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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-01-21, 12:08 PM
  #23651  
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Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
Morning of the New Year: Itís supposed to rain pretty much all day today, so I did a quick run on the Sprite this morning to try and get my daily 5+ in before it hit. Managed .75 miles and the rain started. Then quit after Iíd put the bike away.

New Yearís resolutions: Finish the 55 Royal Enfield. Finally build the PX-10. And find myself a nice condition 70ís Sports with a 23Ē frame. Havenít had one of those in 45 years.
Wish you were closer to me because have a nice one that I would like to pass on.
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Old 01-01-21, 04:00 PM
  #23652  
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Originally Posted by dweenk View Post
Wish you were closer to me because have a nice one that I would like to pass on.
Where in Maryland? Ashland, VA isn't all that far south, and I normally (which means this year doesn't necessarily count) head up to Westminster for the swap meet next month.
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Old 01-02-21, 01:55 AM
  #23653  
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What did I just buy?

I picked this up this afternoon, its rough but it does ride.
Its a Dunelt, not sure of the year. The rear hub is an unknown, the brake arm has no brand on it. It sort of looks like a German Centrix hub but its a 40 spoke hub on a Dunlop rim. The rims are pretty rusty but seem solid. The bike is really rough but it was cheap at only $50.
Its a bit small for me, I was hoping to find something taller but there appears to be room to raise the seat quite a bit.
The speedometer and light kit are going to get tossed, the rear fender needs some work, it looks like someone beat on it with a pipe.
The bottom bracket has a grease port on the right side.
The rear hub has a grease fitting that's on a short stand pipe about 1/2" tall, with a grease fitting on top. The stand pipe appears to be part of the hub shell.
The saddle has a Wright logo on the back.
I was able to give the chain a shot of WD40 and pump up the tires and it does ride and stop, although it no doubt needs major work.
Any idea as to how old? The hub doesn't have any date codes showing that I can see and I didn't find any serial numbers anywhere on the frame yet.
Both tires are Dunlop branded and they match, both are badly dry rotted but they seem to hold air ok so far.
The seller gave me two other 'parts' bikes that aren't even remotely related to this bike, but I took them anyway figuring I can sell them to fund this one.
Its rough, but for $50, its the best deal I found considering that most $200 bikes I looked at weren't much better, or weren't even able to ride up the street and back. Keep in mind I use the term ridable loosely here, its by no means ready to use but the fact that I am able to sit on it and pedal it up and down the street is big plus compared to most others I've looked at.
The rear tube has a woods valve stem, the front is a common schrader valve.
The lettering on the frame is all painted, not decals.

I'm not sure at this point what I'm doing with it, but with enough time and labor it is fixable.
I'd have likely left it if it weren't for the oddball rear hub.
I'm used to seeing Sturmey Archer or Perry rear hubs on English single speed bikes, this doesn't appear to be from that family.
The hub shell looks a lot like an old Centrix hub but I never saw one in 40h on a larger bike, most of those were on kids bikes. Surprisingly the coaster brake works fine. The rims are even still true.
The rims are rusty, and the chrome is no doubt gone, but they don't seem to be pitted. I'm thinking that if they look okay under the tires, I may just sand and paint them black and rebuild both hubs. The bars, cranks, and the rest of the chrome seems like it'll polish up fine.
The paint is another story, any sort of polishing will eliminate what's left of the decals. Maybe a good cleaning and sealing it with clear is an option to retain the original look.
One bad part is that they sawed off the end of the original light bracket. The Cat Eye bracket on it now is on top of the original and the angle bracket they made to hold the current headlight is made from the piece they cut off.
The generator is one of those that rub the tire on the left side. Surprisingly, the thing still works and both lights still light up if you can manage to still pedal it after the generator is engaged. Flipping that thing into the tire feels like your dragging an anchor. It must have seen a lot of use because the tire is worn smooth where the generator contacts the tire.








