For the love of English 3 speeds...
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manhattan & Woodstock NY
Posts: 2,745
Bikes: 1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, early '70s Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Raleigh International, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1970 Raleigh Professional Mk1
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked 2,924 Times
in
978 Posts
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,597
Bikes: Too many 3-speeds, Jones Plus LWB
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 265 Times
in
119 Posts
The All British Cycle Event (ABCE) is this weekend. Gather at Merlin's Rest (Minneapolis) tomorrom morning at 9:AM.
Sunday is the swap meet, Gravity Race and Show and Lie
I plan to bring my '54 Bates, '61 Sports, a nice cheap Superbe anda bunch of parts...
Sunday is the swap meet, Gravity Race and Show and Lie
I plan to bring my '54 Bates, '61 Sports, a nice cheap Superbe anda bunch of parts...
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,571
Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1028 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times
in
287 Posts
Barred @ Velocipedesalon
"no date code" sturmey-archer "aw" hub
After some more research and getting advice and insight from BF members, l have determined the year of my "AW" hub. Although some early S-A hubs were without a date code stamped on them, there are a few from the 40's and 50's that were also sans date codes. My particular hub is clearly stamped with "AW", but no date. This model was made only during WW2, 1941-42, and is identifiable by the left side "ball cup" having a factory black painted finish (ensure that it has factory paint, looks almost anodized), the patina will be obvious. Also, it will have a threaded on drive sprocket, not splined! Apparently, there is another group of hubs from the 50's without a date code, but having a silver finish on left cup with a splined sprocket mount. My hub is on a Raleigh Sports Tourist having a serial number (J26399) interpolated to be from 1930-1933, so it is not original to the frame if the frame is indeed from the 30's. If anyone has a 1941-1942 bike with a similar hub I would be interested to know for further confirmation.
I am also still trying to confirm the year(s) of manufacture for the "DYNOHUB" on the same bike. I have yet to see an example of this front hub. If someone has this hub original to their frame, I again would be interested in order to determine my hub's vintage. My hub has no markings in the center portion where the terminal lugs protrude. Markings appear on the "middle" ring, which appears to have been factory painted silver with a black band incorporating silver print and "diamonds". The main hub "shell" is chrome finish with "32" (spoke count) stamped on the left side.
One terminal lug post is broken. Is this repairable? I have not yet dismantled to determine the viability of repairing the hub.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
I am also still trying to confirm the year(s) of manufacture for the "DYNOHUB" on the same bike. I have yet to see an example of this front hub. If someone has this hub original to their frame, I again would be interested in order to determine my hub's vintage. My hub has no markings in the center portion where the terminal lugs protrude. Markings appear on the "middle" ring, which appears to have been factory painted silver with a black band incorporating silver print and "diamonds". The main hub "shell" is chrome finish with "32" (spoke count) stamped on the left side.
One terminal lug post is broken. Is this repairable? I have not yet dismantled to determine the viability of repairing the hub.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 578
Bikes: 1951 Sun Wasp, 1953 Armstrong Consort, 1975 Raleigh Competition, 1980 Apollo Gran Sport, 1988 Schwinn Voyageur, Mystery MTB
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 457 Times
in
190 Posts
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times
in
85 Posts
After some more research and getting advice and insight from BF members, l have determined the year of my "AW" hub. Although some early S-A hubs were without a date code stamped on them, there are a few from the 40's and 50's that were also sans date codes. My particular hub is clearly stamped with "AW", but no date. This model was made only during WW2, 1941-42, and is identifiable by the left side "ball cup" having a factory black painted finish (ensure that it has factory paint, looks almost anodized), the patina will be obvious. Also, it will have a threaded on drive sprocket, not splined! Apparently, there is another group of hubs from the 50's without a date code, but having a silver finish on left cup with a splined sprocket mount. My hub is on a Raleigh Sports Tourist having a serial number (J26399) interpolated to be from 1930-1933, so it is not original to the frame if the frame is indeed from the 30's. If anyone has a 1941-1942 bike with a similar hub I would be interested to know for further confirmation.
