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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-04-21, 03:56 PM
  #23676  
gster
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Still Out There
Here's one for sale in Toronto @ $80.00

Looks like a Dunelt Skyliner with a Raleigh chain guard
Looks a bit like mine that was swiped a few years ago.

As bought but it looked like this when swiped...
The bike's been sold and now re listed @ $140.00!
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Old 01-04-21, 04:24 PM
  #23677  
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Mexican Raleigh
I found this for sale on Facebook marketplace here in mexico
Pick of the litter,.....or buy them all!
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Old 01-04-21, 05:29 PM
  #23678  
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Good Ďun

You got a good Ďun
Originally Posted by JIMBO53 View Post
I started collecting vintage British 3 speed roadster bikes this year, veering off from my regular prewar American balloon and motorbike style bikes. These old Brits have saved my sanity during the pandemic, having accumulated 11 so far.
My most recent find was an Ebay find, a 1965 Rudge Sport. It was local pickup only, and being 4 hours away gave me pause (for a short while, anyway...) until I told myself "It's a 65 Rudge, you fool! Fill up the tank and hit the road!"
What you see is the condition as found, with the addition of tires, tubes, a quick wipe down with a damp rag and a favorite Brooks B72 saddle with my lock and cable bag bearing my 1974 LAW (League of American Wheelmen) Century Run patch, the year I got serious about biking, and I'm still going strong at age 67!
It's a 23" frame (perfect for my 6' body) and has very nice Dunlop stainless steel rims. Everything is original, paint in rather exceptional condition with the exception of the dinged up chain guard and some flaky decals, which I've decided not to replace to maintain the authenticity of the beautiful bike. The eye is drawn to the shiny Open Hand chainring, one of the most beautiful chainrings out there, IMHO. Pedal blocks are original and dusty, but not much wear at all.
A unique item (to me at least...) it the chrome steel Oxford frame pump. Never seen one, and couldn't find anything on the internet about it. The head badge is pristine, and such an iconic design.
As Brits would say, I'm quite chuffed with my find, and happy to end a pretty dismal year with such a find.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!









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Old 01-04-21, 06:41 PM
  #23679  
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Litter

By ďMexican RaleighĒ do you mean Ďmade in Mexicoí?
Not all classic Raleighs are English made, though Iíve not heard of a Mexican factory before. Quality can be rough on the offshore produced bikes.
Originally Posted by IsleRide View Post
Pick of the litter,.....or buy them all!
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Old 01-04-21, 07:02 PM
  #23680  
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Originally Posted by gster View Post
Mexican Raleigh
I found this for sale on Facebook marketplace here in mexico
Those look like fairly current Indian-production rod brake roadsters. The rod brake stirrup also looks a lot worse than a Flying Pigeon.

Wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole unless proven otherwise.

-Kurt
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Old 01-04-21, 09:18 PM
  #23681  
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Those look like fairly current Indian-production rod brake roadsters. The rod brake stirrup also looks a lot worse than a Flying Pigeon.

Wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole unless proven otherwise.

-Kurt
Thankfully I don't have a 10 foot pole...
But I could get one.
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Old 01-05-21, 01:20 AM
  #23682  
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Raleigh grifter 1981


