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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 07-08-19, 05:26 PM
  #20876  
JohnDThompson 
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Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
I have been restoring in the USA a 1957 Phillips Model P2 Sp It has the notorious Sturmey Archer SW in which the pawls act by cam action with no springs to return them. When I went back to UK in February I managed to obtain two of these hubs which seem to appear rarely on eBay (from my experience). One was in apparent excellent condition and the other poor but useful to raid for parts. So I brought these back to USA a couple of weeks back and since have dismantled the wheels to have them rebuilt with the original cleaned up front hub and the better of the two SW hubs.
I have several SW hubs here. The nice thing about them is they have fewer internal parts than the AW (and no fiddly pawl springs to go missing), so they're dead-easy to overhaul. The springless pawls do take some getting used to; the hub is eerie quiet when coasting (which I like), but it often takes longer than you expect for the pawls to engage. This effect is exacerbated by cold temperatures. When it gets below freezing it can take a couple complete crank revolutions for the pawls to engage. I've relegated my SWs to summer duty only. The gear range is somewhat wider than the AW, which you may or may not like.

N.B. I do have some extra SW parts here as well (planet gears, clutch, driver, etc.) and some two piece indicator rods. A couple of my SWs use the typical one piece indicator rod, but a couple others use the two-piece rod. Go figure.
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Old 07-09-19, 04:41 PM
  #20877  
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Pedal Help

Ok- caught up on this one over the last couple weeks. Havenít posted on this thread since #13744 - continues to amaze in the finds, knowledge, etc.

One thing I havenít seen covered which bothers me with my matched Ď68 Superbeís are the pedals. Those that are on the bikes are re-buildable which is great. The problem I have is that I canít keep the rubber blocks from rotating around the spindles. This wouldnít be an issue for me except that these have reflectors on every other surface and it bugs me that they wonít stay put!

Any ideas on how to keep from rotating?

Other than that, canít get enough time on my Superbe. Unfortunately, this does not leave much time for the Ď73 Sports or the Twenty that I have, but such is life...
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Old 07-09-19, 06:18 PM
  #20878  
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Tall Sports with a new Brooks!

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/d...929809002.html

Raleigh Sport 3 speed men's bike - $150 (Shakopee)


bicycle frame material: steel
bicycle type: road
condition: excellent
frame size: Medium
make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: Sport
wheel size: 26 in
Sell my old Raleigh men's bike. I don't know alot about the specs, but it has a Sturmy Archer 3 speed rear hub and 26" wheels/tires. Brooks saddle that hasn't been ridden enough to be broke in. I just used this for short trips around town and all works great. Let me know if you'd like to check it out.
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Old 07-09-19, 08:52 PM
  #20879  
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Originally Posted by jungwiar View Post
Ok- caught up on this one over the last couple weeks. Havenít posted on this thread since #13744 - continues to amaze in the finds, knowledge, etc.

One thing I havenít seen covered which bothers me with my matched Ď68 Superbeís are the pedals. Those that are on the bikes are re-buildable which is great. The problem I have is that I canít keep the rubber blocks from rotating around the spindles. This wouldnít be an issue for me except that these have reflectors on every other surface and it bugs me that they wonít stay put!

Any ideas on how to keep from rotating?

Other than that, canít get enough time on my Superbe. Unfortunately, this does not leave much time for the Ď73 Sports or the Twenty that I have, but such is life...
Hmmm That must be a transitional pedal that I never noticed before. I'm always learning new things here. From the 1930s until the end, Raleigh used 3 different rubber block pedal types. Until sometime in the mid 50s they used the double quill style. Then came the flat diamond plate style. When reflectors were added, they changed to a rectangular shaped plate that clinched the block so it wouldn't rotate. I'm guessing that yours are the diamond plate style but with reflectors with nothing to keep them from rotating. So they may rotate, but they are far better looking pedals than the blocky reflector type.



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Old 07-09-19, 09:19 PM
  #20880  
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Yep BC - they are as you show for the ‘64 but with reflectors. Was hoping there was some trick to use, but will need to get creative. I think you have a database of photos, so will try to get one of them to add to it. My ‘73 sports is as shown in the last pic. Will post for your reference tomorrow.
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Old 07-09-19, 10:17 PM
  #20881  
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https://westslope.craigslist.org/bik...930298306.html
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Old 07-10-19, 09:56 AM
  #20882  
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My 67 Phillips has the nuts on the end and also the rotating blocks. If I snug the nut down it does a better job of holding the blocks in one orientation. All 4 sides look the same. I thought they would be rebuildable but apparently Raleigh cheapened them so they would not be. Still, with a healthy dose of oil, they spin fine.
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Old 07-10-19, 10:36 AM
  #20883  
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I might not be too clear so I put some pics up, we all like pics , right?