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Old 01-02-21, 10:53 AM
  #23654  
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Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
Where in Maryland? Ashland, VA isn't all that far south, and I normally (which means this year doesn't necessarily count) head up to Westminster for the swap meet next month.
I am on the eastern shore (Salisbury), about 3 1/2 hours from Wesminster.
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Old 01-02-21, 11:06 AM
  #23655  
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Originally Posted by 2fat2fly View Post
What did I just buy?
I'd say it's a circa 1960 Dunelt with a Birmingham front fork but fitted out and distributed by Raleigh. They often used up old stock Birmingham parts after the 1960 takeover. Perhaps it's a Sachs-Torpedo hub? A picture would help. Don't sand and paint the rims. Try to de-rust them first.
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Old 01-02-21, 01:07 PM
  #23656  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I'd say it's a circa 1960 Dunelt with a Birmingham front fork but fitted out and distributed by Raleigh. They often used up old stock Birmingham parts after the 1960 takeover. Perhaps it's a Sachs-Torpedo hub? A picture would help. Don't sand and paint the rims. Try to de-rust them first.
It didn't catch my eye when I first brought it home but it does have a cable pulley on the seat tube, so the coaster brake may not be original. The bars and chainstay though show no sign of having anything clamped to them, and there's no sign of it having a rear caliper. Maybe a coaster brake three speed? Usually a removed lever would leave a mark.
The cable pulley has a gray plastic wheel on it, which makes me think it may not be as old as the bike? When did they start using plastic cable guide wheels?

It could be a Torpedo hub, but there's no markings on the shell or arm that I can see.
The sides of the rims are worn down to bare steel, the front may clean up to have some shine but the rear will likely be just bare metal. Since the rear hub isn't correct, I'll likely strip that wheel down and try soaking that rim first. I did try to see if the spoke nipples turn, and every one I tried does turn freely.

Did the Dunelt bikes back then use the same Dunlop Endrick rims as all the other brands?
I really wish there was a source for new rims in 32/40h.
The bike is sort of at a point where its a toss up whether or not its worth fixing. To make it right, it needs new rims, an early AW hub, and a set of calipers and levers, all on top of the usual items like tires and a complete relube.
My thought is that even if it doesn't become my daily rider, it'll make a good second bike. I wish it were a slightly larger frame.
What I keep running into here is bad rims, nearly every last bike I've looked at has rims that are rusted to some degree. This one is the first that hasn't been rusted in a way that makes the rims weak. This rust is harder, more even, most have flaky, scaly rust concentrated in one area where the bike sat on the ground with a flat tire. Even the really clean looking bikes all had some degree of rust on them.
A few even had rusted out frames. This bike was chained to mailbox post in someone's yard out for sale. I go that way at least weekly and hadn't seen it before, there's no telling where it was stored before but like most, they had no problem leaving it out in the rain on the lawn with a for sale sign on it and a few others. All were 'ridable' in that they had air in the tires, pedaled, rolled, and stopped, but not much beyond that.
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Old 01-02-21, 02:06 PM
  #23657  
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I think the rear brake bridge would maybe show wear if a caliper had been installed, the bar chrome is tougher than paint. This isn't really a candidate for a thorough restoration but you can have fun with it to make it your own if you're so inclined. I've restored worse in my day, only to give them to friends or sell cheap. The pulley was probably steel but the plastic ones came in around '62 so it could be original. It also could have had a TCW coaster hub although I've only seen those on Raleigh branded bikes.
Endricks are fine rims, in fact they were Raleigh's choice on their club models at the time albeit in the EA1 size. Top tier Sports bikes (Raleigh, Rudge, Humber) got the Westricks but it's just a prestige thing. If you really need to restore this, PM me to discuss. I've got some rims and parts.
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Old 01-02-21, 02:42 PM
  #23658  
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2fat2fly Detailed pics of the hub from the other side will help a lot. The clamp on the top tube appears to have been a fulcrum clip so likely this was a three speed originally; you'd not necessarily see any scratches on the bars. Like clubman said, try de-rusting the wheels first - you might be amazed at the results. The frame looks like a nice repaint is due though it may polish out; you can certainly get decals to replace the originals but they may cost more than the bike itself. The rest of the chrome looks pretty good to be honest; it won't be perfect but you only need elbow grease and some cleaners/solvents.

