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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 08-25-20, 04:29 PM
  #23101  
carfreefamily
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1952 AG Hub has developed "clonk" noise

This noise is driving me crazy. It's on my 1952 Raleigh Superbe Sports Tourist. When I'm pedaling with steady pressure, no noise. If I suddenly accelerate, there is a loudish "clonk" sound. Sometimes it's a single clonk, sometimes there is a quieter "thuk, thuk, thuk" as I pedal.

I associate the noise on another bike with a loose saddle clamp - for a long time I thought it was a bottom bracket noise, but it was the saddle. That's not it.

I tightened my cotter pins and checked for play in the bottom bracket - not it.
The crank is not hitting the kickstand.
I retightened everything on the chaincase.
I adjusted the chain to make sure it wasn't too tight or too loose.
I tightened the rear axle nuts - slightly - I recently overtightened and stripped a nut on another bike.

I can't think of what else to try. When the bike is parked, if I press down on the pedal, it makes a quieter clonk. In order to get it to make the noise again, I have to spin the pedal around and press on the non-chainring side and then the chainring side to get it to make the sound again. Mostly, it's pressing on the chainring side that generates the noise. It certainly sounds like it's coming from the area of the rear hub.

Any ideas? I'm holding off on my longer rides until I solve it.
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Old 08-25-20, 07:57 PM
  #23102  
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Originally Posted by carfreefamily View Post
This noise is driving me crazy. It's on my 1952 Raleigh Superbe Sports Tourist. When I'm pedaling with steady pressure, no noise. If I suddenly accelerate, there is a loudish "clonk" sound. Sometimes it's a single clonk, sometimes there is a quieter "thuk, thuk, thuk" as I pedal.

I associate the noise on another bike with a loose saddle clamp - for a long time I thought it was a bottom bracket noise, but it was the saddle. That's not it.

I tightened my cotter pins and checked for play in the bottom bracket - not it.
The crank is not hitting the kickstand.
I retightened everything on the chaincase.
I adjusted the chain to make sure it wasn't too tight or too loose.
I tightened the rear axle nuts - slightly - I recently overtightened and stripped a nut on another bike.

I can't think of what else to try. When the bike is parked, if I press down on the pedal, it makes a quieter clonk. In order to get it to make the noise again, I have to spin the pedal around and press on the non-chainring side and then the chainring side to get it to make the sound again. Mostly, it's pressing on the chainring side that generates the noise. It certainly sounds like it's coming from the area of the rear hub.

Any ideas? I'm holding off on my longer rides until I solve it.
You could rename the bike "Ol' Clonky".........
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Old 08-26-20, 04:56 PM
  #23103  
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Did Raleigh build a Sprite 27 with an AW hub and Sports type chainguard?
I came across one last fall in a cleanout with 27" wheels, brown in color, with the 69-70 style decals, but with a 69 dated AW hub, full length chainguard, Endrick rims spoked 36/36, Sir Raleigh front hub with oil port clip, blackwall Raleigh record tires, Sports type bars, peaked fenders, common trigger shifter, tubular crown fork, and thick saddle like the one pictured above.
The bike was a bit rough with dents in the down tube from the front caliper coming around and hitting the tube at the point where it meets the lug.
I had written it off as something someone put together, till I found a near identical one in a cleanout 500 miles away last month.
Then right after that I found a ladies model, this one newer, with self adjusting brake levers and flat top fenders but again, with an AW hub and 27" wheels. This one had Raleigh Scripted Endrick rims that look to be Asian made, maybe late 70's Araya, the hub was dated 1978, it had blackwall Raleigh scripted Cheng Shin tires and a "Made in Malaysia" decal on the lower part of the seat tube. The bottom bracket shell on that bike was cracked to it got parted out to save some space. I saved all but the frame in hopes of finding a suitable men's frame for the parts.
I've not ran into a "Sprite 27" yet with a 5 speed, all have been AW three speeds or 10 speeds with derailleurs. The odd thing is that the first one I found didn't say "Sprite 27", just 'Sprite' on the decal but on a 27" frame. I also noticed that the bikes with the 27" frame use the same Prestube rear rack as on a 26" bike, the dropouts are made to accommodate the shorter legs of that rack. (The later ladies model had a Pletscher style alloy rear rack).

They all could very well be bikes that were put together by their owners but I found it odd that three turned up all equipped the same.
Both men's frames were brown, the ladies frame was bright red metallic.