Dang cold and all the meds my dr has me on I be loopy.
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Old 07-10-19, 11:32 AM
  #20884  
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The Superbe's pedals cleaned up nicely. The bearing races were all in good shape. The blocks are a little worn, but not too bad. I like the little flourishes that the earlier models have. I've finished setting up the brakes on the Superbe with a mix of 1950 and 1979 components and I used KoolStop salmon pads. Tonight I'll throw on the chain and chain guard, set up the shifter cable (I hope I can use the original ferrule with the new cable since the 1950 shifter has the screw type), adjust, and go for a ride. The weather looks good so I'll try to take some nice photos for posting here. Very excited! The below photo is a month or so old.



A few weeks ago
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Old 07-10-19, 01:55 PM
  #20885  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
The Superbe's pedals cleaned up nicely. The bearing races were all in good shape. The blocks are a little worn, but not too bad. I like the little flourishes that the earlier models have. I've finished setting up the brakes on the Superbe with a mix of 1950 and 1979 components and I used KoolStop salmon pads. Tonight I'll throw on the chain and chain guard, set up the shifter cable (I hope I can use the original ferrule with the new cable since the 1950 shifter has the screw type), adjust, and go for a ride. The weather looks good so I'll try to take some nice photos for posting here. Very excited! The below photo is a month or so old.



A few weeks ago
Ahh, good. You still have the original double quill pedals. Those are rare these days. Wonder why since they're rebuildable. For some reason people just replaced them. Most of the older Raleighs I've seen have replaced pedals. If you're going to use a modern shift cable with a pinch bolt adapter, it won't be a problem to reuse the original threaded ferrule. If you don't like pinch bolt adapters, there's an easy way around that.
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Old 07-10-19, 04:28 PM
  #20886  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I have several SW hubs here. The nice thing about them is they have fewer internal parts than the AW (and no fiddly pawl springs to go missing), so they're dead-easy to overhaul. The springless pawls do take some getting used to; the hub is eerie quiet when coasting (which I like), but it often takes longer than you expect for the pawls to engage. This effect is exacerbated by cold temperatures. When it gets below freezing it can take a couple complete crank revolutions for the pawls to engage. I've relegated my SWs to summer duty only. The gear range is somewhat wider than the AW, which you may or may not like.

N.B. I do have some extra SW parts here as well (planet gears, clutch, driver, etc.) and some two piece indicator rods. A couple of my SWs use the typical one piece indicator rod, but a couple others use the two-piece rod. Go figure.
I think I have plenty spares at present, the hubs I have use the split indicate which if my memory is correct screw into the gear change toggle. The thing with the SW is not losing the location for each pawl when dismantling as they individually wear into their locating cup and performance can be affected if they are not returned to the correct cup. New ones are seemingly and not surprisingly unavailable!! I think the quality and viscosity of the oil used is critical. I won't know how good my SW hub is until I get the wheels back at the end of this week.
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Old 07-10-19, 07:03 PM
  #20887  
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Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
I have been restoring in the USA a 1957 Phillips Model P2 Sports step through on and off this last 9 months or so. It was in apparent good condition when I obtained it but when I stripped it I found the toggle in the 3 Speed was missing or broken inside the hub. It has the notorious Sturmey Archer SW in which the pawls act by cam action with no springs to return them. When I went back to UK in February I managed to obtain two of these hubs which seem to appear rarely on eBay (from my experience). One was in apparent excellent condition and the other poor but useful to raid for parts. So I brought these back to USA a couple of weeks back and since have dismantled the wheels to have them rebuilt with the original cleaned up front hub and the better of the two SW hubs. The rims buffed up really nice and so I expect to receive a nice pair of wheels later this week to build back into the bike.

The rest of the bike has been treated as follows:-

Frame; The paintwork was pretty good but dulled with age so I compounded much of it taking care around transfers/decals (which were very fragile) and then once cleaned up I have clear lacquered it. Same for Fenders and Chain Guard.

Components; I soaked all chromed items in White Vinegar for around 48 hours to de rust and then cleaned them up and all the parts came up very good, the chrome overall was in very good shape considering the bikes age.

Bottom Bracket, Headset, Pedals and Front Hub; Stripped, cleaned and rebuilt these replacing all the ball bearings. The bearing surfaces on these old bikes survive amazingly well.