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Old 01-05-21, 03:10 AM
  #23683  
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Has anyone ever heard of Safe-Tee Tires? I just picked up a bike with a set of 37-590 tires that has a set, they look like the tread on the 27x1 3/8" knobby tires sold for road bikes. They say made in Taiwan.
They came with the bike, a 1973 Hercules with Sturmey Archer branded Endrick rims, I mounted them up and absolutely cannot get them to pop up on the bead.
I've tried higher pressure, heat, a tire seating tool, lube on the bead, everything, one 6" section refuses to seat correctly on each rim. I even took it for a short ride but it didn't help.
I can't say how old they are, they came in an Avenir sleeve, so they came from a Raleigh/Diamond Back dealer but the only markings on them is Safe-Tee, 26x1 3/8", 37-590, and Taiwan in small print.
I messed around with them for three hours and gave up last night. I soaped up the bead and rims with dish detergent and left them inflated to 75 psi, maybe they're 'pop'. sitting there. The tires I removed were marked 37-590 Carlisle Made in USA and they fit just fine.
Anyone ever run into a tire that just won't seat right no matter what?
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Old 01-05-21, 04:06 AM
  #23684  
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Originally Posted by oldlugs View Post
Has anyone ever heard of Safe-Tee Tires? I just picked up a bike with a set of 37-590 tires that has a set, they look like the tread on the 27x1 3/8" knobby tires sold for road bikes. They say made in Taiwan.
They came with the bike, a 1973 Hercules with Sturmey Archer branded Endrick rims, I mounted them up and absolutely cannot get them to pop up on the bead.
I've tried higher pressure, heat, a tire seating tool, lube on the bead, everything, one 6" section refuses to seat correctly on each rim. I even took it for a short ride but it didn't help.
I can't say how old they are, they came in an Avenir sleeve, so they came from a Raleigh/Diamond Back dealer but the only markings on them is Safe-Tee, 26x1 3/8", 37-590, and Taiwan in small print.
I messed around with them for three hours and gave up last night. I soaped up the bead and rims with dish detergent and left them inflated to 75 psi, maybe they're 'pop'. sitting there. The tires I removed were marked 37-590 Carlisle Made in USA and they fit just fine.
Anyone ever run into a tire that just won't seat right no matter what?
I have much less experience than others here but I have always had success by inflating, or deflating, as the case may be, the tire to about half pressure so it will be more "squirmy" and riding it around the block on a warm day on warm pavement.
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Old 01-05-21, 09:31 AM
  #23685  
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
What else do I have to say about what?

I mean, Iíve been around this thread for ten years. Iím not as vocal as the usual subjects, but Iím here. In fact, I commented here last week!

And Society of Three Speeds has been around for eight years and has about 300 members from all around the globe. Iím sure Iíve mentioned the club here before, but I donít think Iíve gotten much of a response.

But tell me: what makes the Three Speed Camping Challenge a little too hipster for ya?
It's the American temptation to make everything bicycle related into a lifestyle that makes it a bit hipster for me. But as I understand it the bicycle culture is really big in Portland?

I do everything by bike and public transport so I can probably finish both the Three speed camping and the Midnite bicycle league challenge this year on just my regular bike use alone. I especially love cycling in the forest at night in the rain for some reason.
Most of those things are just "getting somewhere by bike" for most people in the Netherlands. But midnight riding those distances is something I usually do at least once a week and often longer.
Though, would you be willing to accept a 5-speed bike for those challenges?

No judgement here though. I realize things are different in other parts of the world and you do have a fun Wordpress blog.
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Old 01-05-21, 04:11 PM
  #23686  
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Originally Posted by FBOATSB View Post
I have much less experience than others here but I have always had success by inflating, or deflating, as the case may be, the tire to about half pressure so it will be more "squirmy" and riding it around the block on a warm day on warm pavement.
The ride on a warm day may be tough to do in NJ in January though.

I usually found that just making sure the bead is clean and the tire is fully inflated and let them sit a while, inside if possible. They usually jump up on the bead in a week or two just sitting. The tire will stretch or size to the rim a bit with time. The tires are probably older and not as pliable as they could be, as the rubber gives way a bit they will 'increase' in diameter a bit and seat on their own.
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Old 01-05-21, 08:24 PM
  #23687  
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
It's the American temptation to make everything bicycle related into a lifestyle that makes it a bit hipster for me. But as I understand it the bicycle culture is really big in Portland?

I do everything by bike and public transport so I can probably finish both the Three speed camping and the Midnite bicycle league challenge this year on just my regular bike use alone. I especially love cycling in the forest at night in the rain for some reason.
Most of those things are just "getting somewhere by bike" for most people in the Netherlands. But midnight riding those distances is something I usually do at least once a week and often longer.
Though, would you be willing to accept a 5-speed bike for those challenges?

