS claiming to be of 1950's vintage but not quite identical to the one that came with the bike. I have another good condition one that has been posted to my UK address, not so good condition as the NOS one but does look identical to the one that came with the bike and could well be acceptable to use..
What I need to do is determine what is the correct shifter for this bike, there seems to be plenty around of various vintages so I will research this area, though I hardly think the shifter on the bike was replaced at any point in the past.
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-15-19, 02:29 PM
  #19058  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief View Post
That looks like it's going to turn out really nice. Good job! Sometimes getting the correct cables can be tricky. Custom cables can be made if you have any problems finding originals.
Hi Big Chief: My local bike store has been trying to help with the cables, the ones one the bike are 7.2mm Dia X 6.5mm Long but the nearest size nipples they can obtain are 7mm Dia X 6mm Long.
This is pretty close but they are sloppy in the hand lever and the cable is thinner 1.5mm so does not locate well in the outgoing slot. The original cable is 2mm Dial. My local bike dealer says my original cables are closer to Motorcycle cables, that might be route to explore.
I think perhaps I will stand a better chance in UK where these bikes are more common so I will give that a try and if I fail I will have to use what is available here which will work but is a sloppy rather than a tight fit which grates with me. Your suggestion re 'custom cables' I might explore if all else fails.

Last edited by PeterLYoung; 01-15-19 at 02:30 PM. Reason: adding text
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-15-19, 05:32 PM
  #19059  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello again! Wow, this thread is a busy place. I've been lurking but not posted for a long time. I met a little discouragement on my three-speed projects is why. But: maybe prospects have improved and a three-speed project that's been postponed for, like, two years might get underway again soon. Also, I did finally sort out the shifting problems with my Rudge, by resetting and tightening the pulley and fulcrum stop. I also broke down the hub again but I have a feeling that was unnecessary. What I'm happy about is I took off the fenders and chainguard and added a rear rack and new rubber grips and entered the bike into daily commuter and around-the-city service. Not on rain days, of course. Also I opened up the bottom bracket and cleaned it up from the non-drive side and poked in new grease with a stir stick. The cotter pin on the drive side is frozen and would need to be drilled to remove it, and I don't feel like doing that just yet. I bought a little original lockring wrench, sized to fit a mini saddle bag, off ebay. It was pricey for what it is but with the help of a few taps of a hammer I can get enough torque to tighten sufficiently or loosen the lock ring. Here's a picture--not a beauty pageant winner but neither a garage queen. Maybe in the spring CR18s. Right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a resumption of work on Three-Speed Project X.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-15-19, 05:35 PM
  #19060  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PS It continues to amaze and even chagrin me somewhat the nice old Raleighs many of you folks can pick up in second cities for such reasonable prices. Here, you can't get a rideable Sports for under $150, that I can see, and even at that price if it has steel rims they will be pretty rusted out.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-16-19, 12:39 PM
  #19061  
56ford
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 46

Bikes: 1953 Hercules, Late 50' Hercules Tourist, 1997 Raleigh M-40

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A couple vintage 3 speeds on CL here locally (St. Louis, MO)
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d/saint-louis-the-aberdale-feather/6778432576.html

