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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 09-25-19, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Re: My Failed Derailleur Project

I now know why 10 speeds have those big plastic discs on the rear wheel
and why sometimes they have a big chunk missing.
It's to stop the derailleur from smashing into the spokes...
I'd set the derailleur up with the SA throttle shifter.
Like a regular trigger it has a stop (indexed) and I thought
that the amount of travel would work the derailleur.
It didn't...
The shifter continued past the first stop pushing the derailleur
too far into the spokes.


I may re visit or wait for a proper vintage 2 cog derailleur
to show up.
Not my place to say however; maybe change the throttle shifter for a lever type friction shifter - the friction shifter would provide more of a visual reference as to where the derailleur "is" and be easier to trim. I expect its pretty hard to make small trim adjustments with the throttle shifter especially when going past the 3 speed detents. I know you will get it sorted out and look forward to a ride report. Cheers,
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Old 09-25-19, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bomarc
Not my place to say however; maybe change the throttle shifter for a lever type friction shifter - the friction shifter would provide more of a visual reference as to where the derailleur "is" and be easier to trim. I expect its pretty hard to make small trim adjustments with the throttle shifter especially when going past the 3 speed detents. I know you will get it sorted out and look forward to a ride report. Cheers,
All good points.
The problem is trying to marry a vintage British system with a vintage Japanese system.
I'll let this project lie fallow and re visit when I've thought about it a bit more.
The wheel I damaged wasn't from the A list anyway.
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Old 09-25-19, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Re: My Failed Derailleur ProjectI now know why 10 speeds have those big plastic discs on the rear wheel
and why sometimes they have a big chunk missing.
It's to stop the derailleur from smashing into the spokes...
I'd set the derailleur up with the SA throttle shifter.
Like a regular trigger it has a stop (indexed) and I thought
that the amount of travel would work the derailleur.
It didn't...
The shifter continued past the first stop pushing the derailleur
too far into the spokes.


I may re visit or wait for a proper vintage 2 cog derailleur
to show up.
I'm getting a little confused - it happens more these days. First, by "10 speed" you probably mean a vintage friction-shifted 2x5, not a modern indexed 2x10 or 3x10?

In modern bikes I don't think I've ever seen the big plastic (or metal) disks between the cassette and the spokes. We are supposed to adjust the derailleur travel limit screws to make sure the chain does not get driven into the spokes, and in my past 35 years I have not known them to fail, starting with my 2x6 1984 Trek 610. It was also the case 15 years earlier with my first 2x10 Falcon with a Campy Gran Sport. Back then we routinely had the LBS remove those (hence not looking like the dorks we were!), but I still didn't have any chain control faults.

You said (I think!) that you tried to depend on cable/shifter adjustments rather than derailleur travel limit screw setting. In this case a dork disk might help, but it's better just to set your screws correctly and check the derailleur for bending or flexing rather frequently. Or get a frame and derailleur that is higher quality, less flexible.

BTW, I'm not sure that claw is positioning that derailleur where it can shift your new sprockets correctly - it looks like the mech is pretty far behind the rear axle, and I expect that the free length of chain is too long for good shifting without a lot of overshift.

Last edited by Road Fan; 09-25-19 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 09-25-19, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
V good to know. I was thinking for the spring to upgrade my Rudge to modern wheels. Thanks.
Will the stock spokes work with those rims?

I have an Raleigh Sports that I'd like to do a light resto mod on, getting rid of the steel rims is on the list, but new spokes and rims gets a bit spendy for a bike that won't get too much use, but I would be happy at $30 per rim if could reuse spokes.
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Old 09-26-19, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jackbombay
Will the stock spokes work with those rims?
Yes! It's about the easiest thing you can do so long as none of the spoke/nipple combinations are frozen with age.
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Old 09-26-19, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
Thanks Nlerner and JaccoW. It was a few days of indecision. I'm not terribly concerned with the bike not having French wheels. I'd like to keep the Mafac brakes, which I understand wouldn't have the required longer reach were I to convert the bike to 650b. The velocity dyad 700c is not cheap, but I plan to keep this one for the long haul as my beat-around four-season commuter. I'm attached to that '53 FW alloy hub - I think it'll look really awesome laced to new wheels. 40h certainly is disappearing, which is a shame since so many of the old Sturmey hubs are 40h. There is an FC close-ratio four speed on eBay right now for a lotta money...
My experience with my Pug AW conversion was that with the stock antirotation washers I couldn't get the rear wheel to stay aligned in the frame. The washers sized for the larger slots on derailleur frames fixed that. Pick up a couple and you might save yourself some annoyance. Cheap at the price, IMO ($5 each, shipping included) on ebay.
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Old 09-26-19, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
Thanks Nlerner and JaccoW. It was a few days of indecision. I'm not terribly concerned with the bike not having French wheels. I'd like to keep the Mafac brakes, which I understand wouldn't have the required longer reach were I to convert the bike to 650b. The velocity dyad 700c is not cheap, but I plan to keep this one for the long haul as my beat-around four-season commuter. I'm attached to that '53 FW alloy hub - I think it'll look really awesome laced to new wheels. 40h certainly is disappearing, which is a shame since so many of the old Sturmey hubs are 40h. There is an FC close-ratio four speed on eBay right now for a lotta money...
BTW, my conversion was a bit simpler than yours. I already had a couple 700c CR18s sitting around from a few years ago that I'd bought for another project and never used and was able to dig up a 36-hole AW hub. It wasn't even something I'd planned; it just worked out.
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Old 09-26-19, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
Yes! It's about the easiest thing you can do so long as none of the spoke/nipple combinations are frozen with age.
Great!

