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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 02-23-21, 07:34 PM
  #24001  
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Originally Posted by markk900
Edit: I see you were probably referring to using the proper tool and a strap wrench - that would probably work pretty darn well......
Yep, I don't have the proper tool, but I've debated making one from scrap metal with my welder, but all in all a punch has always done the job with so little hassle that I haven't taken the time to make a proper tool, if I end up with a hub that won't open up with a punch I'll make the tool... I have always dealt with hub that were in wheels though.
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Old 02-24-21, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
What do you guys use to dismount the ball ring on the later Sturmey AW hubs that don't have a vise flat on the shell? Older hubs let you use a vise on the shell and punch on the ball ring to open up the hub. But what are you using for the later hubs that lack vise flats on the shell and have the smaller notches on the ball ring? Is there a circle spanner or c-spanner that works for these? The punch method is more troublesome on these later hubs from the 1960s and 70s.
A number of years ago I found a few of these blocks, they appear to be cut from old yellow pine 2x4's with a hole in the middle the same diameter of the hub shell. Each one has a rubber strip with it. Clamping this in a vise holds the hub without damage.
I also have several wrenches that fit the various ball cup styles. One is an older OEM Sturmey Archer spanner wrench, one is branded 'Brampton' and fits the entire circumference of the typical two notch ball cup, and several others appear to be made from 3" pipe couplers which have been machined to fit like a socket over he ball cup, with a hole through the middle to put a bar through.
I found a socket at another shop that appears to have been a 4x4 hub socket that's been modified by grinding off two pins with a bit of metal taken out of the ID of the outer edge of the socket as well.








Not sure what the original application was but the socket has been modified slightly in both ID and the removal of two pins. This works well also when the hub is in the wheel, some flat spanners won't allow the pins to engage the ball cup without spoke interference.

Later OEM style for rounded indent ball cup.
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Old 02-24-21, 09:22 AM
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Toronto Update
Scanning some recent Kijiji listings

1954 Project bike listed at $115.00

70's 3 speed at $150.00

A good looking Superbe @ $250.00

Another 1954 listed at $395.00 (bit of a stretch)
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Old 02-24-21, 09:45 AM
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Those blocks are a good idea. I probably could make a set up using a compass, jig saw, and sander. I have a ball ring tool on-order with Gentleman Cyclist.
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Old 02-24-21, 11:51 AM
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The wood blocks work great, there's actually four sets of them, one for the AW and similar size hubs, one for the SW, pne for the Sears/JC Higgins hubs, and one for Shimano. The blocks are thin enough to not interfere with the oil port, but I tend to remove them just in case anyhow.
I rarely use the SA spanner, its faster and easier to just tap the ball ring loose with a brass bird's mouth punch. I only use the 145 wrench on the newer hubs with round indent. I've never had a hub that these didn't work on, even a few rusty disasters still came apart just fine.
To make life easier, I tend to break loose the ball rings while still in a wheel but lately I've run into quite a few loose hubs that need to be torn down for parts or rebuilt.
The wood block shown above has been in my tool box here now for over 20 years. I found them all at a very old bike shop that I cleaned out in the late 90's.
All four appear to have been made from one length of old true dimensional 2x4 lumber. When tightened around a hub, there's about a 1/4" gap in the seam. The hub shell should be clean so as not to scratch the chrome. The original rubber looked like a piece of heavy inner tube, I've since replaced the rubber a few times with a piece of EPDM roofing rubber. I usually just wrap the rubber strip around the hub and place the blocks over the hub and tighten it down in a huge vise. The rubber is on both sides of the hub.
I've got a similar tool that's made from hardwood that's basically the same thing but the halves are secured with two bolts and two wingnuts and the one end of the wood is about 3ft long, eliminating the need for a big vise.
Its loaned out right now, but here's a rough idea of what it looks like.


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Old 02-24-21, 02:27 PM
  #24006  
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Originally Posted by barnfind
The wood blocks work great, there's actually four sets of them, one for the AW and similar size hubs, one for the SW, pne for the Sears/JC Higgins hubs, and one for Shimano. The blocks are thin enough to not interfere with the oil port, but I tend to remove them just in case anyhow.
I rarely use the SA spanner, its faster and easier to just tap the ball ring loose with a brass bird's mouth punch. I only use the 145 wrench on the newer hubs with round indent. I've never had a hub that these didn't work on, even a few rusty disasters still came apart just fine.
To make life easier, I tend to break loose the ball rings while still in a wheel but lately I've run into quite a few loose hubs that need to be torn down for parts or rebuilt.
The wood block shown above has been in my tool box here now for over 20 years. I found them all at a very old bike shop that I cleaned out in the late 90's.
All four appear to have been made from one length of old true dimensional 2x4 lumber. When tightened around a hub, there's about a 1/4" gap in the seam. The hub shell should be clean so as not to scratch the chrome. The original rubber looked like a piece of heavy inner tube, I've since replaced the rubber a few times with a piece of EPDM roofing rubber. I usually just wrap the rubber strip around the hub and place the blocks over the hub and tighten it down in a huge vise. The rubber is on both sides of the hub.
I've got a similar tool that's made from hardwood that's basically the same thing but the halves are secured with two bolts and two wingnuts and the one end of the wood is about 3ft long, eliminating the need for a big vise.
Its loaned out right now, but here's a rough idea of what it looks like.