No judgement here though. I realize things are different in other parts of the world and you do have a fun Wordpress blog.
Thanks for the clarification. It's just that "hipster" is a loaded term these days. It's usually used in a derogatory sense, i.e. no one positively calls someone/something a "hipster". So it's pretty easy to put someone on the defensive if you use it.

As for us Americans turning bikes into a lifestyle, it's because we're not in a country like the Netherlands, where utility cycling is standard, normal, "no big deal". No one makes a big deal out of cycling in a country where cycling is akin to simply breathing. But here in the States, we cyclists are a minority, so bicycling becomes part of our "identity" by default. And creating a vibrant cycling culture is one way to make us feel like we're not the weirdos everyone else sees us to be. Getting folks to have fun with bikes is really important in areas where infrastructure is lacking. It's easy to get discouraged about cycling, so having some fun with a bike lifestyle is a good way to keep folks motivated.

As for the challenges, it is fine to do it on a five speed. (Midnite Bicycle League is not a Society of Three Speeds challenge, so it doesn't matter what bike you do it with.)

Thanks for the compliments!
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Old 01-06-21, 03:43 AM
  #23688  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
There's many variations of most Sports because there were many different markets. And then there was the Raleigh takeover of 1960 to muck things up even more. Sure it could have had a chain guard. You'll never be able to positively identify the original specs of your bike and you shouldn't sweat some details. I bought a '59 SA hub on a bent frame Dunelt for the parts and it came with two different headbages, a Birmingham on the front and an England on the back. There was a very early prewar badge that had Smethwick on it. I'm sure I've seen late 60's Dunelts with decals instead of head badges that say Nottingham. Your bike has to be ~1960 because of the Raleigh rear stays coming off the back of the rear drops even with the axle. It's a Raleigh made frame. The other two types of forks were also Raleigh, but yours is Birmingham. Your crank is a generic Raleigh that they used for their 2nd tier marques.

I've bought and fixed bikes because I enjoy it. The value/return equation isn't that important even though I've never been truly flush. It's a hobby.

What is supposed to put into the fitting on the rear hub? Grease or oil? The tip of that 'oil' port flips over sideways and there's a tiny hole in the middle of the little piece that stick up. (There's also a tiny hole in the end of the flip cap as well).
I gave it shot of thin oil at first, and a gave it a few shots of heavier oil later on.
I removed the rack, lights, adjusted and raised the saddle, oiled up the chain, pedals, front caliper pivot and cable, gave the front hub a good shot of oil in case the bearings were dry, and gave the bottom bracket a shot of motor oil as well. The tires held air fine, they have cracks on the sidewalls but good enough tread. I took it for a longer ride yesterday, about 5 miles or so. The first few blocks were a bit rough, the one pedal wanted to flip around under my foot every so often, but eventually the oil worked its way in and it freed up. The chain too was a bit stiff but a good soaking with heavier oil eventually worked its way into each link and it freed up. After a while it was riding just fine. The front brake is about useless, no matter how much pressure I put on the lever the pads don't grip the rim very well. They are making good contact because the pads are cleaning off the rust on the rim pretty fast. I had to stop and fiddle with the speedometer drive, it kept coming loose and making noise, it seems its only attached with a few pieces of wire twisted around the spokes in several places. The wire had rusted away and let the thing jump around. I tied it back onto the spokes using the bits of solid wire that were left taped to the frame from the removed lighting kit.

