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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 11-24-20, 06:30 AM
  #23401  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I think it's a late 40's bike. I've got a 52 and had a 55 and they both had brass head badges, something that was in short supply post war. The bakelite dynohub also stopped around '51. It could have a date on it.
edit
Thank you.
Btw-I see you are from NS. Every time I see Nova Scotia it reminds me of my youth. I had an Uncle who lived in Musquodoboit Harbour and spent a few Summers there. Fond memories.
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Old 11-24-20, 07:24 AM
  #23402  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I think it's a late 40's bike. I've got a 52 and had a 55 and they both had brass head badges, something that was in short supply post war. The bakelite dynohub also stopped around '51. It could have a date on it.
edit
Given Raleigh owned Humber by this time period you might (emphasis might) get some dating info from the serial number and Kurts Raleigh site. When I put my Humber serial through that it came out roughly in the right era based on hub date and catalog specs.

also, there are a good number of late 40s and early 50s Humber catalogs available online that may also be of use. Especially the VCC in the UK.

[edit] My late 49/early 50 Humber also had a brass head badge but it was based on a sports model with caliper brakes; perhaps the Cob style bikes got a decal?
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Old 11-24-20, 08:02 AM
  #23403  
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Yes I didn't mention mine were both Sports models, although I've seen decals on these as well.
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Old 11-24-20, 03:48 PM
  #23404  
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Originally Posted by knittykitty View Post
Finally dragged the Raleigh Twenty back out of the garage during a dry spell to take some photos. The work van does not make the most charming backdrop, but it was about as much effort as I was willing to put into photographing this. I posted about picking this up a few weeks ago, and haven't really touched it since, aside from pulling more pine needles out of various crevices. It certainly isn't in good shape, and I think free was about the right price for it. If I end up liking it, I'd consider re-painting. There's patina, and then there's just sad.

It's got some white splotches here and there that I think might be house paint, and rust galore. Rims are surprisingly not very rusty, which is nice, though the nipples did not fare as well. Hopefully they're not seized.

I did get the pair of tires I ordered for it in the mail, nothing fancy, just some cheap CST Decades to try the whole thing out. Whenever I get around to finding tubes and getting the hub moving that is. I was also gifted a white saddle that I think might look rather nice on this, if it doesn't end up being unbearable to sit on.


I'll post progress pics whenever I actually make some progress on it.
That can most certainly be brought back to rideable condition! You actually have the pump with it. It will require a total tear down and rebuild but, its worth it! What year is the hub date?

wonderful winter project.
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Old 11-24-20, 05:53 PM
  #23405  
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Mr. Michael Recycles Bicycles ? "The Ultimate Bike junkyard" has the S5 parts at MUCH lower prices than Rat City cycles out of Seattle, $1 for the HSA141 sun gear and $6 for the HSA134 planet gears where Rat City wanted $10 for the sun and $20 for the planet gears. MMRB took several days to respond to email, but their prices are absurdly low. Rat City did only have 2 of the planet gears in stock and he said he wasn't going to order more till the spring, so somebody is still making these parts, I imagine I'm getting parts from MMRB that were also not manufactured by Sturmey Archer.

I'll certainly post when I receive the parts with my impression of their quality.
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Old 11-24-20, 07:39 PM
  #23406  
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
That can most certainly be brought back to rideable condition! You actually have the pump with it. It will require a total tear down and rebuild but, its worth it! What year is the hub date?

wonderful winter project.
Hub is marked "69", so 1969 I guess. I haven't looked anywhere else for date codes or serial numbers yet.

I am "pumped" that it has the pump! My mother's old Robin Hood Sports no longer has the pump, and at some point I'd like to find one for it. Haven't checked to see what kind of shape this one is in yet, probably filled with dead spiders or something. I did tear the Robin Hood down around 6 years ago, it was the project that got me into bikes, but it wasn't quite as sorry looking as this one, and I got to do all that work in the local community shop with a bunch of help. Not sure where I'm going to work on this, hopefully not the garage. It's cold in there. And I don't have helpful things like a cotter press. I also didn't have to open up the 3 speed hub on that one, but I hear it's not too bad. Fortunately I do like sitting around cleaning crevices and polishing stuff, so that should keep me occupied for many hours.