Always good to see practical solutions to problems like this.
No computers needed.
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Old 02-24-21, 03:26 PM
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That '54 looks interesting, because I think it's earlier than the license plate. The Dyno has a bakelite face , the rims look unblemished (stainless?) and it looks like it might have the rare 3 pin crank although the pics are poor. Those cranks appeared on the early 50's Super Sports.
Not saying it's worth $395 but it's still worth a look-see if there wasn't a bloody pandemic.

Originally Posted by gster
Toronto Update
Scanning some recent Kijiji listings

1954 Project bike listed at $115.00

70's 3 speed at $150.00

A good looking Superbe @ $250.00

Another 1954 listed at $395.00 (bit of a stretch)
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Old 02-24-21, 03:55 PM
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Picked up this Raleigh Sport today for just under $100. Bike seems to be in good shape. No rust except a little on the chrome. A few small dents in the fenders and paint scuffs on the frame but nothing major. Cleaned up pretty good. Will need new tires/tubes and brake pads obviously but otherwise I took it out for about a 20 minute ride after cleaning it up and rides really nice. Shifts like butter. Only negative is the Brooks, which seems to be original is ripped pretty bad. It's still actually pretty comfortable but from what I've read a rip at the rivet means this seat is pretty much done for. Which is a shame because besides that big rip the leather seems to be in nice shape.







Also, can anyone tell me what these things are, I'm brand new to the English 3 Speed game.
1. Black strap around the rear hub.


2. This small bracket or whatever attached to the front axle.

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Old 02-24-21, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by partyanimal
Picked up this Raleigh Sport today for just under $100. Bike seems to be in good shape. No rust except a little on the chrome. A few small dents in the fenders and paint scuffs on the frame but nothing major. Cleaned up pretty good. Will need new tires/tubes and brake pads obviously but otherwise I took it out for about a 20 minute ride after cleaning it up and rides really nice. Shifts like butter. Only negative is the Brooks, which seems to be original is ripped pretty bad. It's still actually pretty comfortable but from what I've read a rip at the rivet means this seat is pretty much done for. Which is a shame because besides that big rip the leather seems to be in nice shape.












Also, can anyone tell me what these things are, I'm brand new to the English 3 Speed game.

1. Black strap around the rear hub.




2. This small bracket or whatever attached to the front axle.


Nice find and a great price.

Looks like it might be a Made in Canada version.

There could be a small sticker on the downtube near the BB.

The colour is a bit different than English versions.

I have the same bike and it's my go to work bike.
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Old 02-24-21, 04:43 PM
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That little bracket on the front axle is the remains of a Lucas odometer.
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Old 02-24-21, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
That little bracket on the front axle is the remains of a Lucas odometer.
Thanks, thought it might be something like that.
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Old 02-24-21, 05:17 PM
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The leather strap on the rear hub is a hub shiner. It mops up oil, and makes the hub shiny. They used to be the thing to have back in the day.
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Old 02-25-21, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
The leather strap on the rear hub is a hub shiner. It mops up oil, and makes the hub shiny. They used to be the thing to have back in the day.
They also do a great job of wearing away the chrome finish when they get dirty.
I've been sorting through several buckets of old used SA hubs here from a clean out, and nearly every one that had a hub shiner has its chrome worn away or dulled where the thing sat and rubbed the hub mile after mile for years on end.
I'm seeing a few that were leather, a few just cheap plastic with a reflector and nut holding the ends together, and even a few with just a piece of rope tied around the hub with a knot for weight.
The best hub shells I'm finding are those that were left all covered in grease over the years, once you soak off the dried up grease and dirt, the chrome is like new underneath almost every time. Just the same, those that were kept polished and clean are pitted with rust.
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Old 02-25-21, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by markk900
JIMBO53 Really nice bike and will clean up very nicely. As an ex-owner of a BSA motorcycle would have loved a bike like that.
Here' s my pair of BSA's, Mark...




Peter
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Old 02-26-21, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman
That '54 looks interesting, because I think it's earlier than the license plate. The Dyno has a bakelite face , the rims look unblemished (stainless?) and it looks like it might have the rare 3 pin crank although the pics are poor. Those cranks appeared on the early 50's Super Sports.
Not saying it's worth $395 but it's still worth a look-see if there wasn't a bloody pandemic.
Normally I would have a look but I'm still hiding out in Mexico .....
I did find a good supply of rod and lever brake pads.
10 pesos each!
They had a full case of them.
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Old 02-26-21, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
Normally I would have a look but I'm still hiding out in Mexico .....
I did find a good supply of rod and lever brake pads.10 pesos each!
They had a full case of them.
gster & Lefty

gster was a cyclist, boys
His bike was made of polished steel
He searched for parts around the world
To fix the bikes he had to heal

gster met his match, you know
On the deserts down in Mexico
Nobody heard his cryin' words
Oh, but that's the way it goes