The lighting kit I removed said Royce on it, 6v 3.8w, Union Cycle LTD.
It worked but I'm not a fan of those generators. If I'm going to have lights, I want lights all the time, not just when I'm moving. I may gut and sandblast the rusty headlight housing and see about mounting a modern LED light inside it. I'm sure I can rig the LED panel from one of those free Harbor Freight lights into that thing somehow and run it off a single rechargeable Li-Ion battery. It would no doubt run all night if needed that way. I forgot and left one of those lights on one day working out in the back yard over the summer. Four months later I saw a funny glow outback one day while getting something out of the shed, here the flashlight was still sitting on the stump where I was using it and still lit. It was dim but still lit. That was on AAA batteries. A buddy takes one of those blue multi LED lights and just rubber bands it to his handlebars at night, he's got one he painted red in the rear too taped to the seat post.
I do ride at night, and I do have a decent modern LED light set I can use if needed but it somehow wouldn't look right on this old bike. When its really hot in the summer, I try to ride more at night rather than deal with the heat and humidity.
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Old 01-06-21, 05:49 AM
  #23689  
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Originally Posted by 2fat2fly View Post
What is supposed to put into the fitting on the rear hub? Grease or oil? The tip of that 'oil' port flips over sideways and there's a tiny hole in the middle of the little piece that stick up. (There's also a tiny hole in the end of the flip cap as well).
I gave it shot of thin oil at first, and a gave it a few shots of heavier oil later on.
Sturmey hubs work best with a straight 20 weight dino oil, basically light machine oil without detergents, which motor oils have. Don't use the vegetable based 3-in-1 oil or it will gum up. Don't use too much oil or it will leak out onto your rims. Once it's running fine, a few drops per half year will suffice. Your wheel and axle bearings should be opened up, cleaned and packed with fresh bearings and grease. Or not, these bikes can be stubbornly resilient. Oil ports allowed you to loosen up old grease but modern greases made them more or less obsolete. You've read Sheldon Browns pages on English 3 speeds? It answers most of your questions.

SA oil had a handy spout that would reach into the spokes to get at the oiler. It's still manageable.

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Old 01-07-21, 11:29 PM
  #23690  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Sturmey hubs work best with a straight 20 weight dino oil, basically light machine oil without detergents, which motor oils have. Don't use the vegetable based 3-in-1 oil or it will gum up. Don't use too much oil or it will leak out onto your rims. Once it's running fine, a few drops per half year will suffice. Your wheel and axle bearings should be opened up, cleaned and packed with fresh bearings and grease. Or not, these bikes can be stubbornly resilient. Oil ports allowed you to loosen up old grease but modern greases made them more or less obsolete. You've read Sheldon Browns pages on English 3 speeds? It answers most of your questions.

SA oil had a handy spout that would reach into the spokes to get at the oiler. It's still manageable.
Didn't that bike he's got have a german coaster brake? Those take grease just like a Bendix hub.

Last edited by barnfind; 01-07-21 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 01-07-21, 11:39 PM
  #23691  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Sturmey hubs work best with a straight 20 weight dino oil, basically light machine oil without detergents, which motor oils have. Don't use the vegetable based 3-in-1 oil or it will gum up. Don't use too much oil or it will leak out onto your rims. Once it's running fine, a few drops per half year will suffice. Your wheel and axle bearings should be opened up, cleaned and packed with fresh bearings and grease. Or not, these bikes can be stubbornly resilient. Oil ports allowed you to loosen up old grease but modern greases made them more or less obsolete. You've read Sheldon Browns pages on English 3 speeds? It answers most of your questions.

SA oil had a handy spout that would reach into the spokes to get at the oiler. It's still manageable.