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d/saint-ann-1930s-to-40s-dunelt-bicycle/6772024492.html
56ford is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 09:48 AM
  #19062  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This must have been covered already, but I can't remember the answer. When the SA hubs came from the factory, was there grease on the bearings or did SA intend for those to be lubed by oil dripped into the oil port? I use grease on the bearings when I service a hub. Can't see the harm.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 10:12 AM
  #19063  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
This must have been covered already, but I can't remember the answer. When the SA hubs came from the factory, was there grease on the bearings or did SA intend for those to be lubed by oil dripped into the oil port? I use grease on the bearings when I service a hub. Can't see the harm.
I have read that some grease the outer bearings when re assembling their three speed hubs as a way of getting better oil retention in the hubs, can't see that does any harm. I have a couple to rebuild and that's is what I am going to do.
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 10:24 AM
  #19064  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
Hello again! Wow, this thread is a busy place. I've been lurking but not posted for a long time. I met a little discouragement on my three-speed projects is why. But: maybe prospects have improved and a three-speed project that's been postponed for, like, two years might get underway again soon. Also, I did finally sort out the shifting problems with my Rudge, by resetting and tightening the pulley and fulcrum stop. I also broke down the hub again but I have a feeling that was unnecessary. What I'm happy about is I took off the fenders and chainguard and added a rear rack and new rubber grips and entered the bike into daily commuter and around-the-city service. Not on rain days, of course. Also I opened up the bottom bracket and cleaned it up from the non-drive side and poked in new grease with a stir stick. The cotter pin on the drive side is frozen and would need to be drilled to remove it, and I don't feel like doing that just yet. I bought a little original lockring wrench, sized to fit a mini saddle bag, off ebay. It was pricey for what it is but with the help of a few taps of a hammer I can get enough torque to tighten sufficiently or loosen the lock ring. Here's a picture--not a beauty pageant winner but neither a garage queen. Maybe in the spring CR18s. Right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a resumption of work on Three-Speed Project X.
Regarding your jammed in Cotter Pin. You may already have done all these things but I will at risk of teaching 'Grandma to suck eggs' state the following;
1) Soak with WD40 or similar for several days allowing time for the oil to soak right through.
2) Get the Bottom Bracket resting on a decent block of wood so it is firmly supported.
3) Loosen the nut so there is a gap around 1/32" to 1/16" under the nut.
4) Get a good quality 3/8" socket extension about 8" to 10" long and a 4lb Club Hammer.
5) Place the female end of the socket extension over the nut, it will centre on the nut if slightly dished and this allows a well placed sharp blow without risk to bike or you.
6) Once it has moved keep loosening the nut a turn or two at a time and giving it sharp blows until the cotter pin comes out.
I have done this many times and it has always ultimately worked without damaging the cotter pin. If you try to hit the nut itself with the bike on its tires it cushions the blow making it less effective plus you are liable to bend the threaded part of the cotter pin.
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 10:30 AM
  #19065  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
Regarding your jammed in Cotter Pin. You may already have done all these things but I will at risk of teaching 'Grandma to suck eggs' state the following;
1) Soak with WD40 or similar for several days allowing time for the oil to soak right through.
2) Get the Bottom Bracket resting on a decent block of wood so it is firmly supported.
3) Loosen the nut so there is a gap around 1/32" to 1/16" under the nut.
4) Get a good quality 3/8" socket extension about 8" to 10" long and a 4lb Club Hammer.
5) Place the female end of the socket extension over the nut, it will centre on the nut if slightly dished and this allows a well placed sharp blow without risk to bike or you.
6) Once it has moved keep loosening the nut a turn or two at a time and giving it sharp blows until the cotter pin comes out.
I have done this many times and it has always ultimately worked without damaging the cotter pin. If you try to hit the nut itself with the bike on its tires it cushions the blow making it less effective plus you are liable to bend the threaded part of the cotter pin.
I know! You'd think all this would work! But I tried all these things and no dice. I also rigged a sort of cotter extractor using a C-clamp and that was useless, too.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 11:12 AM
  #19066  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Product of my latest scavenging, from an abandoned blue step thru. A 5 am visit to avoid witnesses and The Man. It's bad enough the bikes go to the crusher; I rescue the hubs when I can. It's remarkable the exposure they can take and you open them and clean and lube and they're like good as new. Even the cogs and spacers and they're right out there. Some durable steel. This one a 40 spoke AW stamped '72.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 12:26 PM
  #19067  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
I know! You'd think all this would work! But I tried all these things and no dice. I also rigged a sort of cotter extractor using a C-clamp and that was useless, too.
You must have a really tough one, I guess in that case it’s a ‘drill out’ thogh if you remove the axle with crank you might be able to rig it up in a large vice with metal blocks and force it out by tightenin and shocking the crank with a hammer.
Regards
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 12:37 PM
  #19068  
Salubrious
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,236
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
I know! You'd think all this would work! But I tried all these things and no dice. I also rigged a sort of cotter extractor using a C-clamp and that was useless, too.
WD40 is OK but for things really stuck its almost useless.