Finally, don't toss the headlight. It might also clean up nicely. I had what I thought was a totally non-functional italian light on one bike; it was completely coated with spray paint and didn't seem to work. A bit of effort and I have a working (and original) 50s light and dynamo.....

To be honest, and I did this with my Humber: concentrate on basic cleaning without going for a full on restoration; just get it nice and clean and as shiny as you can. Then ride it for a while until you decide if a) you hate it; b) you like it but its OK the way it is, or c) you love it and you need to see it back to its original glory. Whatever the outcome it will be fun.

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Old 01-02-21, 03:12 PM
  #23659  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I think the rear brake bridge would maybe show wear if a caliper had been installed, the bar chrome is tougher than paint. This isn't really a candidate for a thorough restoration but you can have fun with it to make it your own if you're so inclined. I've restored worse in my day, only to give them to friends or sell cheap. The pulley was probably steel but the plastic ones came in around '62 so it could be original. It also could have had a TCW coaster hub although I've only seen those on Raleigh branded bikes.
Endricks are fine rims, in fact they were Raleigh's choice on their club models at the time albeit in the EA1 size. Top tier Sports bikes (Raleigh, Rudge, Humber) got the Westricks but it's just a prestige thing. If you really need to restore this, PM me to discuss. I've got some rims and parts.
I went outside and took a closer look at this in the daylight. After some scrubbing with some steel wool I can see the reaction arm is stamped Komet Super, there's also a tiny F&S on the hub shell just above the oil port.
Two other things I noticed is that the tires are marked 26x1 1/4" not 1 3/8". The tires held air overnight, I oiled the chain and took it for a bit of ride. I was surprised that the old Western Auto branded speedometer still works. I wiped off the green mossy layer off the lens and saw the mileage too. Someone did some serious riding on this thing.
There are no tenths, only miles. I went up and down my 1/2 mile long road here and it clocked one mile,
The rear hub works but the brakes self engage when you push the bike backwards if you don't step down forward on the pedals a bit after stopping. No doubt what ever lube in there has turned to glue. I did give it a shot of motor oil before riding it though. The rear rack doesn't belong, someone made up sheet metal adapters that give it a place to attach since the fenders mount low to the rear. It going to take a lot of rust remover to get this one clean.
It will need new wheels, the more I look at them the less hopeful I am that they can ever be even somewhat presentable again.
The bike feels small, even though I can raise the bars and saddle, the bike feels short with my knees interfering with the handle bars when riding it. I've looked at others and ridden a few newer Raleigh bikes in a similar frame size and they weren't this cramped feeling. Its as if the seat is closer to the stem on this one.
One of the junk parts bikes that came with this is an old Rollfast, that bike has the same size frame but gives me a longer arms reach. Its in about the same shape but with a Bendix rear hub. The other parts bike is either a Sears or Huffy with a Shimano rear hub, its cleaner but a very cheap bike. I only took that one because its got two new tires on it and half as much rust. After seeing the different tire sizes, I don't think that one will even donate tires to this bike, unless I swap over he wheels but I'm not about to put a Shimano hub on a Dunelt.




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Old 01-02-21, 05:23 PM
  #23660  
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Komet Super brakes are no great shake so sourcing an SA 3 speed hub and requisite rear caliper set is the way to go. I like markk900's suggestion of getting a feel for the bike.. If it hasn't been tweaked in an accident, you'll probably like it IF it's not too small for you. Wait for a 23" frame if this one doesn't work for you.

BTW I love the chain stay shim they provided with the brake arm. Prevents damage when you cinch it down. And the Fichel & Sachs logo may have a date code beside it. Check out hubstripping.com for more info.

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Old 01-03-21, 02:08 AM
  #23661  
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The bike seems to ride okay, but the bars hit my knees. A longer stem would help, plus a taller seat post. I've ridden other bikes with smaller frames, I've got an old Schwinn middleweight that I ride on occasion that's fine but its got huge, wide bars and I bought it an extra long seat post.
My guess is that somewhere along the line both wheels on this were changed since they both use ISO 597 tires. The front rim isn't identical to the rear, the spokes in the front wheel never rusted, the rear wheel spokes are completely rusted. The front rim has nearly perfectly straight sides, the rear has a slight spread toward the tire. The rear rim also has obvious caliper wear but there's no caliper. I'm thinking it likely had a three speed coaster brake at some point.
For right now, its going to sit till I find a set of wheels with an AW hub. I'll tear it down and start cleaning up the parts that do belong and it'll hang on a hook till I find some wheels. The rear rack, its homemade mounts, the speedometer, and headlight set will not go back onto the bike in the end.