I figured if I'm going to ride this thing the way it is, I'd best check the bearings and give it some fresh lube. It was fairly warm this afternoon and I had a few hours to kill so I pulled the wheels and gave them a shot with some wire wheel cleaner, (hydroflouric acid). I did a 50/50 mix between soap and acid so it wouldn't eat the spoke nipples. The front wheel cleaned up fairly well, the brake path on each side is pretty much bare metal with no chrome left but it cleaned up nice considering what it looked like before.
The rear wheel however is a different story. Its got no chrome left, when I first cleaned it, the chrome had the texture of 80 grit sandpaper with all the pitting and peeling chrome.
The rim is sound but ugly.
I pulled the rear hub apart, cleaned and lubed it and put it back together. The hub looks to be decent shape but the shell is pitted like he rim.
I repacked the front axle bearings as well.
I pulled the bottom bracket apart, there was no lube at all on the bearings. I cleaned it up, replaced the bearings, and repacked it with grease. The oil I shot into the oil port did nothing, that oil was just sitting on the bottom of the shell. The oil port looks to be worthless unless you put enough oil in there to fill the BB to the point where the oil was above the bearing cups. I also took both pedals apart and replaced those bearings as well. Both pedals were packed with dirt with no sign of any lube.
I still have the headset to do and while I'm at it I'll clean the bars and stem the same way I cleaned the cranks and rims.
The front rims is clearly marked 'Dunlop' the hub is unmarked but the axle had a 'U' in a shield stamped on the middle, most likely a German Union hub. . It doesn't look at all like any Raleigh hub I've seen before. That means that the front and rear hub are German, not English. I'm thinking that the wheels both likely came from a different bike at some point. The front hub isn't chrome, its just plain galvanized.
The Komet shell is stamped F&S with a tiny 'A' stamped in it, possibly a date code for the hub, but not likely for the bike.
The cranks and BB axle both have Sir Raleigh stamped in them.



Before


Rims, after rust removal


cranks


Lots of sidewall wear.
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Old 01-08-21, 12:08 AM
  #23692  
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After 60 years of so, no one can tell what parts were swapped on an old bike like that. Considering its condition, the original wheels likely got tossed for something better a long time ago. I see both a cable pulley and a cable clamp on he top tube. I've got an old Sears bike here that's got an F&S rear hub and a 'Made in West Germany front hub, but the rims look to be either Dunlop or Dunlop clones. Maybe they used a pair of old Sears wheels on that bike. I do know the old JC Higgins branded three speed hubs were basically SA clones with nearly all parts looking identical except the shell. It wouldn't be uncommon for another brand to use the same parts back then. SA hubs were used on just about every brand bike you can imagine, so the rims could be from anything. The EA1 size though is odd with German hubs. There's also the possibility that the front and rear rim both came from different bikes too.
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Old 01-08-21, 01:41 AM
  #23693  
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The one thing in the back of mind as I work on this bike is that I'm going to have a ton of hours into a bike that'll never be worth a fraction of the time I've got into it. The bike itself isn't bad, its just severely cosmetically challenged due to being left out in the weather for so long.
The wheels are no doubt not original to this bike, but the cranks, frame, fork and fenders are. For right now I'll ride it the way it is with these wheels, I'm not even wasting new tires on these rims. If I find a pair of suitable 32/40h rims, maybe I'll build it a proper set of wheels and give it some new rubber. The tires on it now are cracked badly but they don't seem to be fragile or likely to fall apart, at least not right away. The rear wheel is what I call functional trash, its rusty, pitted, the hub is only passable, it too is rusty, the races aren't perfect, and the spokes are rusty. The cleaner mix I used strips away the rust but I can't fix pitted chrome or worn parts. The pedals, although I did take them apart and replace the bearings are also well worn. I left them because they're original and 22 ball bearings are cheaper than a set of new old stock pedals, if they even still exist. The pedals appear to have had Sir Raleigh on each rubber block as well.
The big issue will be what to do with the fork and fenders. The rear fender is banged up pretty bad, I can hammer it out but it'll always look like a hammered out fender, the front fender has zero paint left, just rust. Its likely close to rusting through in a few spots. I do have a brand new pair of fenders that I have had for years, I bought them for a bike I had 40 years ago and never used them. They were bought from a dealer who had them on a discount rack way back when. They're plain black with pinstriping but no badge or logo.
The problem is they'd look awfully out of place next to the rest of this bike. The fork is also pretty much lacking paint, Any thing I do to remove the rust from the painted parts will leave it with lots of bare metal. Not removing the rust will let it progress and further damage what's left.
I don't want to paint the whole bike but maybe just the fork and front fender enough to preserve it?
I also thought about cleaning off the rust, wiping down the whole frame and just clear coating it as it sits to stop any further deterioration. Clear coat can also make it look too shiny if I'm not careful, but I've seen a few done that way that looked pretty good.
The paint on it now is so far gone that it rubs off when you touch it, so riding it the way it is with anything but black pants is out of the question. The paint rubs off like chalk off a chalk board.

