Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 03-06-19, 06:25 PM
  #19401  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
Black dynohubs... used up all their war time parts by the mid 50’s?
My 51 Rudge has the black Dyno Hub. Black cable clips and black bolts on the mudguard stays and rear mudguard to frame mount. Every hub I've seen from 1954 on was chromed. So the change happened sometime between then. Notice the little Rs on the spoke heads.

BigChief is offline  
Old 03-06-19, 07:08 PM
  #19402  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,857

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2299 Post(s)
Liked 2,061 Times in 1,258 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
Black dynohubs... used up all their war time parts by the mid 50s?
Like BigChief, I've never seen one after 52. Oddly, my '51 is a 36 hole.
clubman is offline  
Old 03-06-19, 07:13 PM
  #19403  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,857

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2299 Post(s)
Liked 2,061 Times in 1,258 Posts
Originally Posted by Ged117
Hello all, I've run into a snag or two. The retaining nut is broken on the rear brake cable clamp. The front brake threaded cable bolt is broken in half. 70 years take their toll. Would a late '60s parts bike have direct replacements?
The double ended cables were phased out in the early 60's. Your problem is getting the right one. Different models and frame sizes required different lengths, especially for the rear brake.
clubman is offline  
Old 03-06-19, 09:03 PM
  #19404  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman
The double ended cables were phased out in the early 60's. Your problem is getting the right one. Different models and frame sizes required different lengths, especially for the rear brake.
This is going to be more complex than replacing the ball end cable. Ged has the original braided cable casings to preserve. It looks, from the picture, that the ball end may fit through the threaded hole in the broken stud. If it does, it would just be a matter of finding another ball end cable and using only the stud to make the repair. If it doesn't, it would still mean buying a ball end cable to rob the stud from and making up a new inner cable. A knarp could be used in place of the ball end or the original ball removed and silver soldered onto the new cable. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't trust 60/40 or tin solder on a brake cable.
BigChief is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 03:58 AM
  #19405  
Newbie
 
oldveloman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 65

Bikes: 1951-2 BSA 900E Roadster, 1961 Triumph Sports, 1953 Raleigh Sports, 1981 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Twenty, 1951 Taxandria, 1950 The Gold Lion Tandem

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman
Lovely bike and +1 on the drum brakes. The ATE single discs of the late 70's were the hydraulic equivalent to rod brakes.
Not British but a great ride. '72 R75/5
Those single disks were chromium plated, what made them bad performers overall, but completely useless in damp weather.

Peter
oldveloman is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 04:54 AM
  #19406  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by oldveloman
Those single disks were chromium plated, what made them bad performers overall, but completely useless in damp weather.

Peter
I remember those. They were a step down from the twin leading shoe brakes of the late 60s. People ask me if I feel unsafe riding with old fashioned drum brakes. In fact, they are quite good. Thing is, unlike bicycles, the older bikes were much lighter than they are today. My Bonnie weighs 375 pounds wet. I sat on a new version and it was a whole lot more than that. I didn't want to take it on a test ride. Felt like a tank. Besides they now shift on the wrong side.
BigChief is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 08:14 AM
  #19407  
Senior Member
 
Ged117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 583

Bikes: 1951 Sun Wasp, 1953 Armstrong Consort, 1975 Raleigh Competition, 1980 Apollo Gran Sport, 1988 Schwinn Voyageur, Mystery MTB

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 193 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
This is going to be more complex than replacing the ball end cable. Ged has the original braided cable casings to preserve. It looks, from the picture, that the ball end may fit through the threaded hole in the broken stud. If it does, it would just be a matter of finding another ball end cable and using only the stud to make the repair. If it doesn't, it would still mean buying a ball end cable to rob the stud from and making up a new inner cable. A knarp could be used in place of the ball end or the original ball removed and silver soldered onto the new cable. Just my opinion, but I wouldn't trust 60/40 or tin solder on a brake cable.
The original braided cable casings are in excellent shape and require cleaning only. In fact, I would like to retain and clean / lube the original cables too. The ball end does indeed fit through the threaded hole in the broken stud. The stud I need for the rear, the threaded bolt on the end of the cable I need for the front. They crumbled in my hands after gingerly taking them apart (and after a day or so in Liquidwrench). I have a line on a derelict 1968 Sports (I eyeballed the hub...) and I believe I will get the parts from it, among other things. It amuses me that I am already thinking about my next three-speed project...a Gitane Reynolds 531 AKA poor man's Raleigh Lenton. I'd like to buy a '50s FW four-speed from British ebay, but perhaps the derelict bike's '68 AW will be OK.
Ged117 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 08:46 AM
  #19408  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Here's a Raleigh Folder that appeared on Kijij, Toronto
Asking price $160.00

gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:02 AM
  #19409  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by Ged117
The original braided cable casings are in excellent shape and require cleaning only. In fact, I would like to retain and clean / lube the original cables too. The ball end does indeed fit through the threaded hole in the broken stud. The stud I need for the rear, the threaded bolt on the end of the cable I need for the front. They crumbled in my hands after gingerly taking them apart (and after a day or so in Liquidwrench). I have a line on a derelict 1968 Sports (I eyeballed the hub...) and I believe I will get the parts from it, among other things. It amuses me that I am already thinking about my next three-speed project...a Gitane Reynolds 531 AKA poor man's Raleigh Lenton. I'd like to buy a '50s FW four-speed from British ebay, but perhaps the derelict bike's '68 AW will be OK.
I generally replace the old style calipers with the "new" versions so that I can run regular brake cables.
I have a couple of bikes with the original old style but have found NOS cables almost impossible to find and
also very expensive if found.
Also, as stated, so many different lengths..
I bought a NOS shifter cable at a swap meet.
It's too short for anything other that a chopper style bike.
Also, as stated earlier, keep the original cable housings and
replace the cable.
The original casings curve and "hug" the frame in a more elegant manner.
Here's an example of a cable that is probably too short, not to mention the messes up routing...

I tend to cut my cables a bit longer than stock and give them a nice sweep around the bars..

gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:07 AM
  #19410  
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 9,360

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1950 Post(s)
Liked 1,095 Times in 648 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
Here's a Raleigh Folder that appeared on Kijij, Toronto
Asking price $160.00

Nice looking! Did the Canadian models all come with painted mudguards? I am in talks with someone close who has a Canadian model with the painted instead of chrome MGs.
3speedslow is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:15 AM
  #19411  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
With all this talk of British motorbikes/bicycles, of which I've had/have several,
I've never owned a British car...
The closest I came was a German built Merkur yeras ago which went like stink
until the turbo blew...
I literally left it at the side of the road, told my mechanic it was his if he picked
it up and, thankfully never saw it again.
I got a ride back to the city and went to a sketchy used car lot and bought
a very nice 1991 BMW 318is.

I killed this one as well....
gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:25 AM
  #19412  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow


Nice looking! Did the Canadian models all come with painted mudguards? I am in talks with someone close who has a Canadian model with the painted instead of chrome MGs.
I don't know the answer..
These were also sold here under the Supercycle brand.
Most of which, were coffee coloured.
Her's one with chromed MG's

Here's a green one

Last edited by gster; 03-07-19 at 09:31 AM.
gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:30 AM
  #19413  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
A knarp could be used in place of the ball end or the original ball removed and silver soldered onto the new cable.
My '52 Raleigh came with knarps in place. I had never seen the like before, nor had I ever heard of a knarp. I am moving forward under the assumption that a knarp is a good choice for solving the problem.
carfreefamily is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 10:34 AM
  #19414  
Senior Member
 
Ged117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 583

Bikes: 1951 Sun Wasp, 1953 Armstrong Consort, 1975 Raleigh Competition, 1980 Apollo Gran Sport, 1988 Schwinn Voyageur, Mystery MTB

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 193 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
I generally replace the old style calipers with the "new" versions so that I can run regular brake cables.
I have a couple of bikes with the original old style but have found NOS cables almost impossible to find and
also very expensive if found.
Also, as stated, so many different lengths..
I bought a NOS shifter cable at a swap meet.
It's too short for anything other that a chopper style bike.
Also, as stated earlier, keep the original cable housings and
replace the cable.
The original casings curve and "hug" the frame in a more elegant manner.
Here's an example of a cable that is probably too short, not to mention the messes up routing...

I tend to cut my cables a bit longer than stock and give them a nice sweep around the bars..
I'll see what happens with the derelict Sports. Perhaps I'll use the newer calipers on my machine so that I can replace the cables easily. I suppose that is a good idea if I continue with my plan to use the Superbe as a sunny day work commuter once completed. It will be fun and gratifying to have the bike returned to serving its original purpose after so many decades.
Ged117 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 10:55 AM
  #19415  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by carfreefamily
My '52 Raleigh came with knarps in place. I had never seen the like before, nor had I ever heard of a knarp. I am moving forward under the assumption that a knarp is a good choice for solving the problem.
Some have gone overboard and been forced to join
"Knarpaholics Annonymous"....
gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 01:17 PM
  #19416  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
I generally replace the old style calipers with the "new" versions so that I can run regular brake cables.
I have a couple of bikes with the original old style but have found NOS cables almost impossible to find and
also very expensive if found.
Also, as stated, so many different lengths..
I bought a NOS shifter cable at a swap meet.
It's too short for anything other that a chopper style bike.
Also, as stated earlier, keep the original cable housings and
replace the cable.
The original casings curve and "hug" the frame in a more elegant manner.
Here's an example of a cable that is probably too short, not to mention the messes up routing...