Thanks!
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Old 09-26-19, 11:22 AM
  #21409  
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Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
My experience with my Pug AW conversion was that with the stock antirotation washers I couldn't get the rear wheel to stay aligned in the frame. The washers sized for the larger slots on derailleur frames fixed that. Pick up a couple and you might save yourself some annoyance. Cheap at the price, IMO ($5 each, shipping included) on ebay.
Thanks for this. I think I've seen you post this tip elsewhere. The shared experience of your project will really help this winter on my bike.

Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln
BTW, my conversion was a bit simpler than yours. I already had a couple 700c CR18s sitting around from a few years ago that I'd bought for another project and never used and was able to dig up a 36-hole AW hub. It wasn't even something I'd planned; it just worked out.
When I found the alloy four-speed, it hadn't occurred to me that finding a 40h rear wheel would be difficult. I'm happy there are options - at least for now. I'll be ordering the rims soon. 40h rear, and the front will depend on whether I want to use a shimano dynamo hub or a Maillard 700 front hub. I'm leaning toward a dynamo system for reliable bright lights, especially during winter.

I've finally managed to get the cable adjustment into spec, so now the Raleigh is running with all three gear options available. I took a 12 mile ride the other day along Ottawa's river paths to celebrate. Since my bike has the Cyclo 3-speed, it was fitted with a triple cog. The big'un is 21T, so that paired with the AG make the bike really enjoyable to ride on the flats or reasonable hills. I'm a little leery of going too hard on the pedals up hills, with the hub components nearing almost 70 years old. This morning I was heading into work on my Voyageur, and a guy passed me headed the other way riding a brand new Raleigh in the same colour as the one posted up thread. I also saw a Raleigh Laurentian parked downtown yesterday (Canadian only model - the hub said 1964).

Last edited by Ged117; 09-26-19 at 11:25 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-27-19, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
When I found the alloy four-speed, it hadn't occurred to me that finding a 40h rear wheel would be difficult.
It's making me rethink accumulating the AWs off the abandoned bikes around here. Unless it's a 36 maybe no point.
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Old 09-27-19, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Perhaps this one from '54 in the Canadian catalogue on Kurt's Headbadge site.

Just one down from the 531 models.
I think you've found it..
Down tube sticker

2030 tubing
Colour Royal Carmine Red
Thanks
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Old 09-27-19, 05:03 PM
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Speaking of 26" x 1-1/4" Endrick rims.....
The Canadian/British Mystery bike accepted an older pair of Kenda 27" x 1-3/8" (37-630) tires

As I've said before, I really like these club bikes.
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Old 09-27-19, 07:30 PM
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Hi folks,

I found a blue step through frame Sports locally. The hub is smooth on the top (no pattern on the shell like my spare '79 hub). I'm thinking of a reactivation and restore for my girlfriend since she wants an upright bike for comfy travel. The date on the hub is May 1972. It has the full chain ring, and silver painted front fork. Is there anything I should know about this year? I'd make a quick project of it this winter, rebuild the hub, service the bottom bracket, polish the chrome and paint. I'll post photos if / when I bring it back. It looks like this one, just with silver fork:

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Old 09-28-19, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
Hi folks,

I found a blue step through frame Sports locally. The hub is smooth on the top (no pattern on the shell like my spare '79 hub). I'm thinking of a reactivation and restore for my girlfriend since she wants an upright bike for comfy travel. The date on the hub is May 1972. It has the full chain ring, and silver painted front fork. Is there anything I should know about this year? I'd make a quick project of it this winter, rebuild the hub, service the bottom bracket, polish the chrome and paint. I'll post photos if / when I bring it back. It looks like this one, just with silver fork:

Sounds like it could be a quick turn around on this one.
Silver forks? Could have been replaced?
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Old 09-28-19, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Sounds like it could be a quick turn around on this one.
Silver forks? Could have been replaced?
The seller turned out to be a Raleigh collector. I'm curious to see what else he has. The fork is original. He started taking the paint off with a scotch brite pad with a two tone repaint in mind. I'm going to prep it and then paint it a nice soft white to match the rear fender end. He's had it about ten years and never got around to it. Maybe this one will get a B67 when finished.
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Old 09-28-19, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
The seller turned out to be a Raleigh collector. I'm curious to see what else he has. The fork is original. He started taking the paint off with a scotch brite pad with a two tone repaint in mind. I'm going to prep it and then paint it a nice soft white to match the rear fender end. He's had it about ten years and never got around to it. Maybe this one will get a B67 when finished.
I've seen a few bikes (I have a blue Superbe) that have a silver under coat.

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Old 09-29-19, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
I've seen a few bikes (I have a blue Superbe) that have a silver under coat.
That's the "candy" style paint that got popular in the 60s. They used a silver base paint then sprayed it over with a translucent color. I thought Superbes were always green.
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Old 09-29-19, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
That's the "candy" style paint that got popular in the 60s. They used a silver base paint then sprayed it over with a translucent color. I thought Superbes were always green.
That's right
Candy apple red on a hot rod!
Here's a red '61 Superbe

And here's my blue '61

I think the white accent on the front tube indicates a Canadian bike.
Made in England for the Canadian market.

RC serial #

Hard to see, but a Superbe decal on the downtube.
This bike arrived in a bit of a state having been over-painted blue,
I started to strip it but decided to leave "as is"..
Chrome fork tips as well
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Old 09-29-19, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Perhaps this one from '54 in the Canadian catalogue on Kurt's Headbadge site.

Just one down from the 531 models.
I should re position the levers and trigger to match this
illustration.
When I got the bike, the front caliper was missing.
The rear caliper was the older style that only accepts the specific Raleigh cable.
Two newer ('70's) calipers were purchased from George.
The front brake required a very specific bevelled bushing to fit onto the front of
the unique forks.
Luckily it was intact on the original back caliper.....

Last edited by gster; 09-29-19 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 09-29-19, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
That's right
Candy apple red on a hot rod!
Here's a red '61 Superbe

And here's my blue '61

I think the white accent on the front tube indicates a Canadian bike.
Made in England for the Canadian market.

RC serial #

Hard to see, but a Superbe decal on the downtube.
This bike arrived in a bit of a state having been over-painted blue,
I started to strip it but decided to leave "as is"..
Chrome fork tips as well
Candy paints, white darts and steering tubes, chrome fork tips...Darn. You Canadians got all the goodies. Here in the US, we had the choice of any color we wanted...as long as it was bronze green.
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Old 09-29-19, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BigChief
Candy paints, white darts and steering tubes, chrome fork tips...Darn. You Canadians got all the goodies. Here in the US, we had the choice of any color we wanted...as long as it was bronze green.
I still think green is the classic Superbe colour.
From the 1954 Canadian catalogue. Courtesy the headbadge

We also had a specific Canadian "Laurentian" model.



I suppose they thought we liked white because of all the snow....
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Old 09-29-19, 08:34 AM
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I had one of those!
Attached Images
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can1.png (418.8 KB, 286 views)

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Old 09-29-19, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
I still think green is the classic Superbe colour.
From the 1954 Canadian catalogue. Courtesy the headbadge

We also had a specific Canadian "Laurentian" model.


I suppose they thought we liked white because of all the snow....
Originally Posted by clubman
I had one of those!
That Laurentian is the exact same paint scheme as the bike I saw parked downtown here in Ottawa the other day. I snooped a bit to get a hub reading - 1964. It was clearly a well-loved daily driver, with panniers and basket, and worn looking panaracer col de la vie tires. The Rivendell Homer Hilsen parked nearby was also a big surprise. It was like a treat to see them hanging out with the moderns in the racks. It is really cool how often I see old three speeds around here - CCM, Raleigh, Eaton's Gliders, and I think a Philips once. They are usually weathered and casually maintained, but the hubs and wheels keep going.
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Old 09-29-19, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
That Laurentian is the exact same paint scheme as the bike I saw parked downtown here in Ottawa the other day. I snooped a bit to get a hub reading - 1964. It was clearly a well-loved daily driver, with panniers and basket, and worn looking panaracer col de la vie tires. The Rivendell Homer Hilsen parked nearby was also a big surprise. It was like a treat to see them hanging out with the moderns in the racks. It is really cool how often I see old three speeds around here - CCM, Raleigh, Eaton's Gliders, and I think a Philips once. They are usually weathered and casually maintained, but the hubs and wheels keep going.
Virtually bullet proof.
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Old 09-29-19, 12:13 PM
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1958 Blue Superbe
This one just popped up on Kijiji today
$200.00 asking

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