To my surprise, every last nut, bold and screw so far has come off without much of a fight. Only one crank cotter put up a fight, I thought I was going to break my cotter press before it gave way. I went so far as taking a heat gun to the crank arm to warm it up as much as I dared to get it to let go of the cotter pin.
The pin came out but the threads are mushroomed every so slightly.
What is the thread diameter and pitch on the original cotter pins?

Also, so far, only the rear axle was metric, a few nuts were neither. The caliper nuts took a 7/16" wrench, an 11mm wouldn't fit. The stem bolt was also 7/16", but 7/16" was super tight. The rear axle nuts looked like 17mm or 11/16" but they were neither, and required an adjustable wrench. The seat post clamp is also odd, 13mm is too big, 1/2" won't fit.
Both bottom bracket cups have lock rings, but the right lock ring is thinner than the left.
The saddle has no real padding, just vinyl pulled over steel on a spring base. Surprisingly though its not uncomfortable at all once I got the angle set right.

I was actually expecting to see carnage inside the BB, it was making some strange creaking, cracking sounds every so often when I was riding it but it turned out to just be completely dry with lots of dirt. The pedals were missing both dust caps, I found two that sort of fit. The bearings were packed with dirt and grease, mostly dirt. The rear hub was the same way, lots of sand and dirt and almost no lube, only what I shot into the hub to free it up last week.
I dried the chain out again, soaked it in Evapo-rust from Harbor Freight and it cleaned up great. I oiled it up after removing all the rust and made sure every link was free.
The headset sounds about like the BB, its likely without any lube as well. It was frozen when I found the bike, I dripped some oil into the gaps in the headset last week and it sort of freed up over night, at least well enough to ride.

I did use grease in the rear hub, it had some black looking gunk in there that was being softened up by the oil I shot into the port last week. The hub would be better if I had a new right side bearing cone. The one on it has a chip out of it, its not directly in the path of rollers, but its close. My guess is ball bearing shattered and made its way out chipping the cone. It was missing three balls, one from each retainer. The bearings that were there all looked fine so I reused them. The back wheel will likely end up in the scrap pile once I find a better set of wheels for this.
The right chainstay also has an small 3/4" round threaded boss just behind the chain ring.

I did look at a parts bike over the weekend, it had a just okay set of wheels with an SA hub dated 9-59. Both rims had bad side wear and the hub condition was unknown. The guy wanted $75 for the bike, but there was almost nothing else worth saving on it. That one was a Branded 'Norman'. If the wheels were perfect, I'd have thought about it but I've already got $80 into this bike, (minus $50 I got for the WF speedometer).
I also looked at a Robin Hood, which was a 23" frame, on Sunday. Its wheels were mint clean, but dated 1961, the paint was dull but not worn, and nearly all the decals were falling off like dust. The bike though was in super condition mechanically belonging to a former bike shop owner. He wouldn't budge off $450 though. It was worth the drive and test ride though. The Robin Hood even had a dual leg center stand. Every bit of its chrome was perfect, the rims showed no wear, the tires were both Carlisle and like new. If I spend more than $250 to fix this bike, then I'm really going to regret not just buying the Hercules that's on CL. With the thought that maybe that seller would let the bike go for even less, I cold easily end up with more than that in this bike if I buy new tires, rims, hubs, etc.