All the LBS's say
They could have conned him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose

Lefty, he can't braze the tubes
All night long like he used to
The parts that gster bought down there
Ended up in Lefty's lair

The day they lay poor gster low
Lefty split for Ohio
Where he got the parts to go
There ain't nobody knows

All the LBS's say
They could have conned him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose

Mechanics tell how gster fell
And Lefty's livin' in cheap hotels
The desert's quiet, bike shop's sold
And so the story ends, we're told
gster needs your prayers, it's true
Save a few for Lefty, too
He sold the shop - he had to do
And now he's growin' old

All the LBS's say
They could have conned him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose
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Old 02-26-21, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dweenk
gster & Lefty

gster was a cyclist, boys
His bike was made of polished steel
He searched for parts around the world
To fix the bikes he had to heal

gster met his match, you know
On the deserts down in Mexico
Nobody heard his cryin' words
Oh, but that's the way it goes

All the LBS's say
They could have conned him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose

Lefty, he can't braze the tubes
All night long like he used to
The parts that gster bought down there
Ended up in Lefty's lair

The day they lay poor gster low
Lefty split for Ohio
Where he got the parts to go
There ain't nobody knows

All the LBS's say
They could have conned him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose

Mechanics tell how gster fell
And Lefty's livin' in cheap hotels
The desert's quiet, bike shop's sold
And so the story ends, we're told
gster needs your prayers, it's true
Save a few for Lefty, too
He sold the shop - he had to do
And now he's growin' old

All the LBS's say
They could have conned him any day
They only let him slip away
Out of kindness, I suppose
Thank you for that.
Clever and thoughtful.
One of my favourites.
Townes Van Zandt version.
Here's my $25.00 Mexican guitar
customised with dinosaur and magic pony stickers




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Old 02-26-21, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
Thank you for that.
Clever and thoughtful.
One of my favourites.
Townes Van Zandt version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zprRZ2wFQD4
Here's my $25.00 Mexican guitar
customised with dinosaur and magic pony stickers
So Townes did that first you say? Go figure.
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Old 02-26-21, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for that clip. I miss videos(sorry, films) shot in Super 16. I used to do scratch removal on 16 mm before HD reared it's bulldozer head.

Last edited by clubman; 02-26-21 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 02-26-21, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gster
Nice find and a great price.

Looks like it might be a Made in Canada version.

There could be a small sticker on the downtube near the BB.

The colour is a bit different than English versions.

I have the same bike and it's my go to work bike.
Made in Canada Sports will have a serial# starting with R. Most Canadian built Sports I have come across were not equipped leather saddles or lamp brackets. Good looking bike though!

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Old 02-27-21, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by gster
Toronto Update
Scanning some recent Kijiji listings


Another 1954 listed at $395.00 (bit of a stretch)
Originally Posted by clubman
That '54 looks interesting, because I think it's earlier than the license plate. The Dyno has a bakelite face , the rims look unblemished (stainless?) and it looks like it might have the rare 3 pin crank although the pics are poor. Those cranks appeared on the early 50's Super Sports.
Not saying it's worth $395 but it's still worth a look-see if there wasn't a bloody pandemic.
This is cool. Late '40s Super Sports? I think they only made them a couple of years before the Reynolds 531 models came along. Looks like either an AG or FG hub in the back and the lamps are all there as well. Too small for me, but that blue is tops. Since I have a '50 and my wife a '56, my years of hunting these down are over, but I perk up whenever they come out of the woodwork. This one needs some time and elbow grease by the looks of things.
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Old 02-27-21, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
Thanks for that clip. I miss videos(sorry, films) shot in Super 16. I used to do scratch removal on 16 mm before HD reared it's bulldozer head.
Did you work at that little place on Portland Street?
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Old 02-27-21, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
This is cool. Late '40s Super Sports? I think they only made them a couple of years before the Reynolds 531 models came along. Looks like either an AG or FG hub in the back and the lamps are all there as well. Too small for me, but that blue is tops. Since I have a '50 and my wife a '56, my years of hunting these down are over, but I perk up whenever they come out of the woodwork. This one needs some time and elbow grease by the looks of things.
So perhaps the price is not out of line?
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Old 02-27-21, 04:37 PM
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The same thing happened to my B72, soon after I bought the bike. The saddle was the 1961 original. A chunk fell off when I tried to attach a saddle bag.

Originally Posted by partyanimal
Only negative is the Brooks, which seems to be original is ripped pretty bad. It's still actually pretty comfortable but from what I've read a rip at the rivet means this seat is pretty much done for. Which is a shame because besides that big rip the leather seems to be in nice shape.
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Old 02-27-21, 04:40 PM
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1962 Rudge Sports with brand-new, unused Brooks Flyer S saddle and Carradice Pendle saddlebag




Last edited by 1989Pre; 02-27-21 at 04:45 PM.
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