I tend to cut my cables a bit longer than stock and give them a nice sweep around the bars..

I've been routing the brake cables English style (right front) on my roadsters because I like the way the cables make a clean, symmetrical cross in front of the handlebar. I think the calipers were designed with the cable connection on the left for this reason. Right rear cable routing looks awkward to me and I'm used to right/front braking on my DL-1 anyway.

BigChief is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 02:33 PM
  #19417  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
I've been routing the brake cables English style (right front) on my roadsters because I like the way the cables make a clean, symmetrical cross in front of the handlebar. I think the calipers were designed with the cable connection on the left for this reason. Right rear cable routing looks awkward to me and I'm used to right/front braking on my DL-1 anyway.

I may try that configuration on my next build.
On the motorbikes your front brake is on the right.
gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 04:11 PM
  #19418  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,857

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2299 Post(s)
Liked 2,061 Times in 1,258 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
I don't know the answer..
These were also sold here under the Supercycle brand.
Most of which, were coffee coloured.
Her's one with chromed MG's

Here's a green one
The rebrands usually got the chrome mudguards so it was an easy colour match, like the Sports models. I've seen the SuperCycle Twenty's in coffee, gold and bronze green as well but I think it had green mudguards. Someone else sold a rebranded Twenty in Canada but it escapes me, maybe a Glider.
clubman is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 04:24 PM
  #19419  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman
The rebrands usually got the chrome mudguards so it was an easy colour match, like the Sports models. I've seen the SuperCycle Twenty's in coffee, gold and bronze green as well but I think it had green mudguards. Someone else sold a rebranded Twenty in Canada but it escapes me, maybe a Glider.
Here's an Eatons Road King folder.
I can't tell if it's a Raleigh or not
gster is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 08:31 PM
  #19420  
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2647 Post(s)
Liked 2,451 Times in 1,558 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
I may try that configuration on my next build.
On the motorbikes your front brake is on the right.
Those of the hard core keep it edgy; motorcycle front brake on the right, bicycle front brake on the left.
thumpism is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 08:51 PM
  #19421  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 660

Bikes: 1983 Trek 600, 1972 Raleigh Sports Step Thru, 1963 Rudge Sports, 2007 Dahon MuP8, Dahon Speed, Public Mixte 8-speed IGH, mid-70s Peugeot Mixte AW conversion, Riv Platypus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
Some have gone overboard and been forced to join
"Knarpaholics Annonymous"....
Knarpahol. Bad news.
paulb_in_bkln is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 08:58 PM
  #19422  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,857

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2299 Post(s)
Liked 2,061 Times in 1,258 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
Here's an Eatons Road King folder.
I can't tell if it's a Raleigh or not
Looks French if I had to guess, not a Raleigh. Shimano drivetrain may say otherwise. Surprising number of eastern European folders in Toronto, which is maybe not too surprising given the demographics. Lots of small Polish bikes back in the day.
clubman is offline  
Old 03-08-19, 05:40 AM
  #19423  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman
Looks French if I had to guess, not a Raleigh. Shimano drivetrain may say otherwise. Surprising number of eastern European folders in Toronto, which is maybe not too surprising given the demographics. Lots of small Polish bikes back in the day.
There's no truss supporting the joint on the main tube...daring, those French.
BigChief is offline  
Old 03-08-19, 08:21 AM
  #19424  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
There's no truss supporting the joint on the main tube...daring, those French.
Yes, when Eatons switched their house brand from Glider to Road King Raleigh was no longer the supplier.
Around 1974/75.
gster is offline  
Old 03-09-19, 09:57 AM
  #19425  
Senior Member
 
Ged117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 583

Bikes: 1951 Sun Wasp, 1953 Armstrong Consort, 1975 Raleigh Competition, 1980 Apollo Gran Sport, 1988 Schwinn Voyageur, Mystery MTB

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 193 Posts
Parts

Hi fellows. The derelict fell through. It is slim pickings around here for Raleigh models (frankly any vintage bicycles of interest). I am in need of the clips for the chain guard since the bike came with the original guard unattached. As well as some newer brake specimens to make it road ready. Is there an online place where I could find these sort of items? There's another derelict locked up downtown that has sat for ages...but it is u-locked.
Ged117 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.