If I get time tomorrow, the plan is to take the rest of the bike apart and get the headset and brake sorted.
I did find a used shifter in my old tool box, another rusty relic from many years ago, and a matching brake lever, so all I need is wheels , a shift cable, and a rear caliper. If this is going to be a three speed again.
After test riding that 23" Robin Hood, I sort of wish the Dunelt were a larger frame model but so far its not that bad with the seat raised up. If I can get the stem up higher or find a one that matches that's taller, I think I'll be good with this one though.

I am going to look at a BSA this weekend but I've not been able to get the guy to give me a price. Its supposedly in 'really nice condition'.
I'm not sure how much is the same from a BSA as on a Raleigh made Dunelt though?
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Old 01-08-21, 05:09 AM
  #23694  
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One former 3-speed and one former 7-speed. Now both Sturmey Archer 5-speeds.


1976 Gazelle Grand Tourist and the 1996 Koga-Miyata SilverAce on the right
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Old 01-08-21, 06:04 AM
  #23695  
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Originally Posted by 2fat2fly View Post
Also, so far, only the rear axle was metric, a few nuts were neither. The caliper nuts took a 7/16" wrench, an 11mm wouldn't fit. The stem bolt was also 7/16", but 7/16" was super tight. The rear axle nuts looked like 17mm or 11/16" but they were neither, and required an adjustable wrench. The seat post clamp is also odd, 13mm is too big, 1/2" won't fit.
A small set of Whitworth wrenches is probably a good investment if you are really going to get into older english bikes.
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Old 01-08-21, 09:41 AM
  #23696  
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Hub Threads; Hub Lock-up

I have a 1970 Raleigh Sports with perfect threads on the hub axles, as well as perfect "R" chromed nuts for the front; rear nuts are not damaged either. I had removed the front hex nuts and replaced with some old wing nuts I had laying about. I do not know what bike the wing nuts originally came from and they are not marked. I used them vice the original nuts due to transporting bike in a Mini Cooper and always having to remove the front wheel to store the bike. Unfortunately, I partially stripped one wing nut; still usable due to removing a washer and grabbing enough good threads. The wing nuts are alloy, and without any brass or steel threaded insert making threads easier to strip. I assumed they must have been from a fairly old race bike to be all aluminum. They fit the hub threads properly, not at all loosely, and certainly not too tight. I do not know what the hub threads are in order to ensure that when I replace them I order the correct parts for front (and rear); but not without inserts if alloy. Possible to bore out my alloy wing nuts and install correctly threaded inserts?? The hubs are original to the bike; rear hub is S-A "AW" dated 69 13; front hub Raleigh OE. Are both hubs Whitworth threads? Are there wing nuts available for that thread style if required? I have have other wing nuts (different sized; front and rear?) that fit early French hubs ('30s--'60s), and others fitting Italian hubs; but none will fit the English hubs (front or rear; tried on 1954 Hercules, 1965 Robin Hood, and 1970 Raleigh). All my other wing nuts are "steel", or have brass threaded inserts.

Quick side note: riding the "Hood" and hit a speed bump hard enough to bounce me off the saddle (though not off the bike), probably only 12-13 Kph. The rear hub locked up to forward motion. I got off bike and turned crank in reverse without issue but felt a little rough. I was able to get forward motion, but it locked up again and I partially popped a chain link. End of ride! I rode as a "foot scooter" on one pedal all the way back home. Any thoughts before I tear it apart, I have never had this happen. The speed bump definitely was part of the cause. I ride the Raleigh Sports with same model rear hub much harder and faster both on and off road (even used for a race with clipless pedals), and have never had anything like this regardless of the bumps and jumps. Granted the Sports hub has lower mileage (I assume) than the Hood.

Thanks!!