I was surprised to see that the rear fender emblem is just another headbadge, so the banged up fender can be swapped out without needing any decals.
A buddy said he can fix the paint with an airbrush once I remove the rust. Leaving the original lettering untouched.
The front fender ,and chainguard are badly rusted, the rear fender is badly dented.
The lettering on this almost looks like they painted it with some sort of stencil with a brush, the pin striping is brush painted as is the Dunelt logos. They had to have some sort of guide to mass produce these like this.
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Old 01-03-21, 05:38 AM
  #23662  
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A Komet Super is light duty in my opinion for a full size man's bike. They work, but not great.
I was thinking maybe you had a pair of Schwinn wheels on that but I don't recall them using 32/40h wheels.
The wheels are likely older than the bike.
I see the BB shell oil port is plastic, the shift cable pulley is gray plastic but it could have been replaced, the saddle looks original, the bars, stem cranks are all original and look like they will clean up.
Someone who is proficient with an air brush can really bring that old paint job back with some strategic touch up work and a coat of clear to seal everything so it don't get any worse.
I was told by someone many years ago that the older model Raleigh's were hand pinstriped and lettered, I can't say how long that continued for. I do know that I've got a Robin Hood here with a hub dated 2-61, that's got water slide type decals that are falling off it in the wind.
It does not have an oil port in the BB. Many years ago I had a taller version of that frame, I think mine was circa 1954. Mine came to me in the early 70's with a BSA hub and shifter, the same style forks as yours, and the same saddle. Mine had a "Dunelt" chainring, with a wider chain guard. I don't remember any riveted badge on the rear fender, I believe mine had a decal that matched the headbadge. The bike had a ton of pinstriping, every tube and both fenders were outlined.
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Old 01-03-21, 12:08 PM
  #23663  
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Still Out There
Here's one for sale in Toronto @ $80.00

Looks like a Dunelt Skyliner with a Raleigh chain guard
Looks a bit like mine that was swiped a few years ago.

As bought but it looked like this when swiped...
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Old 01-03-21, 12:56 PM
  #23664  
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gster It seems to have a Heron crank as well.....maybe a bitsa? But I do have to say when you compare what you can get in Toronto for 80 canadian Pesos vs what 2fat2fly got for $80 USD it really shows how the markets vary.
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Old 01-03-21, 01:00 PM
  #23665  
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Originally Posted by 2fat2fly View Post
My guess is that somewhere along the line both wheels on this were changed since they both use ISO 597 tires..
I've got a pair of EA1 Endrick wheels in the basement that came off of a minty 1955 Dunelt. When I sold the bike, the buyer wanted EA3 rims so I swapped another set I had lying around that weren't nearly as nice. So your bike could have had 26 x 1 1/4 wheels. Just a data point.
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Old 01-03-21, 03:20 PM
  #23666  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
gster It seems to have a Heron crank as well.....maybe a bitsa? But I do have to say when you compare what you can get in Toronto for 80 canadian Pesos vs what 2fat2fly got for $80 USD it really shows how the markets vary.
I suspect that Canada was a fairly big market for Raleigh.
3 speeds seem plentiful here.
There's always plenty of Ladies bikes offered.
Worth buying for a nice wheel set.
There's a ladies Superbe down the street locked to a post and slowly
and slowing turning to rust....
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Old 01-03-21, 03:26 PM
  #23667  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I've got a pair of EA1 Endrick wheels in the basement that came off of a minty 1955 Dunelt. When I sold the bike, the buyer wanted EA3 rims so I swapped another set I had lying around that weren't nearly as nice. So your bike could have had 26 x 1 1/4 wheels. Just a data point.
Would EA1 rims have coexisted with the hockey stick chain guard and plastic BB oil port?

