Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-11-20, 03:06 AM
  #22101  
Senior Member
 
gster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,572

Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed

Liked 445 Times in 288 Posts
Originally Posted by brianhamp
Is it on a bike? and if so which one? I noticed Raleigh has a sale brochure for 1962
It's on a Rudge for sale on Ebay.
gster is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 06:14 AM
  #22102  
Full Member
 
alexnagui's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Posts: 374
Liked 127 Times in 67 Posts
The BSA Star Rider I posted here last summer came with a '62 AW hub. Here is a picture of it.

alexnagui is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 08:31 AM
  #22103  
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 309

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)1973 Colnago Super, 4)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 5)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 6)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 7)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 8)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 9)1948 Humber Clubman. 10) 1949 Sunbeam WA3 Wayfarer

Liked 85 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by Salubrious
There is a tool that was built specifically to straighten bent steel crankarms. I have one that was made pre-war by Elgin. They are straightened fairly easily with that tool while on the bike.

For the cotter pin I would apply some Kroil (Penetrating-Lubricating Oils) to the pin and give it a day or so. Then I would try it again, only repositioning the press as best I could to apply the force so as to push the bend back in the other direction; IOW a little off to one side.
I don't remove the nut on the cotter pin until the pin is moving, just crack the nut to start with and rotate a small amount applying the press until the nut is down to the crank then repeat. Once the pin is completely loose remove the nut and press the cotter pin out. This way the pin is supported by the nut and does not bend. Has worked every time for me.
__________________
Cuius summa inventa

PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 08:35 AM
  #22104  
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 8,140
Liked 673 Times in 383 Posts
Originally Posted by gster
Here's an amazon review I wrote for some inner tubes I purchased...
https://www.amazon.ca/review/R3HZ9G8..._rv_eml_rv0_rv
Haha. I voted this helpful.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 10:19 AM
  #22105  
Senior Member
 
browngw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Port Dover Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,550

Bikes: 1965 Dilecta Le Blanc, 1956 Royal Nord, 1972 Raleigh Sports, 1972 CCM Turismo,1976 SuperCycle Excalibur, 2014 Salsa Vaya, 2017 Felt DD70, 2019 Giant Lafree and others

Liked 623 Times in 235 Posts
Brampton Cog Change

Since completing round one with refurbishing the circa 1956 Royal Nord President and riding it a little, I think it is time to rethink the gearing. For the ups and downs of our little town a lower ratio would be appreciated. With the original 700 x 38C alloy wheels the whole range is higher than I need for this type of bike. The beautiful original chain ring is 46 tooth and the cog is an 18 tooth. I have changed SA cogs many times in the past but they were all the type that slip on and have the spring wire retainer. This one is threaded on and did not respond to my attempts to remove it. Afraid of harming this very special old bike and not sur of what I was doing I left it be. The Brampton hubs were supposedly made under licence to Sturmey Archer but appear different. Anyone had any experience doing this? Were older SA hubs threaded?





Comparison with SA Trigger
__________________
We are what we reflect. We are the changes that we bring to this world. Ride often. -Geo.-
browngw is offline  
Likes For browngw:
Old 01-12-20, 10:20 AM
  #22106  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,345
Liked 7,172 Times in 2,732 Posts
I don't have any pics of an AMF Hercules that I fixed up for my brother, but I'm fairly sure the S-A AW hub was dated 62 13!
nlerner is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 12:59 PM
  #22107  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by browngw
Since completing round one with refurbishing the circa 1956 Royal Nord President and riding it a little, I think it is time to rethink the gearing. For the ups and downs of our little town a lower ratio would be appreciated. With the original 700 x 38C alloy wheels the whole range is higher than I need for this type of bike. The beautiful original chain ring is 46 tooth and the cog is an 18 tooth. I have changed SA cogs many times in the past but they were all the type that slip on and have the spring wire retainer. This one is threaded on and did not respond to my attempts to remove it. Afraid of harming this very special old bike and not sur of what I was doing I left it be. The Brampton hubs were supposedly made under licence to Sturmey Archer but appear different. Anyone had any experience doing this? Were older SA hubs threaded?





Comparison with SA Trigger
My 1951 Rudge had the threaded driver. I believe Sturmey archer started using the 3 splined driver in 52 or 53, but the Brampton version continued to use the threaded type. I swapped in a later 3 spline driver so I could adjust the overall gearing of my Rudge. I think...but don't know a SA splined driver might also work in the Brampton since it's a licensed copy. I, so far, haven't taken the cog off the old driver so the outer dust cover is still being held captive, but I had a spare to use. Here's pics of the original and my replacement.