I did find a small men's (19.5"), Raleigh frame in one lot that had no model designation on the frame, just the Made in England decal up top and a winged decal on the DT that said " =5 Speed= " and a full length chainguard similar in shape up front to the one pictured above on the green Sprite, with only a "Roadster" decal on it. dimension wise it fitted up to the same mounts as a standard Raleigh hockey stick guard. The headbadge was the standard Raleigh Heron. That bike had 26" Endrick rims, an S5 hub, chrome Raleigh pattern fenders, and a common heron crank. It also had its serial number up top on the seat post lug.
I've since run across a few Robin Hood models with AW hubs that were similarly equipped otherwise in the smallest models as well.
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Old 08-31-20, 03:03 PM
  #23104  
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This needs to back on page #1 .
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Old 09-06-20, 09:58 AM
  #23105  
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Hang on to your nuts!!!

At least the shipping is free...
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Old 09-06-20, 07:31 PM
  #23106  
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I got 2 3 speed bikes at a yard sale today. The Ladies was made by Apollo Cycle Co. Birmingham England. The date on the SA hub is 10/63 . I can not find much info on the web for this company, did they make their own frames? The mens is badged as a Huffy made in England. I don't know who made the rear hub , is has a US patent number on it and what what looks like the numbers 333 and says 3 speed hub. Near the oil hole it has H36. Anyone know about when the Huffy was made and by who? Both bikes look like they came from the same factory and about the same time. The frames are identical other than being mens and ladies , forks, crank , sprocket and stem are the same. The fenders and chain guards look like Raleigh.






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Old 09-06-20, 08:17 PM
  #23107  
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My daughter has asked specifically if I’ll leave her my 79 Tourist in my will.

Originally Posted by gster View Post
Good to see some younger riders who appreciate a well made bike.
The sad truth is, if taken care of, they'll outlast all of us......
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Old 09-07-20, 06:41 AM
  #23108  
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Originally Posted by Oldsledz View Post
I got 2 3 speed bikes at a yard sale today. The Ladies was made by Apollo Cycle Co. Birmingham England. The date on the SA hub is 10/63 . I can not find much info on the web for this company, did they make their own frames? The mens is badged as a Huffy made in England. I don't know who made the rear hub , is has a US patent number on it and what what looks like the numbers 333 and says 3 speed hub. Near the oil hole it has H36. Anyone know about when the Huffy was made and by who? Both bikes look like they came from the same factory and about the same time. The frames are identical other than being mens and ladies , forks, crank , sprocket and stem are the same. The fenders and chain guards look like Raleigh.
Your 3.3.3 hub is a Shimano, ready identifiable by the bellcrank arrangement instead of the Sturmey's indicator chain. I've never seen a Shimano with the bellcrank on the right side so it's possible that the rear wheel is installed incorrectly and might "coast" when you try to pedal forwards on it because it thinks you're actually backpedaling. It also means you might have three reverse speeds. Others will surely comment on this.
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Old 09-07-20, 06:50 AM
  #23109  
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The 333 hub is a Shimano. Roger
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Old 09-07-20, 07:26 AM
  #23110  
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Your 3.3.3 hub is a Shimano, ready identifiable by the bellcrank arrangement instead of the Sturmey's indicator chain. I've never seen a Shimano with the bellcrank on the right side so it's possible that the rear wheel is installed incorrectly and might "coast" when you try to pedal forwards on it because it thinks you're actually backpedaling.
I've seen the 3.3.3 hubs with bell cranks on either side.