Brake Cables; The brake cables on this bike were stuck in the outers which needed replacing. The cables are thicker than modern and the nipples are larger than modern. The brake levers do not take the modern size but I wanted to keep the levers as they are very nice. I took the cables back to the UK in the hope I might find some correct ones there but no success with this approach. I decided to have a more determined attempt at removing the old cables from the outers so I kept soaking them with WD 40 and Gasoline and eventually I managed to pull them out. I then found the old outers were the same size as modern outers though the thicker cables are a very close fit inside so I rebuilt the cables with modern outers. The amazing thing was that the cables never frayed at the ends so no problem re feeding them into the outers as they are in such good condition once cleaned up.

Will post more pics when re-assembled with rebuilt wheels and Fenders etc refitted.

Some photos below:-


Sellers original Photo.


Stripped Frame ready for Lacquer.


Parts soaking in White Vinegar to de rust.


Chain-guard & Fenders ready for Lacquer.


Bottom Bracket minimal wear just a little tracking on spindle, new balls and it will be fine.


Fragile peeling transfers, reason for Lacquer to frame.


Assembly started.


Had to replace SA Trigger due to old one badly distorted. replacement is identical to original.


Brake parts came up almost like new.


Crank set & Pedals also came up amazingly well.
Nice work!
I thought those double bolted brake levers were mostly Canadian.
I find they interfere with the trigger placement.
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Old 07-10-19, 07:07 PM
  #20888  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
The Superbe's pedals cleaned up nicely. The bearing races were all in good shape. The blocks are a little worn, but not too bad. I like the little flourishes that the earlier models have. I've finished setting up the brakes on the Superbe with a mix of 1950 and 1979 components and I used KoolStop salmon pads. Tonight I'll throw on the chain and chain guard, set up the shifter cable (I hope I can use the original ferrule with the new cable since the 1950 shifter has the screw type), adjust, and go for a ride. The weather looks good so I'll try to take some nice photos for posting here. Very excited! The below photo is a month or so old.



A few weeks ago
Looks like a nice tall Scorcher.
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Old 07-11-19, 04:49 AM
  #20889  
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Nice work!
I thought those double bolted brake levers were mostly Canadian.
I find they interfere with the trigger placement.
The 60s captive brands had those here in the US too. I also prefer the traditional single bolt type that Raleigh had been using since the 1930s and diddn't get around to ruining until the auto adjust type in the mid 70s. The good part is the calipers that came with the cheaper 2 bolt levers used regular pinch bolts instead of the ball end holders that came on official Raleighs. I should compare the two different calipers side by side sometime, but I don't think there's any real difference between them besides the pinch bolt.
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Old 07-11-19, 08:21 AM
  #20890  
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I am taking the Phillips down and storing the parts for another Sport. I used my friends old Park tool again for the cotters with much success. I was puzzled by the difference between these last two uses. My R20 was hardly used while the Phillips was ridden much. Why did the cotters in the Raleigh fight and the Phillips slide out with hard pressure?

I forgot the old trick!

before installing the press, I lightly sanded the top of the pins and notice if any burs on top. If any I was ready to file them down and hit it with 800 sandpaper again. Then, when the press went on i dabs a little grease in the depressed top end which contacts the threaded side. Worked like a charm!

i think that my pin which twisted out must have had a burr catch on top which provided the grip needed to start the twist...disaster!

anyway, now I have two very good 1967 pins to use on the R20. That and a whole bike of parts for all of $20.
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Old 07-11-19, 11:42 AM
  #20891  
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post


I am taking the Phillips down and storing the parts for another Sport. I used my friends old Park tool again for the cotters with much success. I was puzzled by the difference between these last two uses. My R20 was hardly used while the Phillips was ridden much. Why did the cotters in the Raleigh fight and the Phillips slide out with hard pressure?

I forgot the old trick!

before installing the press, I lightly sanded the top of the pins and notice if any burs on top. If any I was ready to file them down and hit it with 800 sandpaper again. Then, when the press went on i dabs a little grease in the depressed top end which contacts the threaded side. Worked like a charm!

i think that my pin which twisted out must have had a burr catch on top which provided the grip needed to start the twist...disaster!

anyway, now I have two very good 1967 pins to use on the R20. That and a whole bike of parts for all of $20.
Interesting! Makes sense too. There's a lot of pressure on that cotter. I suppose it is possible that the rotating motion of the press punch could start a bend of the threaded portion of the cotter. Then, when combined with the downward pressure... disaster as you say. It is certainly worth polishing the cotter end and adding a bit of grease just in case. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 07-11-19, 05:56 PM
  #20892  
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Mine look the same only with reflectors. FWIW - a picture.
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Old 07-11-19, 06:11 PM
  #20893  
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While I am at it - 1/2 of the fleet (ok - almost 1/2, but if I donít include the freebie Ď79 Sports and the former Nishiki MTB conversion, 1/2). Guess I am partial to the bronze green...