Kanolabs.com has something called Kroil. Get a can. You'll regret using it indoors- its kinda stinky. Its roughly 1000x more able to free stuck hardware than WD40 (which I still use but not if damaging the hardware is a thing).
http://www.kanolabs.com/

C clamps can work but a good cotter press works better. The thing about using a hammer is there's a good chance the cotter pin will be destroyed and you also risk the bearings and cups of the bottom bracket! A cotter press is mandatory if you wish to install a cotter pin (the nut is only there to retain it once pressed into place), which is what you might want to do if you get one removed

Replacement cotter pins of the same quality as the originals are getting a lot harder to find, so it really is a good idea to retain the old one and reuse it. A good cotter press makes that possible. Bikesmith Designs (Mark Stonich) makes an excellent press (recently updated to allow it to work on a wider range of cranks):
BikeSmith Design and Fabrication

Once you get used to using a press, you will find that cottered cranks are pretty well thought out and easy to set up, unlike many more modern cranks!
Salubrious is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 01:11 PM
  #19069  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post


You must have a really tough one, I guess in that case it’s a ‘drill out’ thogh if you remove the axle with crank you might be able to rig it up in a large vice with metal blocks and force it out by tightenin and shocking the crank with a hammer.
Regards
The difficulty in the end is I live in an apartment in Brooklyn. I don't have a workshop. No bench or vise. I have tools but no 4-lb hammer. I did my best with what I had--Blaster penetrating catalyst spray from Home Depot (which I've found to be pretty good), something like the socket extension, and the crank propped up on wood, and a regular hammer. And the adventure with the C-clamp. I do have a drill, which is what I'll use if it becomes necessary (like if a Rudge Hand chainring comes my way for cheap, ha ha). But working from the non-drive side I got the BB quite well cleaned out and poked in plenty of fresh grease. It's smooth so I'm counting my blessings. It's the CR18s that are the tempting next step. Maybe even go 700c? I don't think I'd go back to the original steel fenders anyway.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 02:01 PM
  #19070  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 2,600

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, 81 miyata 912 and 86 miyata 312.

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
Product of my latest scavenging, from an abandoned blue step thru. A 5 am visit to avoid witnesses and The Man. It's bad enough the bikes go to the crusher; I rescue the hubs when I can. It's remarkable the exposure they can take and you open them and clean and lube and they're like good as new. Even the cogs and spacers and they're right out there. Some durable steel. This one a 40 spoke AW stamped '72.
old 3 speeds and noir go together!
52telecaster is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 02:12 PM
  #19071  
dweenk 
Senior Member
 
dweenk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,092

Bikes: 1971 Fuji Finest, Royale, S-10-S, 1976 Motobecane Mirage, 1989 Trek 330, 1100, 1970 Raleigh Sport, and more

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
The difficulty in the end is I live in an apartment in Brooklyn. I don't have a workshop. No bench or vise. I have tools but no 4-lb hammer. I did my best with what I had--Blaster penetrating catalyst spray from Home Depot (which I've found to be pretty good), something like the socket extension, and the crank propped up on wood, and a regular hammer. And the adventure with the C-clamp. I do have a drill, which is what I'll use if it becomes necessary (like if a Rudge Hand chainring comes my way for cheap, ha ha). But working from the non-drive side I got the BB quite well cleaned out and poked in plenty of fresh grease. It's smooth so I'm counting my blessings. It's the CR18s that are the tempting next step. Maybe even go 700c? I don't think I'd go back to the original steel fenders anyway.
Since you have the socket and C-clamp and PB Blaster; I would give it one more try. This time however, after you have applied pressure on the cotter, give the screw end of the clamp a few moderate taps with a hammer. Let it sit for an hour and see if the clamp can move the cotter even a little bit. I would keep at this for several hours over the course of a day, applying PB Blaster and additional pressure and taps as the cotter allows. If you can tell that the cotter is moving even a little bit, it will come out. This has worked a couple of times for me before I made a cotter press.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you may also tap lightly on the crank arm with a wooden or plastic mallet.
__________________
"The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