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Old 01-08-21, 01:37 PM
  #23697  
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Originally Posted by 2fat2fly View Post
I am going to look at a BSA this weekend but I've not been able to get the guy to give me a price. Its supposedly in 'really nice condition'.
I'm not sure how much is the same from a BSA as on a Raleigh made Dunelt though?
1957 is the last year of BSA bicycles before Raleigh bought them out. But a 1958 still has all the BSA logos on it.
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Old 01-08-21, 03:19 PM
  #23698  
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Originally Posted by HPL View Post
The hubs are original to the bike; rear hub is S-A "AW" dated 69 13; front hub Raleigh OE. Are both hubs Whitworth threads? Are there wing nuts available for that thread style if required? I have have other wing nuts (different sized; front and rear?) that fit early French hubs ('30s--'60s), and others fitting Italian hubs; but none will fit the English hubs (front or rear; tried on 1954 Hercules, 1965 Robin Hood, and 1970 Raleigh). All my other wing nuts are "steel", or have brass threaded inserts.

Thanks!!
I swear I've got at least 6 different gauges and thread pitches in my wing nut box. Close up pics of the hub, wingnut and an axle measurement may give up clues and perhaps I have one for you.
This is a good reason to not use them on the rear wheels. Too hard to get enough torque.
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Old 01-08-21, 06:28 PM
  #23699  
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
I swear I've got at least 6 different gauges and thread pitches in my wing nut box. Close up pics of the hub, wingnut and an axle measurement may give up clues and perhaps I have one for you.
This is a good reason to not use them on the rear wheels. Too hard to get enough torque.
I thought I had some thread gauges with my tap and dies, but they seem to be placed in other toolboxes (I fix British cars as well). I only was using the wing nuts on the front, and even then I only used them on a roadster because I could not imagine riding at high speed on a race bike and tightening the alloy nuts enough to prevent hub from loosening. On that Raleigh fork I have enough trouble removing the front wheel without any nuts on at all because of the 'lock-in" fork ends; I was not too worried about losing the wheel at the 'sedate' speeds I ride it at (still could crash though). I have not had the stripping issue on wing nuts utilizing inserts or solid steel which are used on my race and sport bikes with solid axles.

I will bring hub, good wing nut, and original hub nuts to a machine shop and have them measured. I thought someone might know what Raleigh (or Sturmey-Archer) was using at the time. I do not have that bike with as I was riding the Robin Hood, and although I have fit two roadsters in the mini, it is not something I like to do. Now w/o the the Robin Hood put of commission, it is time to get the Sports back onto the road. Back to using stock nuts.

Thanks for the assist; if you have a spare or two that match my threads (when determined), I would certainly compensate you. I would be more than grateful since my other option may be to have some fabricated to fit, or see if my alloy set can be fit with threaded inserts (both somewhat costly considering).

Last edited by HPL; 01-08-21 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 01-08-21, 06:47 PM
  #23700  
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Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
1957 is the last year of BSA bicycles before Raleigh bought them out. But a 1958 still has all the BSA logos on it.
Kind of not related but did other brands use BSA hubs and shifters? I seem to recall having an English bike many years ago with a BSA shifter and hub on it.
I owned the bike in the 70's, it was pretty old even then. I'm not sure what ever happened to that bike but I found the shifter a few months ago in a box in the garage.
I seem to remember the frame having a crack or something. I do remember that the headbadge was fairly ornate with a standing knight on it with a helmet similar to a Norman badge. I remember the headbadge being pretty messed up, the bike had a front basket that ate up the headbadge across the bottom. The knight was standing, and I remember the badge having sort of an oval shape.
The bike had Dunlop Endrick style rims, 26x1 3/8", John Bull brake pads, it was black with a wide chain guard. I also seem to remember the chain wheel spelling out the name but I can't for the life of me remember what the brand was. I had bought that bike at a flea market for cheap and just rode it till the frame cracked. At that age I wasn't too interested in what the bike was, it was just transportation. I used it,when it broke I got another bike. I left it at home when I moved away in my early 20's.
Many years later it bugs me that I can't remember what brand it was but I do know it had a BSA hub and shifter. The bike was likely from the 50's.
I've looked through many pics of head badges but haven't seen one that rings a bell yet. The head of the knight stood up above the main part of the headbadge, I remember it was always getting caught on things and bent.
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