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Old 07-11-19, 07:15 PM
  #20894  
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Originally Posted by jungwiar View Post
Mine look the same only with reflectors. FWIW - a picture.
Thanks for the picture. In the collection it goes. I'm going to guess that the reflectors were a mandate from busy body bureaucrats and adding a single reflector to the blocks of the existing design satisfied the demand even if the reflectors only had a 1 in 4 chance of facing the right direction. Another tid bit of 3 speed history documented.
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Old 07-11-19, 08:36 PM
  #20895  
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Looks to be a 1940s (based on the trigger) Raleigh DL-1 for sale for a C-note north of Boston:

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...931966649.html
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Old 07-12-19, 06:17 AM
  #20896  
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Found an interesting (Dutch) review of 3-speed bikes from 1985. De Kampioen - June 1985, page 21
Unfortunately there is no easy way to translate this, Google books doesn't allow text to be copied and put through their translator in this case.

Some findings:
  • Virtually all bikes used aluminum Sturmey Archer 3-speed drum brakes. Some used Fichtel-Sachs.
  • Tested sizes were 57 to 60cm frames (22" to 23.5")
  • Bikes were driven over a 600km (372 miles) trip over bumpy terrain with extra weigt added over the course of this trip.
  • A bike weighing 100 kg (220 lbs), including cyclist, stops from 25 kph (15.5 mph) to 0 kph in 5 meters (16.4 ft). Both in dry and wet conditions.
  • In 1985 only 1 in 20 Dutch weighed 100 kg.
  • A bike carrying an extra 100 kg (220 lbs) spread over 3 bags on bumpy roads tends to break handlebars, rear racks, crank spindles and chain rings. But mostly handlebars.
  • None of the Sturmey Archer or Fichtel-Sachs drum brakes failed.
  • Cheapest bike in the test was fl. 360,- (Rijnland, a department store bike) - ($347 in 2019)
  • Median price was around fl. 650,- (Altra, Batavus, Bianchi, Covť, Gazelle, Peugeot, Puch, RIH, Sparta, Tomos, Union) - ($628 in 2019)
  • Most expensive bike in the test was fl. 1295,- (Koga-Miyata) - ($1253 in 2019)

Last edited by JaccoW; 07-12-19 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 07-12-19, 02:07 PM
  #20897  
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The 1972 Raleigh Sports in "root beer" is getting lots of use lately. It has surprised me with its willingness to ride longer distances. The 20 tooth cog seems to be doing the job and I have ridden the bike a lot. I had intended selling it at the CVBS but could not imagine letting it go. Instead in a separate transaction, I sold the beautiful old 1958 Sun Cresta! Its limited gear range meant I was not riding it and a good friend had been admiring it for years. So "One Brown's Lane" still has about ten bikes but some of the faces have changed.

A couple of shots of the "Root Beer Express" in the town of Simcoe on a sunny Sunday with Mrs. browngw. Although I have tried many times, she doesn't want to ride a vintage Raleigh.
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Old 07-12-19, 07:32 PM
  #20898  
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For The Love of One Particular English 3-Speed

For those of you looking for technical content, please, just skip this post.

Staying true to the theme of this thread, I am declaring my love for one particular English 3-Speed: This incredible 70 year-old Raleigh Clubman.

I've been commuting all week on this bike, and tonight after work, I took her out for a photo shoot during what is commonly called "The Golden Hour". Stopping short of poetry, I'll let these images express how I feel about this bicycle:









Have a great weekend, everyone. I know I will...

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Old 07-13-19, 11:19 AM
  #20899  
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I picked up a 3 speed Pashley Classic Roadster today for a very good price ($200.00 CDN)
Brooks saddle and Bags., drum brakes.
Photos will follow.
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Old 07-14-19, 06:18 AM
  #20900  
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My 1974 Superbe needs just a couple more goodies for it to be complete. 1) I have no key for the locking fork. 2) Need a new cotter pin for the crank—hopefully one that has the acorn nut w/ initial R on it. Anyone here know the trick to getting a key for the fork, or a new cylinder and new key? Cotter pins are likely EBay find but I think the missing key is a bit hopeful.
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