I really need to finish fixing my friend's mountain bike, and my mountain bike before getting into this. And I guess I was supposed to install metal fenders on my mixte so I could pretend I was going to ride it anywhere during the winter. Excuses, excuses.
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Old 11-24-20, 07:59 PM
  #23407  
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Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
Trying to get more info on this HUMBER. It was suggested I ask here. More pictures at the link. Thanks!
What is this?
I would say the undated hub places the bike in the late 30s. SA stopped producing the K series hubs I think in 37. The first few years of A series production were undated. I have a 39? Elswick with an undated AB hub.
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Old 11-25-20, 12:29 AM
  #23408  
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Originally Posted by knittykitty View Post
If I end up liking it, I'd consider re-painting. There's patina, and then there's just sad.
Meguiars #7 on a foam pad at the end of a drill. Dump the fenders in oxalic acid to get the surface rust off, then do the same on those. You won't need a repaint after that.

That looks to be a '68 Twenty too - first year. Not terribly unusual, but just a bit different from the others.

-Kurt
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Old 11-25-20, 06:27 AM
  #23409  
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Originally Posted by bluesteak View Post
I would say the undated hub places the bike in the late 30’s. SA stopped producing the K series hubs I think in 37. The first few years of A series production were undated. I have a 39? Elswick with an undated AB hub.
Wouldn't a frame that early have a braze on for the shifter cable pulley? Unless this was originally a single speed and the geared hub added shortly after (when the undated hub might still have been common)?

Edit: I take it back - looking at the 1940 catalog it appears the subject bike is a model 91 Sports Roadster (not a Sports Light Roadster which had caliper brakes); though hard to discern it appears to have the pulley strap mounted and the nub on the top tube in the photo may correspond to where the "stick shifter" might have mounted. All of the other models with rod brakes have detachable seat stays. BTW, according to the catalog no chain guard was fitted (I guess that's how it got to be light).

Last edited by markk900; 11-25-20 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 11-25-20, 06:36 AM
  #23410  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
Wouldn't a frame that early have a braze on for the shifter cable pulley? Unless this was originally a single speed and the geared hub added shortly after (when the undated hub might still have been common)?
My prewar roadsters have clamps for the cable pulleys, but it seems like it should have a frame mounted shifter. I am not sure when they started with the handle bar trigger.
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Old 11-25-20, 06:55 AM
  #23411  
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Originally Posted by bluesteak View Post
My prewar roadsters have clamps for the cable pulleys, but it seems like it should have a frame mounted shifter. I am not sure when they started with the handle bar trigger.
bluesteak : I edited my comment - apparently handlebar shifters were available at least for 4-speed even in 1940. Agree it could have started with a frame mounted shifter and there appears to be a braze on for it on the top tube.

Last edited by markk900; 11-25-20 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 11-25-20, 07:57 AM
  #23412  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
FYI, @Monzeglio, that particular Superbe may differ in some specifications from the typical Raleigh Sports or Superbe as is often mentioned here on the forum.

I don't know much about these - other than they're UK-market only - but they have a different (and slightly nicer) frame than the typical Sports, if a bit lacking in the traditional details one expects. The dropouts are different (I've never seen one close enough to figure out if they're the same stamped steel dropout in the fashion of the older Super Course), the lugs are generic cast (?) pieces, and the stays have spoon caps. The fenders are different than the norm as well, and the crankarms also appear different.

I've always assumed these came from Japan, but that's obviously a classic Nottingham headset. Would love to see more closeups of the details.

-Kurt
Here are some details of the frame, Kurt. It seems to be a bit of a crossover model with cottered cranks but top tube pump lugs.


82 Superbe is my town runabout of choice at the moment. Braking in the wet takes some anticipation, though.







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Old 11-25-20, 03:02 PM
  #23413  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Meguiars #7 on a foam pad at the end of a drill. Dump the fenders in oxalic acid to get the surface rust off, then do the same on those. You won't need a repaint after that.

That looks to be a '68 Twenty too - first year. Not terribly unusual, but just a bit different from the others.

-Kurt
Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely try that first. When I actually get around to working on it.

I hadn't considered it could be older than 1969, since that's the date on the hub, but I guess the wheel could have been replaced at some point.
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Old 11-26-20, 10:36 AM
  #23414  
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It's only partially English (the rear wheel), and it's only recently a 3-speed (ditto), but I've finally got that Flying Pigeon I picked up at Westminster in February on the road. Well, up and down my street just to make sure everything's functioning right now. Will take it out in a little bit once the turkey is in the oven.