I am also still trying to confirm the year(s) of manufacture for the "DYNOHUB" on the same bike. I have yet to see an example of this front hub. If someone has this hub original to their frame, I again would be interested in order to determine my hub's vintage. My hub has no markings in the center portion where the terminal lugs protrude. Markings appear on the "middle" ring, which appears to have been factory painted silver with a black band incorporating silver print and "diamonds". The main hub "shell" is chrome finish with "32" (spoke count) stamped on the left side.
One terminal lug post is broken. Is this repairable? I have not yet dismantled to determine the viability of repairing the hub.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
I am also still trying to confirm the year(s) of manufacture for the "DYNOHUB" on the same bike. I have yet to see an example of this front hub. If someone has this hub original to their frame, I again would be interested in order to determine my hub's vintage. My hub has no markings in the center portion where the terminal lugs protrude. Markings appear on the "middle" ring, which appears to have been factory painted silver with a black band incorporating silver print and "diamonds". The main hub "shell" is chrome finish with "32" (spoke count) stamped on the left side.
One terminal lug post is broken. Is this repairable? I have not yet dismantled to determine the viability of repairing the hub.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
__________________
Inflate Hard
Inflate Hard
Barred @ Velocipedesalon
If you go back a page and check out the 1940 catalog page I posted you'll see an image of the Dynohub in the lower left corner. It matches yours exactly. I never noticed the difference before. So all I can say with certainty is that sometime between 1940 and 1951, they redesigned it. I don't know how to deal with the broken pole. You are not supposed to remove the magnet so there's no way to get at it from behind. Maybe it could be drilled and tapped from the front. Splined cogs on AW hubs started around 1952-3. My 51 has a threaded driver. There's a good rebuild video on youtube for Dynohubs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SnEkpU0YeU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SnEkpU0YeU
Taking a quick look at the men's frame shows it to be a different model; fenders are different, head tube lugs are not "fishtail" cut-out, "bolt-on" seatstays, serial # AD99185, but another no date "AW" hub, no front "dyno". Photos forthcoming.
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times
in
85 Posts
Thanks again for your help Big Chief, I had not taken a close look at that image of the hub, nor is my viewing device very good for seeing details; not good for taking photos either as apparent by my previous posts. It could very well be that both wheels assy's were replaced at the same time and are of the same vintage. I would still like to see a photo image if someone has one referenced to a known frame/year.
Taking a quick look at the men's frame shows it to be a different model; fenders are different, head tube lugs are not "fishtail" cut-out, "bolt-on" seatstays, serial # AD99185, but another no date "AW" hub, no front "dyno". Photos forthcoming.
Taking a quick look at the men's frame shows it to be a different model; fenders are different, head tube lugs are not "fishtail" cut-out, "bolt-on" seatstays, serial # AD99185, but another no date "AW" hub, no front "dyno". Photos forthcoming.
__________________
Inflate Hard
Inflate Hard
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
SA hubs in 1933,34 and 35? had no date stamps. Before that they were stamped K. The AW- 3 was introduced in 1936. K went back to before WW1 and up until 1914 they were stamped with an X. It is unlikely (but not impossible) that the hub is older than the frame as frames go forever but hubs require some care to keep going for 80 years. I found the Raleigh frame serial # archive very accurate. Sunbeam as well. Rudge is completely useless but the pictorial catalogue for Rudge is probably the best.
Last edited by Johno59; 09-15-19 at 03:37 AM.
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
After some more research and getting advice and insight from BF members, l have determined the year of my "AW" hub. Although some early S-A hubs were without a date code stamped on them, there are a few from the 40's and 50's that were also sans date codes. My particular hub is clearly stamped with "AW", but no date. This model was made only during WW2, 1941-42, and is identifiable by the left side "ball cup" having a factory black painted finish (ensure that it has factory paint, looks almost anodized), the patina will be obvious. Also, it will have a threaded on drive sprocket, not splined! Apparently, there is another group of hubs from the 50's without a date code, but having a silver finish on left cup with a splined sprocket mount. My hub is on a Raleigh Sports Tourist having a serial number (J26399) interpolated to be from 1930-1933, so it is not original to the frame if the frame is indeed from the 30's. If anyone has a 1941-1942 bike with a similar hub I would be interested to know for further confirmation.