N.B. you can't really install the wheel backwards and ride the bike, as the sprocket only attaches to one side of the hub.
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Old 09-07-20, 07:29 AM
  #23111  
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Originally Posted by Oldsledz View Post
I got 2 3 speed bikes at a yard sale today. The Ladies was made by Apollo Cycle Co. Birmingham England. The date on the SA hub is 10/63 . I can not find much info on the web for this company, did they make their own frames? The mens is badged as a Huffy made in England. I don't know who made the rear hub , is has a US patent number on it and what what looks like the numbers 333 and says 3 speed hub. Near the oil hole it has H36. Anyone know about when the Huffy was made and by who? Both bikes look like they came from the same factory and about the same time. The frames are identical other than being mens and ladies , forks, crank , sprocket and stem are the same. The fenders and chain guards look like Raleigh.
You're correct. They're both Raleigh made rebrands. Apollo may have been an older manufacturer in Birmingham before the big 1960 takeover but I've never seen one before. The twist grip is an early one, they're usually 64 or 65.
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Old 09-07-20, 02:39 PM
  #23112  
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@Oldsledz, I agree with clubman. Also, it would seem that perhaps the Shimano hub is a replacement? My wife has a Huffy Sportsman ladies model (Sportswoman?) that is close to the same color as that Apollo. The hub is dated 1964. We call it the Huffington. Sounds more stately.
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Old 09-07-20, 07:10 PM
  #23113  
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Thanks for the replies , I hadn't thought about it before but the hub has been replaced, the bike still has the SA shifter.
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Old 09-08-20, 05:50 AM
  #23114  
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I'n working on a Huffy Sportsman that is in really bad shape but salvageable. Doing a complete rebuild with parts from my donor bikes. These aren't really collectible, more an oddity, so no harm, no foul. I'll repaint and rebuild as a Raleigh since I have several Raleigh Heron chainrings. My original bike came with nice condition chrome fenders, so that will set it off nicely! It came with a Sturmey Archer TCW hub (the much maligned and for good reason-brakes wouldn't work when needed and gears would jamb when shifting. Think SA tried to stuff too much stuff inside that little hub shell. The H36 means 36 hole hub) 3 speed with internal coaster brake. Mine came with only a front caliper brake. The hub was dated 1963 and from what I researched that was about when Huffy contracted with Raleigh to make these. I don't think the arrangement lasted for more than a few years. Someone might have switched out the TCW hub for the Shimano (a much better hub-I have one on a Birmingham built 53 Gazelle and its a great shifting hub) and added a real caliper brake. Your frame, paint and decals are in great shape, so a worthy candidate, but keep any cash outlay low unless you intend to keep and ride for a long time. Correct saddle, a Brooks will set you back but handlebars are pretty common as are fenders. Keep an eye out for a beat up Raleigh donor bike and you might get lucky!


Originally Posted by Oldsledz View Post
I got 2 3 speed bikes at a yard sale today. The Ladies was made by Apollo Cycle Co. Birmingham England. The date on the SA hub is 10/63 . I can not find much info on the web for this company, did they make their own frames? The mens is badged as a Huffy made in England. I don't know who made the rear hub , is has a US patent number on it and what what looks like the numbers 333 and says 3 speed hub. Near the oil hole it has H36. Anyone know about when the Huffy was made and by who? Both bikes look like they came from the same factory and about the same time. The frames are identical other than being mens and ladies , forks, crank , sprocket and stem are the same. The fenders and chain guards look like Raleigh.







Last edited by JIMBO53; 09-08-20 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 09-12-20, 08:50 AM
  #23115  
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I recently did some work on a neighbour's damaged Canadian built CCM.
I've been told the cranks and chainring were most likely supplied by Raleigh.
His spindle and chainring were badly damaged/warped.
I found this replacement but the crank is a little "loose" in the ring.
i.e. it moves about 1/8" inch back and forth
Q- anyone have a solution?
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Old 09-12-20, 11:50 AM
  #23116  
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Try staking it, which is cheap and easy. Get a cold chisel and on the backside of the arm go around the swaged part and make nice little radial grooves by whacking the chisel with a BFH. It'll probably hold. I've done it.

Not exactly the right pic but you get the idea; you want to deform the metal to pinch the other piece in order to immobilize it.

Last edited by thumpism; 09-12-20 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 09-12-20, 01:33 PM
  #23117  
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Thanks
for that.
Greg
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Old 09-12-20, 02:53 PM
  #23118  
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Rare Raleigh Accessories
My 1977 Raleigh Superbe came equipped with the extremely rare "Bike Phone Accessory".

Not quite wireless back then. It did require an extremely long cord which limits how far you could travel.
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Old 09-12-20, 02:59 PM
  #23119  
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My Two Friends

Raleigh Superbe, good all round work /errand bike
Raleigh built Glider, good get around town bike.
These two are my go to bikes and get the most use.
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Old 09-13-20, 10:29 AM
  #23120  
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Rare Raleigh Accessories
My 1977 Raleigh Superbe came equipped with the extremely rare "Bike Phone Accessory".

Not quite wireless back then. It did require an extremely long cord which limits how far you could travel.
How much phone wire do the bags hold?
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Old 09-13-20, 10:33 AM
  #23121  
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that's where I keep the batteries.
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Old 09-13-20, 05:24 PM
  #23122  
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Craigslist find

Found this on Craigslist Friday. Bought it on Saturday. He was irritated because the fellow who had replied before me was a no call, no show, so he offered it to me for $100. He was asking $150. He said he didn't think the handlebars were original, and he had a ridable replica seat on it when I got it. I replaced the seat with a cheapie I had in the basement, and tightened a few loose bolts. I've taken it for a few short rides. Bearings feel a bit on the dry side, so an overhaul is in the works. The handlebars say Hercules and are extremely narrow. Also the pitch is low and my knees hit the handlebars in a mild turn, but there appears to be no way to adjust them, so my knees are everywhere riding around town. Tires are 28 x 1 1/2 by Kenda. I plan on replacing them soon. The rear brakes seem wrong for this bike, but I can find no fittings anywhere that would indicate this bike ever had rod brakes for the rear. Anybody have any ideas on this bikes id and or a history?