BigChief is offline  
Likes For BigChief:
Old 01-12-20, 01:29 PM
  #22108  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 998
Liked 468 Times in 272 Posts
Originally Posted by nlerner
I don't have any pics of an AMF Hercules that I fixed up for my brother, but I'm fairly sure the S-A AW hub was dated 62 13!
13? Is that a typo or was it really stamped with 13 for the month?
jackbombay is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 02:54 PM
  #22109  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,345
Liked 7,172 Times in 2,732 Posts
Originally Posted by jackbombay
13? Is that a typo or was it really stamped with 13 for the month?
Not a typo on my part! Sturmey Archer, on the other hand, who knows?
nlerner is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 03:34 PM
  #22110  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 240

Bikes: 30's Speedwell Club Racer, 40's Speedwell 'Z' racer, 50's Unknown Aussie with nice lugs, 50's Speedwell Roadster, 50's Repco Roadster, '63 Raleigh DL-1, 70's Raleigh Sprite, Puch Promenade with Nexus 8

Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
My 1951 Rudge had the threaded driver. I believe Sturmey archer started using the 3 splined driver in 52 or 53, but the Brampton version continued to use the threaded type. I swapped in a later 3 spline driver so I could adjust the overall gearing of my Rudge. I think...but don't know a SA splined driver might also work in the Brampton since it's a licensed copy. I, so far, haven't taken the cog off the old driver so the outer dust cover is still being held captive, but I had a spare to use. Here's pics of the original and my replacement.


I did the same on an early 50's hub.
I'd been unable to remove the threaded cog while in place on the wheel, but it was easier to remove once it was out of the hub. I clamped a tool handle that fit into the slots of the driver into my vice, sat the driver on the tool handle, and then used a chain whip to remove the cog.

Last edited by arty dave; 01-12-20 at 03:39 PM.
arty dave is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 05:42 PM
  #22111  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by arty dave
I did the same on an early 50's hub.
I'd been unable to remove the threaded cog while in place on the wheel, but it was easier to remove once it was out of the hub. I clamped a tool handle that fit into the slots of the driver into my vice, sat the driver on the tool handle, and then used a chain whip to remove the cog.
All these years of being an IG hub guy has left me without a chain whip tool. I put the unit in my parts stash and if I ever really need the dust cover I suppose I could try driving the cog off with a punch. One thing's for sure. I won't ever be using an 18T cog on that bike. With the heavy pre-high tensile frame, Brooks saddle,tool bag, pump, steel rims, Dyno hub and all the original sheet metal , it's too heavy for 48x18 gearing. At least for me it is.
BigChief is offline  
Old 01-12-20, 06:01 PM
  #22112  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 998
Liked 468 Times in 272 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
All these years of being an IG hub guy has left me without a chain whip tool. I put the unit in my parts stash and if I ever really need the dust cover I suppose I could try driving the cog off with a punch. One thing's for sure. I won't ever be using an 18T cog on that bike. With the heavy pre-high tensile frame, Brooks saddle,tool bag, pump, steel rims, Dyno hub and all the original sheet metal , it's too heavy for 48x18 gearing. At least for me it is.
Clamp the gear in a bench vice then put a screwdriver through the slots in the driver and spin it off?
jackbombay is offline  
Old 01-13-20, 05:53 AM
  #22113  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by jackbombay
Clamp the gear in a bench vice then put a screwdriver through the slots in the driver and spin it off?
That should work. I suppose it would be good to get it apart without breaking anything. I always save parts, but who would ever want a threaded driver and 18T cog? You never know. I had that NOS straight leg driver and dust cover in my parts bin for years and ended up needing them. Never thought I would.
BigChief is offline  
Old 01-13-20, 06:24 AM
  #22114  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 228
Liked 107 Times in 56 Posts
I went to my shop and counted 8 bikes or wheels with threaded drivers. I know that free wheels come with English, French, or Italian threads. Are threaded cogs all interchangeable?
bluesteak is offline  
Old 01-13-20, 07:30 AM
  #22115  
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 309

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)1973 Colnago Super, 4)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 5)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 6)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 7)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 8)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 9)1948 Humber Clubman. 10) 1949 Sunbeam WA3 Wayfarer

Liked 85 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by bluesteak
I went to my shop and counted 8 bikes or wheels with threaded drivers. I know that free wheels come with English, French, or Italian threads. Are threaded cogs all interchangeable?
English & Italian Freewheels are interchangeable but French are not compatible with English or Italian.
__________________
Cuius summa inventa

PeterLYoung is offline  
Old 01-13-20, 09:05 AM
  #22116  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Morris Cty, NJ
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by brianhamp
I have a question for the Sturmey Archer people.... Did Sturmey Archer stop or slow down production in 1962 ? I have been looking for a AW hub (or any SA hub) dated 1962 but cannot seem to find any... Was it maybe an "Off Year" for them?
I believe that 1961 was the last year for the screw in left-hand ball cup on Sturmey hubs. Perhaps there was a decrease in production while the factory retooled.

-Carl
cszipper is offline  
Likes For cszipper:
Old 01-13-20, 09:08 PM
  #22117  
Phyllo-buster
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,870

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Liked 2,073 Times in 1,263 Posts
Originally Posted by cszipper
I believe that 1961 was the last year for the screw in left-hand ball cup on Sturmey hubs. Perhaps there was a decrease in production while the factory retooled.