I found another cable guide wheel bracket with no wheel on it hanging from the bottom of the saddle, the small boss where the wheel rotates on is broken off. So maybe the plastic wheel is a replacement, just a long time ago.
I looked at a Robin Hood that I was told was bought in 1970 that had the same little chrome pad where the coaster brake arm attaches, that bike had a three speed with a coaster brake. That bike however had an even small frame.

Looking at pictures of older Dunelts I see a lot of variations. I see at least three different forks, the type I have, one with a flat, shorter crown with a thin chrome cap, and a D shaped tubular fork
I also see three different chain rings, one reads DUNELT, another has sort of a snowflake pattern, and the three spire design like mine.
I see the chainring that's on mine on other Raleigh brands as well, (Hercules, Robin Hood, etc.).

I also see two types of BB oil ports, most have the port on the left side with a metal flip cap, mine is on the right, with a small plastic cap that's sort of hard to get too. I don't think I've ever run across one like this before.

What years used a second headbadge on the rear fender? The badge on the headtube is the same as the badge mounted directly on top of the rear fender with the same type of rivets.

The crank arms on this bike rounded on the edges, and I don't see the the Sir Raleigh logo. Sir Raleigh is also missing from the stem.

I do wish this was a taller frame, but I test rode a few 23" frames and they felt a tad big big to me, or at least harder to get on.
This is easy to get onto but short. I've already banged me knees on the handlebars.
My aging knees like a bike that lets me get better leg extension but my aging back and hips want a bike easier to get my leg over.
One of the 'parts' bikes is an unknown American three speed, also in a 21" frame but that bike sits taller, with almost two more inches of stand over height and for some reason fits me better. Too bad the bike is a rickety old pile of junk with a growling old Shimano 333 hub. It shifts but sounds like a machine shop when it turns. Its not rusty but that's all I can say about it. I thought it was going to donate a pair of almost new looking tires to the Dunelt but that bike has 590mm tires. If its rims weren't so lumped up and flat spotted I'd consider finding a 36h SA hub and using them for the Dunelt till I find something better but they're just too far gone and with the cost of spokes, its not worth it to build up a set of junk rims like that.
There's been a Hercules listed not too far from me for a month now for $250, I passed on looking at that bike because it was too small, but here I am considering building up one that's the same size that's in terrible condition. What concerns me is that I'll have more into this by the time I get it up and running properly then if I had just bought the too small Hercules in the first place, and still not have as nice of a bike in the end. The Hercules is likely 10 years newer and in near new condition.
I'm $80 into the Dunelt, but I sold the speedometer and cable today for $50, so that helps, so I've only got $30 into it in reality now.
I can buy new steel rims but they're Chinese or Taiwanese junk, and only 36h. Although I need two complete wheels anyhow, I sort of feel this needs a proper 32/40h wheelset, and finding a 40h AW hub is a lot easier than finding a 36h version, or a good English front hub to match in 36h.
I also don't mind losing the 597mm rims, there's just too few tire options out there, and none are good from what I've been reading. It looks like Kenda or nothing in new tires.
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Old 01-03-21, 04:15 PM
  #23668  
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There's many variations of most Sports because there were many different markets. And then there was the Raleigh takeover of 1960 to muck things up even more. Sure it could have had a chain guard. You'll never be able to positively identify the original specs of your bike and you shouldn't sweat some details. I bought a '59 SA hub on a bent frame Dunelt for the parts and it came with two different headbages, a Birmingham on the front and an England on the back. There was a very early prewar badge that had Smethwick on it. I'm sure I've seen late 60's Dunelts with decals instead of head badges that say Nottingham. Your bike has to be ~1960 because of the Raleigh rear stays coming off the back of the rear drops even with the axle. It's a Raleigh made frame. The other two types of forks were also Raleigh, but yours is Birmingham. Your crank is a generic Raleigh that they used for their 2nd tier marques.

I've bought and fixed bikes because I enjoy it. The value/return equation isn't that important even though I've never been truly flush. It's a hobby.