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Old 09-14-20, 03:05 AM
  #23123  
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Humber Beeston Clubman 1948 Restoration

Originally Posted by PeterLYoung View Post
I was given this bike by a gentleman in his eighties who told me he bought it new in 1948. He no longer can ride it and as I restored bikes he offered it to me for free. After taking a look at it I made him take a payment for it, a token payment really but fair as it was going to cost a lot to restore.

The Humber Beeston Clubman is the rarest of the trio of Clubman bikes made by Raleigh, the other two are the Lenton Clubman and the Rudge Aero Clubman.
It had a Sturmey Archer AM Medium Ratio 3 Speed but he said it had failed at some point and the bike shop swopped the innards for an AW Wide Ratio unit.
The bike had been adapted as he got older and the dropped bars changed for Straight Bars and the brakes changed for later Raleigh design as the originals had the fixed length with nipples both ends and the cables were obsolete. Also the rat-trap pedals were replaced with rubber tread ones. The 26” x 1-1/4”. Dunlop Special Lightweight rims were shot having been dented and rusted.

So really I only had a frame, crank set and hubs (SA Casing for rear). From which to restore his bike to original condition.

The frame had been over-sprayed, covering the transfers in a thin film of blue paint. Fortunately there was enough present to photograph and dimension all the transfers to get new ones made. Lloyds made me a new set so I can get the frame refinished and transfers replaced.
The original bars and stem had been long discarded and the stem being the clamp type I had little hope of finding one, luckily and guy in Canada had a correct bars and stem and was happy to sell and ship to UK, fortunately they are in nice condition
The brakes were also tricky as for the Humber Fork Crown they have a special ferrule to fit between the crown plates, I bought several old sets from e-bay and between them I managed to make up a decent correct set. I have also managed to obtain some correct NOS cables.
The 3 Speed trigger on the bike was a mid-fifties type, not correct for 1948 . After much searching I obtained a NOS Model GC2 Trigger which was only made between 1948 & 1949, very rare as NOS.
I found a Sturmey Archer AM 3 Speed hub on e-bay but when I stripped it one of the planet gears and the axle sun gear were stripped, Colwood Wheelworks who happen to be close by supplied the damaged parts so I could rebuild it. In this 3 Speed the planet wheels have to be set using timing marks when re-assembling and this probably was the cause of the damage. I now also have a spare AM 3 Speed hub for spares if needed.
The wheels were 26” x 1-1/4” 40 spoke rear and 32 front. I really wanted to fit the correct Dunlop Special Lightweight rims but these are rare as hens teeth. I attended Bike Jumbles and everyone I spoke to was also wanting them and having no luck. After about a year of looking a front 32 hole stainless one turned up on e-bay and I paid a large sum to get it, it arrived with its original factory wrapping paper still on it.
A few weeks later a rear chrome 40 hole one also NOS showed up and I grabbed that too and that was also still in its original wrapping. At a glance they look identical though stainless has a slightly different colour to the expert eye. The wheels are away being built and I am so pleased to have the correct rims. The chrome parts on the bike do have some corrosion on the visible surfaces but it is not too bad and white vinegar is eliminating the rust, with an oil coating they will be acceptable for re use. All the bearing surfaces are good and will be fine with new balls.
The Bottom Bracket is fine and I also have a NOS replacement set of Cups and Axle if needed.
I found a correct set of rat trap pedals also on e-bay.
Current state of play is the frame has to go to the re-finisher but with the Covid-19 situation I am not able to take it to them. This may change after July 4th when new rules come into play.


Humber Beeston Clubman as obtained.

Pinch bolt type Headset.

Original SA Wheel Wingnuts are all present as also all the mudguard (fender) quick release wing nuts/bolts.


Bike with correct Bars, Stem, Brake Levers & Trigger Shifter fitted.
: UPDATE, I have sent the frame to Bob Jackson for re enamelling with a set of transfers to be fixed and clear coated, awaiting its return.
At the same time I managed to acquire a pair of Dunlop Lightweight 26" X 1 1/4" Rims NOS and still in factory wrapping, the front rim is the stainless version and the rear is chromed version, would have been nice to find both in either chrome or stainless but these rims are as rare as hens teeth in this condition and unfortunately the originals had too much wear and damage to be re used. The wheels have been rebuilt with Stainless double butted spokes and the 3 Speed rebuilt back to an AM (it had an AW fitted into the original shell due to a failure many years back). I also was informed by my local bike shop that Schwalbe have now ceased manufacturing 26' x 1 1/4" tyres and I do not know of anyone else making them, looking online there seem to be very few to be had so getting replacement tyres in the future for these wheels is likely to be difficult.