Last edited by dweenk; 01-17-19 at 02:17 PM.
dweenk is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 02:24 PM
  #19072  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
old 3 speeds and noir go together!
"The rough I mean completely gentrified streets of north Brooklyn were quiet as the last row of graves in the Green Wood cemetery that January morning as I set out on my latest job..."
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 02:48 PM
  #19073  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 2,600

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, 81 miyata 912 and 86 miyata 312.

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln View Post
"The rough I mean completely gentrified streets of north Brooklyn were quiet as the last row of graves in the Green Wood cemetery that January morning as I set out on my latest job..."
im waaay too snowed in
52telecaster is offline  
Old 01-17-19, 02:59 PM
  #19074  
PeterLYoung 
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 192

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)2012 Trek Fuel EX7. 4)1974 Colnago Super, 5)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 6)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 7)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 8)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 9)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 10)1948 Humber Clubman.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
Since you have the socket and C-clamp and PB Blaster; I would give it one more try. This time however, after you have applied pressure on the cotter, give the screw end of the clamp a few moderate taps with a hammer. Let it sit for an hour and see if the clamp can move the cotter even a little bit. I would keep at this for several hours over the course of a day, applying PB Blaster and additional pressure and taps as the cotter allows. If you can tell that the cotter is moving even a little bit, it will come out. This has worked a couple of times for me before I made a cotter press.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you may also tap lightly on the crank arm with a wooden or plastic mallet.
This above sounds worth a try, sometimes taking a slow approach works best. it will come out but it may take differing approaches to achieve the result.
Rudge were a great make before they were taken over by Raleigh.
See extract below from Classic Rendezvous;-
"Dan Rudge built the first Rudge High bicycles in 1870. In 1894 it merged with the Whitworth Cycle Co to form Rudge-Whitworth. They made an excellent reputation for themselves over the next twenty years for producing a full range of beautifully made machines with many clever and unique features and ridden by King George V and family. Their road racers were widely used and they diversified into motorcycles in the early 20th century. In 1935 they were bought by EMI (the record company) and under Jack Lauterwasser¹s direction produced some superb top end racers as well as more mundane machines. EMI however soon decided that cycles were not for them and Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943. Raleigh had acquired Humber in 1933 and were to acquire many others after WWII and soon used the Rudge name to badge engineer what were essentially Raleigh machines with Rudge pattern fork crown and chainwheel. Hence there were Rudge versions of the Lenton and of the Clubmen. The name was finally killed sometime I think in the early 60s in Britain but may well have been used in export markets later. In Britain the name used on rebadged Montague folders in about 1989."
PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-18-19, 06:23 PM
  #19075  
paulb_in_bkln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 471

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
"Dan Rudge built the first Rudge High bicycles in 1870. In 1894 it merged with the Whitworth Cycle Co to form Rudge-Whitworth. They made an excellent reputation for themselves over the next twenty years for producing a full range of beautifully made machines with many clever and unique features and ridden by King George V and family. Their road racers were widely used and they diversified into motorcycles in the early 20th century. In 1935 they were bought by EMI (the record company) and under Jack Lauterwasser¹s direction produced some superb top end racers as well as more mundane machines. EMI however soon decided that cycles were not for them and Rudge was sold to Raleigh in 1943. Raleigh had acquired Humber in 1933 and were to acquire many others after WWII and soon used the Rudge name to badge engineer what were essentially Raleigh machines with Rudge pattern fork crown and chainwheel. Hence there were Rudge versions of the Lenton and of the Clubmen. The name was finally killed sometime I think in the early 60s in Britain but may well have been used in export markets later. In Britain the name used on rebadged Montague folders in about 1989."
Thanks for the bit of Rudge history. Even though a rebadged Sports, it's a nice bike. One day, maybe, the Rudge Hand chainwheel.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.