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Old 01-03-21, 05:38 PM
  #23669  
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Just a fun little sticker I came across on Etsy today in the style of the old Sturmey Archer shifters.
Three speed camping sticker - Etsy



There is also a matching Society of three speeds - Wordpress blog where they set out the "rules" for the three speed camping challenge if you're so inclined.

A bit hipster to my taste, but fun nonetheless.
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Old 01-03-21, 08:03 PM
  #23670  
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HaHaHa! adventurepdx runs the Society Of Three Speeds, he is here on the forums and makes those stickers.


Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Just a fun little sticker I came across on Etsy today in the style of the old Sturmey Archer shifters.
Three speed camping sticker - Etsy



There is also a matching Society of three speeds - Wordpress blog where they set out the "rules" for the three speed camping challenge if you're so inclined.

A bit hipster to my taste, but fun nonetheless.
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Old 01-03-21, 09:50 PM
  #23671  
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I don't know where "around here" is for you but in DC and NYC the prices for used bikes have gone thru the roof while supply is at drought level. Probably changed now that its genuine winter but spring thru fall the chorus of where can I find a bike has been long and loud.

Originally Posted by dirtman View Post
...
Bikes have been a tough sell around here all year, it seems junk sells and decent bikes just sit. They go crazy for Walmart bikes but older or classic bikes never get a reply. When they do, its from someone far away who's willing to make the drive. The last bike I sold went to a guy who drove 350 miles each way. It had been listed for over four years.
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Old 01-04-21, 03:05 AM
  #23672  
JaccoW
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Originally Posted by jamesj View Post
HaHaHa! adventurepdx runs the Society Of Three Speeds, he is here on the forums and makes those stickers.
Cool, well let's mention @adventurepdx him again and see what else he has to say.
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Old 01-04-21, 05:25 AM
  #23673  
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Originally Posted by erileykc View Post
I don't know where "around here" is for you but in DC and NYC the prices for used bikes have gone thru the roof while supply is at drought level. Probably changed now that its genuine winter but spring thru fall the chorus of where can I find a bike has been long and loud.
I'm about two hours from either DC or NYC, about 40 min. from Philly, I haven't seen much change here all year long. I listed a few bikes over the summer that I bought and didn't like or didn't need but nothing sold particularly fast. None ever do.
I've watched a few dozen bikes on CL and FB here for a while now, nothing seems to move regardless of the price. I've bought a few really cheap too that were listed for long periods with no interest. I've been watching one Hercules and one Raleigh Sports for a few months now that are both pretty clean looking and both priced pretty reasonably that haven't sold all summer.
I bought a dozen old bikes at an estate sale back in Feb. I was after one in the lot and had to take them all. I kept the one I wanted, and listed the rest. All but one was a Walmart type bike. I listed them for $100 each, as is. The Walmart bikes sold in a few weeks, but the best one, an older Gitane never got a reply. I finally parted it out and let a friend list the parts on fleabay. The bike brought four times what I was asking one part at a time, and worse yet, nearly the every part went to the same bidder, not more than 20 miles away from here. Since my friend lives in MD, the buyer also paid shipping for the parts bit by bit over the course of five or so weeks. The guy won just about everything but the crankset and Ideal saddle, both of which went overseas. My friend offered the guy the ability to pick it up here, but he wanted it shipped and he paid online. He paid an extra $100 just in shipping by the time he was done piece by piece.
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Old 01-04-21, 01:09 PM
  #23674  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
Cool, well let's mention @adventurepdx him again and see what else he has to say.
What else do I have to say about what?

I mean, Iíve been around this thread for ten years. Iím not as vocal as the usual subjects, but Iím here. In fact, I commented here last week!

And Society of Three Speeds has been around for eight years and has about 300 members from all around the globe. Iím sure Iíve mentioned the club here before, but I donít think Iíve gotten much of a response.

But tell me: what makes the Three Speed Camping Challenge a little too hipster for ya?
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Old 01-04-21, 03:47 PM
  #23675  
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Mexican Raleigh
I found this for sale on Facebook marketplace here in mexico


He has a few rod and lever bikes
The others are Benottas that they still sell here.
I've messaged the seller

Also saw this red one still wrapped. NOS?

Last edited by gster; 01-04-21 at 03:50 PM.
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