Had to discard the rear rack and stand to make sure I'd be able to bolt the rear axle down. And barely made it. By the way, if you've never ridden one of these, any comparison between these and a Raligh Tourist/other English roadster is entirely coincidental. I've never figured out how a bike can be so heavy, and still be so rattly.

Edit, two days later: Put eight miles on the bike between Thursday and Saturday, and it's now back in the shop - with a flat FRONT tire. Hopefully, when I get back to it on Monday, I'll pull the wheel and find a regular old garden variety puncture. If it's another instance of a rubbing puncture on the rim side of the tube, I still have the front Raleigh Tourist wheel. It's just that the chrome isn't as good as my other wheels.

Second edit, the following day: Yep, the puncture is on the inside against the rim. Cleaning up the Tourist front wheel. Have it back on the road by Tuesday, once the rain quits.
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Last edited by sykerocker; 11-30-20 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Addendum, two days later
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Old 11-26-20, 09:42 PM
  #23415  
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Originally Posted by Monzeglio View Post
Here are some details of the frame, Kurt. It seems to be a bit of a crossover model with cottered cranks but top tube pump lugs.
These are fantastic, thank you. Never realized that these were Nottingham, or that they basically re-engineered the Sports/Superbe for 1982.

Originally Posted by knittykitty View Post
Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely try that first. When I actually get around to working on it.

I hadn't considered it could be older than 1969, since that's the date on the hub, but I guess the wheel could have been replaced at some point.
Might be a '69 with a left-over '68 chainguard or '68 decal stuck on the chainguard. It's Raleigh. Anything is possible.

-Kurt
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Old 11-28-20, 02:32 PM
  #23416  
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Lovely Bike!

Ron Carnegie
'53 Rudge-Whitworth
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Old 11-28-20, 03:37 PM
  #23417  
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A couple of sad-looking 23" Sports w/ full chaincases appeared on Boston's CL today:

https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/bi...238377946.html
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Old 11-28-20, 06:43 PM
  #23418  
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Looks like a big arse Lucas Challis bell. I got a C-note for a NIB example.
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Old 11-28-20, 08:20 PM
  #23419  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
A couple of sad-looking 23" Sports w/ full chaincases appeared on Boston's CL today:

https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/bi...238377946.html
Sad looking? You're being kind. I'd probably look at them (if they were nearby) for the hubs and chain cases.
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Old 11-29-20, 12:10 AM
  #23420  
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On CL in NJ.
I bought a 23" frame Robin Hood off the same seller this morning.
The Hercules is as clean as any I've ever seen in recent years.
He said it came from the estate of a guy who kept it in a spare bedroom in the house and it shows.
Its a lot cleaner than it looks in the pics. If it were my size it would be in my garage.
Its about 40 minutes south of Philadelphia.

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/vineland-vintage-hercules-bicycle-made/7238068140.htm

l

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Old 11-29-20, 02:36 PM
  #23421  
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Well, those basket case Raleigh Sports are now in my basement. These are about as far gone as any bikes I've ever dealt with. My goal is to salvage enough for one complete bike though it might mean building new wheels as the spokes are really rusted on both. Seller was cleaning out his elderly parents' house and said they purchased these new back in the day and left them sitting out in the yard for the last 50 years.





Rear hub on the men's frame: an alloy AW dated 1954:


And a quadrant shifter:


I'm going to need lots and lots of Evaporust!
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Old 11-29-20, 06:21 PM
  #23422  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Well, those basket case Raleigh Sports are now in my basement. These are about as far gone as any bikes I've ever dealt with....

I'm going to need lots and lots of Evaporust!
Looks like what any 1970's Raleigh left outside tends to look like here in South Florida. I've yet to see one from the 1950's that's survived down here under that level of neglect.

-Kurt
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Old 11-29-20, 06:42 PM
  #23423  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Looks like what any 1970's Raleigh left outside tends to look like here in South Florida. I've yet to see one from the 1950's that's survived down here under that level of neglect.

-Kurt
Yeah, I'm not sure these two will survive, either. Lots of seized parts. The chaincases are complete, however.
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Old 11-29-20, 06:43 PM
  #23424  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure these two will survive, either. Lots of seized parts. The chaincases are complete, however.
Isn't the men's version one of those oddball 1930's models with slack DL-1 geometry on EA3 wheels? Might be worth giving that one a new life.

-Kurt
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Old 11-29-20, 06:54 PM
  #23425  
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They both appear to be Sports frames. Dawns?
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