-Carl
It was a turbulent time, the beginning of the Tube Investments takeovers triggered a lot of changes. Dunlop, Moulton, Sturmey, and European racing created a fast changing marketplace.
clubman is offline  
Likes For clubman:
Old 01-13-20, 11:16 PM
  #22118  
elcraft
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Greater Boston
Posts: 819
Liked 103 Times in 72 Posts
Threaded drivers on AW ( and it's clones) is right hand threaded, matching English Freewheel and Bottom Bracket threading.
elcraft is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 08:55 AM
  #22119  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,926

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Liked 3,541 Times in 2,003 Posts
Originally Posted by arty dave
I'd been unable to remove the threaded cog while in place on the wheel, but it was easier to remove once it was out of the hub.
AFAIK, that's the only way to remove the cog from the driver. Sturmey-Archer actually recommended replacing the threaded drivers with splined drivers once the splined driver became available.

I clamped a tool handle that fit into the slots of the driver into my vice, sat the driver on the tool handle, and then used a chain whip to remove the cog.
That's how I did it as well:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 01-14-20, 12:26 PM
  #22120  
Senior Member
 
Salubrious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,606

Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB

Liked 281 Times in 126 Posts
Originally Posted by PeterLYoung
I don't remove the nut on the cotter pin until the pin is moving, just crack the nut to start with and rotate a small amount applying the press until the nut is down to the crank then repeat. Once the pin is completely loose remove the nut and press the cotter pin out. This way the pin is supported by the nut and does not bend. Has worked every time for me.
And for me as well. I made that recommendation based on an already bent cotter pin.
Salubrious is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 06:21 AM
  #22121  
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,938

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Liked 2,452 Times in 1,559 Posts
Nice little bike. Between CL and antique shops a few like this have been available here lately.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...056302508.html

Womenís vintage 3 speed - $100 (Henrico)



bicycle frame material: steel
bicycle type: cruiser
frame size: Medium
wheel size: 26 in
Vintage all original but the tires are new
Cool vintage cruiser
3 speed everything works as It should
thumpism is offline  
Old 01-15-20, 10:24 AM
  #22122  
Senior Member
 
PeterLYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southport, North Carolina, USA & Pevensey, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 309

Bikes: 1)1992 Trek 970, 2)2010 Trek 6500, 3)1973 Colnago Super, 4)1955 Freddie Grubb Meteor. 5)1993 Airborne Ti-Hag Titanium. 6)1936 BSA 602DX Roadster. 7)1957 Philips P2 Sports. 8)1955 Dayton Roadmaster. 9)1948 Humber Clubman. 10) 1949 Sunbeam WA3 Wayfarer

Liked 85 Times in 34 Posts
Sunbeam W3 Wayfarer No S48571 1949/50

I have now rebuilt this Sunbeam Wayfarer about which I posted earlier, Rather than post whole write up here it can be seen at: Sunbeam W3 Wayfarer No S48571 1949/50 Part 2


Completed Bike


Cockpit view.
__________________
Cuius summa inventa

PeterLYoung is offline  
Likes For PeterLYoung:
Old 01-15-20, 03:35 PM
  #22123  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 240

Bikes: 30's Speedwell Club Racer, 40's Speedwell 'Z' racer, 50's Unknown Aussie with nice lugs, 50's Speedwell Roadster, 50's Repco Roadster, '63 Raleigh DL-1, 70's Raleigh Sprite, Puch Promenade with Nexus 8

Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
Very nice rebuild, looks like it will be a satisfying ride. Favourite parts for me are the awesome flat north road bars, those cool centre-pull brakes - levers are nice too, and the saddle - I have one that is very similar (with 2 springs and not Terry's, can't remember the brand) that is very comfortable. It just needs a spiffy bell to complete
arty dave is offline  
Likes For arty dave:
Old 01-16-20, 06:41 PM
  #22124  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 228
Liked 107 Times in 56 Posts
1957 Hopper

Originally Posted by PeterLYoung
Further to my earlier comments if it was 1957 date bike then it possibly could have been built for 27" (630) rims rather than the EA1 26" rims.
Probably be a good idea to check against another road bike frame bike frame to check fork lengths, checking my road bikes with 27" they measure 14.5" from hub centre to base of crown whereas my 26" bikes measure 14" so this may give you a clue to which wheel was originally fitted. Hope this helps
I have mostly given up on the ea1 rims. I scooped up a couple of 40 hole sun cr18 rims on eBay. Hopefully that was not a mistake. I picked up somewhere that 590ís are out of production.

I am unsure if the original bike had ea1 or ea3 wheels.
bluesteak is offline  
Old 01-17-20, 04:18 AM
  #22125  
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by bluesteak
I have mostly given up on the ea1 rims. I scooped up a couple of 40 hole sun cr18 rims on eBay. Hopefully that was not a mistake. I picked up somewhere that 590ís are out of production.

I am unsure if the original bike had ea1 or ea3 wheels.
I think 590 CR-18s are the best choice. The Sun Ringle website doesn't list 590s, so perhaps they are out of production. Harris Cyclery still has them for sale on their site, but it might be a good idea to pick up a couple 32H front rims while you can.
BigChief is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.