I am also still trying to confirm the year(s) of manufacture for the "DYNOHUB" on the same bike. I have yet to see an example of this front hub. If someone has this hub original to their frame, I again would be interested in order to determine my hub's vintage. My hub has no markings in the center portion where the terminal lugs protrude. Markings appear on the "middle" ring, which appears to have been factory painted silver with a black band incorporating silver print and "diamonds". The main hub "shell" is chrome finish with "32" (spoke count) stamped on the left side.
One terminal lug post is broken. Is this repairable? I have not yet dismantled to determine the viability of repairing the hub.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
I am also still trying to confirm the year(s) of manufacture for the "DYNOHUB" on the same bike. I have yet to see an example of this front hub. If someone has this hub original to their frame, I again would be interested in order to determine my hub's vintage. My hub has no markings in the center portion where the terminal lugs protrude. Markings appear on the "middle" ring, which appears to have been factory painted silver with a black band incorporating silver print and "diamonds". The main hub "shell" is chrome finish with "32" (spoke count) stamped on the left side.
One terminal lug post is broken. Is this repairable? I have not yet dismantled to determine the viability of repairing the hub.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,869
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times
in
505 Posts
Why can’t the AW handle bigger tooth counts? Does this limitation also apply to the FM, FG, and FW?
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
270 Posts
I have a Sprite w/ the 5 speed hub.
I added the double throttle shifters.
I find if the bike sits for awhile w/ both shifters on the "off" position,
i.e both forward, the secondary shifter will not engage easily.
The bike now rests with the primary "off" i.e. in third and the secondary
shifter engaged.
Seems to keep the hub freed up.
I added the double throttle shifters.
I find if the bike sits for awhile w/ both shifters on the "off" position,
i.e both forward, the secondary shifter will not engage easily.
The bike now rests with the primary "off" i.e. in third and the secondary
shifter engaged.
Seems to keep the hub freed up.
I can certainly appreciate the stock equipment, but I do much prefer the trigger shifters for functionality. I'm going to go full resto-mod on my sprite build so there will be many parts that are not stock when I'm done, so not having the stock shifters is fine with me.
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
The AW 9 (9 = 1939) are screw on sprocket, so any size is possible. On my 1903 Sunbeam I put on a SA 4 speed, a 3 speed freewheel, a Resilion derailleur and the original 2 speed direct dive. All up 24 speed.
Last edited by Johno59; 09-15-19 at 12:15 PM.
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
270 Posts
Sturmey recommends no lower than a 2:1 ratio, 48/24, but sheldon brown talks about using cassette cogs larger than 24 to get lower gearing. I'm sure you can go lower than 2:1 if you are a lighter guy, I'd bet you can go way lower than 2:1 if you just avoid standing and pedaling in 1st gear on steep hills.
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
I have a Sprite w/ the 5 speed hub.
I added the double throttle shifters.
I find if the bike sits for awhile w/ both shifters on the "off" position,
i.e both forward, the secondary shifter will not engage easily.
The bike now rests with the primary "off" i.e. in third and the secondary
shifter engaged.
Seems to keep the hub freed up.
I added the double throttle shifters.
I find if the bike sits for awhile w/ both shifters on the "off" position,
i.e both forward, the secondary shifter will not engage easily.
The bike now rests with the primary "off" i.e. in third and the secondary
shifter engaged.
Seems to keep the hub freed up.
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
112 geared SA
Sturmey recommends no lower than a 2:1 ratio, 48/24, but sheldon brown talks about using cassette cogs larger than 24 to get lower gearing. I'm sure you can go lower than 2:1 if you are a lighter guy, I'd bet you can go way lower than 2:1 if you just avoid standing and pedaling in 1st gear on steep hills.