I will update when the frame arrives back from Bob Jackson, apparently they are so busy they are refusing new orders for frame refurbishments at present. I guess during UK lockdown everyone has been digging out their frames for refinishing!!!

Today Bob Jackson contacted me to say Frame is ready, I should receive it Thursday 17th Sep.

Here are Restored Wheels photos:-



Rear Wheel with Chromed Dunlop Lightweight rim + rebuilt AM 3 Speed hub with all new bearings. Fitted new Schwalbe 26" X 1 1/4" tyre.

Front Wheel with Stainless Dunlop Lightweight rim, hub overhauled with new bearings. Fitted new Schwalbe 26" X 1 1/4" tyre.
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Last edited by PeterLYoung; 09-14-20 at 01:52 PM. Reason: add information.
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Old 09-14-20, 03:32 AM
  #23124  
Johno59
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775

Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes

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Pawl spring sticking

Originally Posted by carfreefamily View Post
This noise is driving me crazy. It's on my 1952 Raleigh Superbe Sports Tourist. When I'm pedaling with steady pressure, no noise. If I suddenly accelerate, there is a loudish "clonk" sound. Sometimes it's a single clonk, sometimes there is a quieter "thuk, thuk, thuk" as I pedal.

I associate the noise on another bike with a loose saddle clamp - for a long time I thought it was a bottom bracket noise, but it was the saddle. That's not it.

I tightened my cotter pins and checked for play in the bottom bracket - not it.
The crank is not hitting the kickstand.
I retightened everything on the chaincase.
I adjusted the chain to make sure it wasn't too tight or too loose.
I tightened the rear axle nuts - slightly - I recently overtightened and stripped a nut on another bike.

I can't think of what else to try. When the bike is parked, if I press down on the pedal, it makes a quieter clonk. In order to get it to make the noise again, I have to spin the pedal around and press on the non-chainring side and then the chainring side to get it to make the sound again. Mostly, it's pressing on the chainring side that generates the noise. It certainly sounds like it's coming from the area of the rear hub.

Any ideas? I'm holding off on my longer rides until I solve it.
Grease may have got to the pawl springs and they are not engaging the planet ring gear consistently. Squirt some WD 40 down the filler hole and see if the noise lessens. If there is an improvement, put a tablespoon of correct oil back in and plan to disassemble the hub(this can be down with the hub still in the wheel) and give everything a thorough clean and/or change the pawl springs.
The Internet has heaps of good videos demonstrating how do do this easily and correctly.
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Old 09-14-20, 03:33 AM
  #23125  
Johno59
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775

Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes

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Pawl spring sticking

Originally Posted by carfreefamily View Post
This noise is driving me crazy. It's on my 1952 Raleigh Superbe Sports Tourist. When I'm pedaling with steady pressure, no noise. If I suddenly accelerate, there is a loudish "clonk" sound. Sometimes it's a single clonk, sometimes there is a quieter "thuk, thuk, thuk" as I pedal.

I associate the noise on another bike with a loose saddle clamp - for a long time I thought it was a bottom bracket noise, but it was the saddle. That's not it.

I tightened my cotter pins and checked for play in the bottom bracket - not it.
The crank is not hitting the kickstand.
I retightened everything on the chaincase.
I adjusted the chain to make sure it wasn't too tight or too loose.
I tightened the rear axle nuts - slightly - I recently overtightened and stripped a nut on another bike.

I can't think of what else to try. When the bike is parked, if I press down on the pedal, it makes a quieter clonk. In order to get it to make the noise again, I have to spin the pedal around and press on the non-chainring side and then the chainring side to get it to make the sound again. Mostly, it's pressing on the chainring side that generates the noise. It certainly sounds like it's coming from the area of the rear hub.

Any ideas? I'm holding off on my longer rides until I solve it.
Grease may have got to the pawl springs and they are not engaging the planet ring gear consistently. Squirt some WD 40 down the filler hole and see if the noise lessens. If there is an improvement, put a tablespoon of correct oil back in and plan to disassemble the hub(this can be down with the hub still in the wheel) and give everything a thorough clean and/or change the pawl springs.
The Internet has heaps of good videos demonstrating how do do this easily and correctly.
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