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,146
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3804 Post(s)
Liked 6,643 Times
in
2,602 Posts
I haven't quite gone that over the top, but I did confirm that a 5-speed freewheel fits fine on a threaded driver with a 6 1/4" axle (the longer one to fit in a 120mm-spaced rear end). Didn't see the need to put that in actual use, however.
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 852
Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
185 Posts
15 speed works in East Anglia
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,571
Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1028 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times
in
287 Posts
Six Speed Conversion Sh*t Show
What I thought would be a simple project has
been somewhat frustrating but there is a light
at the end of the tunnel....
I set the bike up yesterday and bought a 3/32" 10 speed chain assuming the 1/2" pitch
would be compatible.
It wasn't.
It binds on the chain ring and refused to engage the smaller cog..
I'd had enough and let it be.
Today I added a couple of washers to the derailleur rollers to expand
the width to accept a standard 1/8" chain.
All seemed good.
Until I installed the master link which now
catches on the derailleur cage
I'm not dissuaded. The 3/32" chain was only $15.00 and the
1/8" chain was cobbled together from a couple I had lying around.
Tomorrow's another day......
What I thought would be a simple project has
been somewhat frustrating but there is a light
at the end of the tunnel....
I set the bike up yesterday and bought a 3/32" 10 speed chain assuming the 1/2" pitch
would be compatible.
It wasn't.
It binds on the chain ring and refused to engage the smaller cog..
I'd had enough and let it be.
Today I added a couple of washers to the derailleur rollers to expand
the width to accept a standard 1/8" chain.
All seemed good.
Until I installed the master link which now
catches on the derailleur cage
I'm not dissuaded. The 3/32" chain was only $15.00 and the
1/8" chain was cobbled together from a couple I had lying around.
Tomorrow's another day......
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,653
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 106 Times
in
80 Posts
If you use to low of gears on a SA AW you can put more power input into the hub than the 4 small planetary gears inside the hub can handle and they break in half. As some one like me who grew up riding 3 speed in the 1960s I got good at replacing them. Roger
On the road
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 2,171
Bikes: Old Schwinns and old Raleighs
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked 847 Times
in
323 Posts
Phillips, Schwinn, and Raleigh 3-speeds.
__________________
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
Classic American and British Roadsters, Utility Bikes, and Sporting Bikes (1935-1979):
https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/
Likes For SirMike1983:
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times
in
85 Posts
Six Speed Conversion Sh*t Show
What I thought would be a simple project has
been somewhat frustrating but there is a light
at the end of the tunnel....
I set the bike up yesterday and bought a 3/32" 10 speed chain assuming the 1/2" pitch
would be compatible.
It wasn't.
It binds on the chain ring and refused to engage the smaller cog..
I'd had enough and let it be.
Today I added a couple of washers to the derailleur rollers to expand
the width to accept a standard 1/8" chain.
All seemed good.
Until I installed the master link which now
catches on the derailleur cage
I'm not dissuaded. The 3/32" chain was only $15.00 and the
1/8" chain was cobbled together from a couple I had lying around.
Tomorrow's another day......
What I thought would be a simple project has
been somewhat frustrating but there is a light
at the end of the tunnel....
I set the bike up yesterday and bought a 3/32" 10 speed chain assuming the 1/2" pitch
would be compatible.
It wasn't.
It binds on the chain ring and refused to engage the smaller cog..
I'd had enough and let it be.
Today I added a couple of washers to the derailleur rollers to expand
the width to accept a standard 1/8" chain.
All seemed good.
Until I installed the master link which now
catches on the derailleur cage
I'm not dissuaded. The 3/32" chain was only $15.00 and the
1/8" chain was cobbled together from a couple I had lying around.
Tomorrow's another day......
__________________
Inflate Hard
Inflate Hard
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,571
Bikes: 1971 Hercules, 1978 Raleigh Superbe, 1978 Raleigh Tourist, 1964 Glider 3 Speed, 1967 Raleigh Sprite 5 Speed, 1968 Hercules AMF 3 Speed, 1972 Raleigh Superbe, 1976 Raleigh Superbe, 1957 Flying Pigeon, 1967 Dunelt 3 Speed
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1028 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times
in
287 Posts
I've done it before....